Under the new Biden EV credit proposal, will the Cybertruck qualify for Federal Tax Credit?

cvalue13

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I thought the clause for the " source of battery minerals " was supposed to be implemented -incrementally- in the coming years to 'steer' manufactures to slowly get the minerals locally?
As of 1/1/23, that incremental slope begins at 40% for minerals sourcing from the US or trade-countries (and 50% for battery componentry assemblage).

But completely seperate from the above, perhaps you’re also thinking of the prohibitions on either batteries whatsoever manufactured or assembled by a “foreign entity of concern,” effective with respect to vehicles placed in service after December 31, 2023, or any battery utilizing any critical minerals "extracted, processed, or recycled" by any "foreign entity of concern" which prohibition takes effect with respect to vehicles placed in service after December 31, 2024. These are complete prohibitions, with no on-ramp of %’s other than the 2023 and 2024 triggers.

FYI, a “foreign entity of concern” includes among other things, any foreign entity (company, country, or otherwise) that is "owned by, controlled by, or subject to the jurisdiction or direction of a government of a foreign country that is a covered nation" (i.e., China, Russia, Iran, or North Korea).

These prohibitions mirror other similar trade prohibitions emanating from the national security wing of the government, rather than the IRS. And similar to how those prohibitions are monitored in other national security contexts, things can become rather cloak-and-dagger regarding details of enforcement, and far less pragmatic than say the IRS’s rule-making.

Given the breadth of Chinese (and Russian) holdings - including even fractional indirect investments in domestic companies - across the sector, I find these near-term prohibitions to be the most likely source of challenge (poison pill?) in the IRA.
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Jhodgesatmb

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I am curious, there's talk about Tesla build a factory in Canada to service the east coast.

Would it still get the credit ?
Even if they did it would take longer to get that factory up and running than we want. They are not talking about building Cybertrucks there. They might source some lithium from Canada and do some of the processing there. Then they could do final processing at the GigaAustin battery cathode plant.
 

Jhodgesatmb

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My plan is to assume there will be no rebate for me and be overjoyed if there is one (of any kind). It is unlikely that the tri-motor with FSD will come in under $80K with inflation. The original price was $69,900 plus $7K for FSD or $76,900. At 15% inflation alone the price would hit $80K w/o FSD.

Of course, if they mess with the trims who knows, but we are talking massive speculation for a rebate that might amount to sales tax at that price.
 

rr6013

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The original price was $69,900 plus $7K for FSD or $76,900. At 15% inflation alone the price would hit $80K w/o FSD.
Remember Tesla stipulated order pricing for reservations knowing it would deliver years later!

Tesla had to have locked-in costs for raw materials, supply chains and vendors to be able to take reservation ”on offer”. Not 100% asserting all Cybertruck pricing was immune to inflation but a non-zero % had to be.

Tesla would open itself up to “fraud in the inducement” were it to increase the Cybertruck reservations 15% across the board.
 


rr6013

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for refundable deposits?
I understood that the pricing offer was an inducement for my patience to wait years to take actual delivery of a Cybertruck.

If it is not legal to be induced as a member in a class of reservations that number 1M+, then you have described a cartoon that Tesla performed “Live”. My bad.
 

Jhodgesatmb

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Remember Tesla stipulated order pricing for reservations knowing it would deliver years later!

Tesla had to have locked-in costs for raw materials, supply chains and vendors to be able to take reservation ”on offer”. Not 100% asserting all Cybertruck pricing was immune to inflation but a non-zero % had to be.

Tesla would open itself up to “fraud in the inducement” were it to increase the Cybertruck reservations 15% across the board.
True and I agree with you.. I was just talking about the rebate and how much I will try to save up for to pay for the truck and taxes (and registration). I never expected less than $85K out the door and that is what I have been trying to scrounge up. Even if $7500 were to appear that would only pay the taxes (if that). As I said, I am better off psychologically assuming that no rebates will come my way.
 

cvalue13

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Limited exposure doesn't mean there's not criminal or civil penalties atop that.

-Crissa

I understood that the pricing offer was an inducement for my patience to wait years to take actual delivery of a Cybertruck.

If it is not legal to be induced as a member in a class of reservations that number 1M+, then you have described a cartoon that Tesla performed “Live”. My bad.


(In all playfulness of tone) if y’all went to law school, you took it way too seriously :ROFLMAO:

(in more serious tone) exactly what legal consequences do you genuinely (?!) believe are judgment-prone in an instance that Tesla either:

(1) never delivers a single CT, or

(2) delivers to you a CT for a price that is 120% of the MSRP described in the moments before you paid a $100 deposit?

Maybe I haven’t thought about this long enough, or don’t appreciate some state-specific version of a DTPA statute, but my first blush impression is …. Huh?
 


Ogre

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I don’t think the legal aspects mean a ton one way or the other.

What are the repercussions of screwing 1 million of your biggest fans?

Ask R.J. Scaringe.
 

cvalue13

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What are the repercussions of screwing 1 million of your biggest fans?
true depending on the threshold for “screwing” - but Tesla’s “biggest fans” have happily and repeatedly endured greater offenses than:

to increase the Cybertruck reservations 15% across the board
similar to what you’ve said recently, I’d give benefit of the doubt that features will be delivered on, but timing and price?

this seems to me one of those scenarios where, of three variables, you get to choose a maximum of 1 constant
 

Ogre

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true depending on the threshold for “screwing” - but Tesla’s “biggest fans” have happily and repeatedly endured greater offenses than: (15% increase across the board)
Have they? I’d love some examples. I guess FSD? Even that has been less than 15% of the price of the vehicle in most cases. FWIW, even that is not “Happily accepted”. There is a LOT of bad-will around FSD promises. It is arguably one of the biggest pain points for Tesla owners.

Biggest price bump I’ve seen was about 5% on the Model X launch and they sort-of compensated for that with a FSD discount and a significantly better vehicle.

But wires crossed a bit. I’d thought you were talking about more than 15% increases. I do think people would accept something along those lines or smaller. Bigger increases not so much.
 

cvalue13

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Biggest price bump I’ve seen was about 5% on the Model X launch and they sort-of compensated for that with a FSD discount and a significantly better vehicle.
You know the history far better than I, but I thought - in contrast to announcement of CT - at announcement of X they both (1) didn’t state pricing, and (2) required a material (eg $5K) deposit? Even then, didn’t they only deliver like 5-6,000 units in 2016?

You’re right of course that what people take offense to varies widely, so there’s no one thing to point at as “more” offensive let downs compared to failing to deliver on pricing after what could be as much of a 4-6 year wait, a pandemic, etc., as mitigating circumstances.

But for some “biggest fans”, things qualifying as more irritating than a 15% price hike after 6 years *might* include:

• the waiting 6 years! (Show me a critical mass of super fans that wouldn’t pay 20% over MSRP to have one tomorrow )

• in 2017, placing a $50k-$250K deposit for a “2020” roadster

• the substance of the DFEH’s lawsuit(s) against Tesla, paired with the >$200MM in settlements paid out for related claims, with Musk meanwhile tweeting at black people to “be thick skinned”

I would think it uncontroversial to say that in virtue of its many great features, Tesla’s fans are more than willing and used to forgiving (or ignoring) all kinds of things!
 

Ogre

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You know the history far better than I, but I thought - in contrast to announcement of CT - at announcement of X they both (1) didn’t state pricing, and (2) required a material (eg $5K) deposit? Even then, didn’t they only deliver like 5-6,000 units in 2016?

You’re right of course that what people take offense to varies widely, so there’s no one thing to point at as “more” offensive let downs compared to failing to deliver on pricing after what could be as much of a 4-6 year wait, a pandemic, etc., as mitigating circumstances.

But for some “biggest fans”, things qualifying as more irritating than a 15% price hike after 6 years *might* include:

• the waiting 6 years! (Show me a critical mass of super fans that wouldn’t pay 20% over MSRP to have one tomorrow )

• in 2017, placing a $50k-$250K deposit for a “2020” roadster

• the substance of the DFEH’s lawsuit(s) against Tesla, paired with the >$200MM in settlements paid out for related claims, with Musk meanwhile tweeting at black people to “be thick skinned”

I would think it uncontroversial to say that in virtue of its many great features, Tesla’s fans are more than willing and used to forgiving (or ignoring) all kinds of things!
You are kind of all over the place here.

Tesla is and always has been late with products. Aside from the Roadster, they’ve never been 5-6 years late though. If you wanted a truck on a specific date… you ordered in the wrong half decade, call back in the 2027 or so.

Increasing prices 20% to get people their trucks faster works great. Look how quickly the people who were 20,000th in line moved up when Rivian increased their prices. That’s not a good growth strategy though.

The rest of your comment is largely out in left field.
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