Updated dry cathode battery - your thoughts?

[Woodrick]

It's no problem waiting for the better battery, the better computer, the upgraded truck.

I've been putting off buying a computer since 1977. There's going to be a better one next month. I don't want to get stuck with an "old, inferior one"

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[SCTesla]

They're swapping out people's motors for the new one, maybe they will swap out batteries too.

Lol.

They absolutely won't. Battery chemistry and types have been changed numerous times since 2012.

It took almost 4 years for the 4680 to reach parity with the smaller 2170.

The first few versions of dry cathode will 100% have a worse charging curve as Tesla tests the battery in real world conditions.

Being the first to get a battery design is always bad with Tesla.

 

[CTSoFL]

https://electrek.co/2024/07/23/tesla-gives-encouraging-update-on-4680-battery-cells/


"...The bigger news is that Tesla has started producing prototypes using the dry cathode, which should deliver the biggest cost reduction if it proves successful...Tesla has been guiding that 4680 costs would be below that of battery cell suppliers by the end of the year..."



Your mileage may vary.

 

[bdog]

I do understand that. HW 3 - 4 and other upgrades took some time but they just pushed half baked battery with overpriced CT with really low range and then after 8 months you get a new battery with +20% range. This is not the right thing to do. I haven't heard of any other car company who did that in the past.

The people who bought the CT knew 100% what vehicle they were buying and what the specs were. Nobody was tricked. If you thought the battery was "half baked" when you bought it then that's on you for buying it. I have my CB and I love it. I would love for the range to be greater but I plunked down my money in full knowledge of what I was buying so I can't claim things aren't fair or I was tricked. This is how technology works. As soon as you buy a computer or phone or television, a better one for the same price or cheaper is already being prepared for manufacture.

 

[mongo]

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on Tesla's dry cathode battery, which is reportedly nearing production. As you know, this battery is smaller and lighter than traditional batteries, and it also offers a longer range.
I'm particularly interested in Tesla's plans for battery replacement. I hope they will offer a discount or other incentive to customers who want to replace their old batteries with the new dry cathode batteries. Otherwise, it would be unfair to those who have already invested in a Tesla vehicle.

It's neither smaller nor lighter due to using a dry process for cathode coating vs wet. The main advantage is reduced factory and manufacturing cost due to elimination of solvent and drying ovens. Eliminating solvent may also help with longevity.

Supposedly, but it’s all speculation. Different outlets have speculated on optimization by doubling the thickness of the jelly roll and adding more silicon to the formula for more energy density but that remains to be seen. That will take some more time to test but now that they have solved the manufacturing variable, I suspect we’ll see rapid improvements over the next couple years.

Silicon would be part of the anode which Tesla has already been making using the dry process.

 

[HaulingAss]

It's no problem waiting for the better battery, the better computer, the upgraded truck.

I've been putting off buying a computer since 1977. There's going to be a better one next month. I don't want to get stuck with an "old, inferior one"

That's why I'm still driving a 1956 Willys Jeep. I'm so smart, I let someone else take the new vehicle depreciation when I bought it used. And each year they keep coming out with better trucks, which just makes me glad I haven't taken the bait yet.

Enjoy your Cybertrucks suckers, one of these days I'll have a better truck than you! ?
Well, unless I die first!

 

[lonsomecrow]

The people who bought the CT knew 100% what vehicle they were buying and what the specs were. Nobody was tricked. If you thought the battery was "half baked" when you bought it then that's on you for buying it. I have my CB and I love it. I would love for the range to be greater but I plunked down my money in full knowledge of what I was buying so I can't claim things aren't fair or I was tricked. This is how technology works. As soon as you buy a computer or phone or television, a better one for the same price or cheaper is already being prepared for manufacture.

No one knew earlier this year that dry cathode will be coming out that soon, so yes. Also, I do notice that most of the people who get offended when these kind of questions are asked, are the ones who already bought CT and trying to defend lol. Small improvement over the time are fine and on one is complaining about it. I bought model Y with HW3 and next month they started shipping with HW4 but I wasn't that pissed off. But if dry cathode comes out within a year and will add extra 20% range then I'd definitely be pissed off.

 

[lonsomecrow]

It's neither smaller nor lighter due to using a dry process for cathode coating vs wet. The main advantage is reduced factory and manufacturing cost due to elimination of solvent and drying ovens. Eliminating solvent may also help with longevity.


Silicon would be part of the anode which Tesla has already been making using the dry process.

Any news on range?

 

[HaulingAss]

Lol.

They absolutely won't. Battery chemistry and types have been changed numerous times since 2012.

It took almost 4 years for the 4680 to reach parity with the smaller 2170.

The first few versions of dry cathode will 100% have a worse charging curve as Tesla tests the battery in real world conditions.

Being the first to get a battery design is always bad with Tesla.

No, we have three early Model 3's, the first mass produced car to get the new 2170 cell. They all have minimal degradation, my RWD Model 3 still charges to 306-307 miles out of 310 original miles with over 70,000 miles on the odometer. It will probably last 20 years. And if you drive it below 60 mph, you can get over 400 miles range out of it. Still.

Tesla doesn't release a new battery design until it's so well tested they are sure it won't end up costing them billions of dollars down the road. Your narrative is a bunch of BS.

 

[mongo]

Any news on range?

Range isn't going be greatly impacted by dry processing since mass and chemistry are mostly unchanged. 4680, structural pack, and anode improvements are the biggies.

https://www.tesla.com/2020shareholdermeeting

 

[SCTesla]

No, we have three early Model 3's, the first mass produced car to get the new 2170 cell. They all have minimal degradation, my RWD Model 3 still charges to 306-307 miles out of 310 original miles with over 70,000 miles on the odometer. It will probably last 20 years. And if you drive it below 60 mph, you can get over 400 miles range out of it. Still.

Tesla doesn't release a new battery design until it's so well tested they are sure it won't end up costing them billions of dollars down the road. Your narrative is a bunch of BS.

The last 3 new batteries were released just as I said. Even the Cybertruck, gen 2 4680, had a slower charging speed when released. They still haven't unlocked what was promised by Drew.

The 4680 Model Y is one of the slowest charging cars in the fleet and it's had 2 updates. Even the Model 3, with the first 2170s has had 3 updates that increased charging speed.

New batteries are almost never best for consumers. Mostly for Tesla with cost. This is verifiable.

 

[HaulingAss]

The last 3 new batteries were released just as I said. Even the Cybertruck, gen 2 4680, had a slower charging speed when released. They still haven't unlocked what was promised by Drew.

The 4680 Model Y is one of the slowest charging cars in the fleet and it's had 2 updates. Even the Model 3, with the first 2170s has had 3 updates that increased charging speed.

New batteries are almost never best for consumers. Mostly for Tesla with cost. This is verifiable.

Yeah, the Model 3 got 3 charging speed updates and it took more than two years of data collection for Tesla to have enough data back from the field to be comfortable increasing the speed. The Cybertruck hasn't even had a year of real-world data yet. But far too much is made of the speed of fast DC charging, it's already better than over 90% of the owners even need. It's like a high bar that's been set, just for the sake of setting a high bar. It doesn't even matter in most real world use cases and will continue to get better over the next year or so, for those who might see some small benefit from that.

 

[Cyber_P]

Tesla isn’t really a car company. Again, all speculation. If you want to be the first to own a new product, caveat emptor.

What a bs response. No discussion when you're not even going to be reasonable.

They haven't changed a significant part manufacturing as vehicle like this without a version change. Like a LR. So don't go stating this is totally normal for them either.

If they change the battery and it gets 20% more and the 20k foundation price goes away, what do you expect people to feel? Bboozled? That they rushed the CT just to get it out due to pressure? Heck yeah. If it gets more range and there isn't a. Upgrade/recycle option it's in the wrong if you ask me. They promised more, have given terrible customer service, Charged a premium and now are swapping the battery mid production line year one.

If you think it won't bug us to get a 20% range version same year having paid a premium, you're wrong. If you don't see a problem with it that's fine. It doesn't mean we aren't justified. If no range difference no big deal.
As

 

[SCTesla]

Yeah, the Model 3 got 3 charging speed updates and it took more than two years of data collection for Tesla to have enough data back from the field to be comfortable increasing the speed. The Cybertruck hasn't even had a year of real-world data yet. But far too much is made of the speed of fast DC charging, it's already better than over 90% of the owners even need. It's like a high bar that's been set, just for the sake of setting a high bar. It doesn't even matter in most real world use cases and will continue to get better over the next year or so, for those who might see some small benefit from that.

You aren't counter anything I said. Just that it's worse for consumers to get new batteries. I never said it's a dud or failure. Tesla is really conservative with new batteries and always has been.

That's it.

 

[Crissa]

The first few versions of dry cathode will 100% have a worse charging curve as Tesla tests the battery in real world conditions.

You don't know this. No one outside of Tesla does.

I doubt it will, though, since they've been testing it for awhile.

-Crissa

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