Ventilated seats.

[Crissa]

The Tri Motor is half the price of the S Plaid.

-Crissa

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[CyberMoose]

The Tri Motor is half the price of the S Plaid.

-Crissa

I fixed my post. Been typing plaid too much after model S and did it from muscle memory, but the model S will also have the ventilated seats and the Cybertruck trimotor will be a similar price.

 

[drcarric2650]

If one cybertruck has it, all will. Elon prefers to keep things simple. Now they may have it, and be disabled, but generally they will let you pay to have it enable.

 

[tidmutt]

I agree. Although, ventilated seats could eventually become standard in all Tesla vehicles and just software locked. I don't know what the cost would be to Tesla to have a ventilated seat instead of the current seats. If the price is within a reasonable difference, I could see Tesla adding that in as a feature that could be unlocked on the app for a fee. I love how Tesla did that with the rear seats since it allows anyone to get rear seats with a small fee on the app, rather than an expensive upgrade at a service center.

As for the midgate, most of us have come to the same conclusion and all of us want Tesla to pull an elephant out a hat on this one to prove us wrong. The Cybertruck with a midgate is basically everything I could ever want in a truck. If Tesla can do it, I will praise Tesla every single time I go camping or need an extra long bed to haul something. I actually just learned a couple hours ago that my mother is putting me alone in her will. So when she passes, instead of the previous plan to sell the home and split it with my sister, I can now put some real work into it and a extra long bed could really help with that.

I shouldn't ask, it's none of my business... but did your sister piss off your mum or something? O_O

 

[Crissa]

I shouldn't ask, it's none of my business... but did your sister piss off your mum or something? O_O

Maybe the condition not to sell it was the change?

Having to sell to split it is kinda tough for some.

-Crissa

 

[tidmutt]

Maybe the condition not to sell it was the change?

Having to sell to split it is kinda tough for some.

-Crissa

Hmmm... he said he alone was in the will... Maybe one party getting other assets or something. Anyway, I feel kind of bad asking, but my curiosity got the better of me.

 

[CyberMoose]

I shouldn't ask, it's none of my business... but did your sister piss off your mum or something? O_O

Maybe the condition not to sell it was the change?

Having to sell to split it is kinda tough for some.

-Crissa

haha i'm actually surprised I put that a post on here. I was talking about it none stop with friends and getting a survey done on the property to plan for future projects, so I guess it was just always on my mind.

But year my sister has been pissing my mom off for a good 15 years, surprised my mom put up with her for that long, I don't think they've ever gotten along even for a short time.

Property isn't the best but it's actually a large property in a city that was pretty run down but is making a big turn around with a new casino, soon to have a costco, and other big stores opening up in the near future. Homes that are probably nicer but smaller were selling for close to half a million (CAD).

I found the house on fire insurance maps as far back as 1915, so it's over 100 years old. It seems the property line might actually extend the backyard quite a bit, so I'll be getting a survey done when I visit later this year. But there is a ton of work to do to that property. Need to break up a concrete backyard, move the garage closer to the street to use it as 2 car garage instead of just storage. There is a much smaller part of the house in the back which is a kitchen and a bedroom above but I plan to make that bigger than the front of the house since there is plenty of space and it'll turn it from a 3 bedroom to a 4 or 5 bedroom.

The Cybertruck is going to be getting a lot more work than I originally planned now that I know the house is going to me. I'll probably be dedicating about a year to fixing up the property and I couldn't think of a better truck to have with me when I do it.

Also to tie this to be somewhat something to do with the thread. It is going to be so nice if i'm working outside on a hot day and need to run to the store for more supplies, when I can just get in the cybertuck, turn the ventilated seats and AC on full and just cool off.

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

Ventilated seats.I was hoping that somebody has heard if Tesla is going to be putting ventilated seats in the cyber truck . I’m not sure what other Teslas have ventilated seats. I would love to have that option.

Elon confirmed the CT will have vented seats.

 

[BillyGee]

Elon confirmed the CT will have vented seats.

 

[JBee]

Ventilated seats increase passenger comfort and range, as it reduces body temperature allowing the air conditioner to run at a higher temperature, which in turn uses less battery. (The reverse of heated seats)

The determining factor here is passenger comfort, not cabin climate. You can easily achieve the same passenger comfort at much lower air conditioning settings. (Like wear a jumper when its cold )

But...I do not like Teslas over the air upgrade options at all, you should get whatever function the car is capable of doing in hardware (excluding software), like fan control for ventilated seats, or resistor seat heating, and even engine performance etc.

The only exception there is things like FSD and software, where there is a significant development cost that needs to be recovered, and where they can be uploaded at a later time. That's more like buying an updated program on your pc, and is actually costing something for Tesla to put into your vehicle. This is a fair "trade" were the customer gets extra value for payment.

But otherwise paying for something that is already in your vehicle and can do it with no extra cost to the manufacturer, and is intentionally disabled or throttled in your vehicle seems like a bit of a hustle to me.

 

[Crissa]

Most of the over-the-air upgrades were not things the car could do when purchased.

Even the performance unlocks were not available yet, because it's taken time, data, and programming to refine them ever further.

The locked heated seats and battery packs were a way for Tesla to not charge for these things up front - while they took the hit for paying for a more expensive but standardized part instead of variants.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

Most of the over-the-air upgrades were not things the car could do when purchased.

Even the performance unlocks were not available yet, because it's taken time, data, and programming to refine them ever further.

The locked heated seats and battery packs were a way for Tesla to not charge for these things up front - while they took the hit for paying for a more expensive but standardized part instead of variants.

-Crissa

Lol....perspectives.

The heated seats argument is a red herring IMHO. If a "High-tech" company can't figure out how to enable the heated seats from the factory, then there's something seriously wrong. It's literally a small contactor, a thermocouple and a resistive wire. It can't cost more than $20 per seat in hardware. So not a cost hit.

Same goes with the performance upgrade of the M3. The performance of the motors and drivetrain would of been a "known" throughout its development iterations and testing. Without a doubt. There is only so much data that can be gleaned from customer use, and most of that will not be in the upper fringe cases in high performance modes, as it would be on the test stand with thermal cameras etc. Typical engineering standards include safety margin ratios from at least 1.5 to up to 5. These would be well beyond the performance upgrade offered. The programing of the speed controllers is a non-factor, there would be just a few variables that would of been tweaked in the upgrade. I'm pretty sure that they would have the waveform modelling down to a t by the time it hit the assembly line, just from a efficiency/range perspective alone. (to reduce battery size and cost)

The only variable that I can see could of been a factor was that they wanted to make sure the battery pack could handle the extra load. But this would only be the case because they knowingly put inferior cells (from cell grading process) into the non-performance vehicle in the first place, with faulty/insufficient prior testing, which raises a bunch of other questions, of what the customer is buying, and how on the limit their hardware performance is, and how that affects reliability as per above.

Normally, you test before you give it to customers, and don't let your customers test it for you.

It's a bit like a self serve checkout, technically you should get the product cheaper because the company doesn't have to pay staff to operate the checkouts. I don't have a problem with them harvesting data (everyone does) to improve the product, so long it doesn't encroach on privacy, but I do have a problem with a manufacturer when they let the customer test things the manufacturer should explicitly guarantee performance of by design.

I would like to get the products and services that I pay for.

(as before I am willing to exclude software and in particular FSD, where data harvesting is critical to make progress - although financing that with the "FSD option" without having it available to use on the car is another thing)

It's more of a marketing ploy I think, one that other manufacturers are also employing, to generate buzz around potential "Easter eggs" the vehicle might have later on. I say "Easter herring."

 

[Crissa]

Well... I don't think you know as much as you think you do. (edit)

Yes, the heaters are a small addition to the cost of the seat. But then you have to weave another layer, do more testing, you need relays and potentiometers and breakers for each of them, and then a controller with open ports to accept the commands.

And then you have to have someone wire it all together.

Now, there is savings in putting them in a standardized pieces, which makes installation simpler, but it raises costs of the baseline parts.

$20 a seat is not nothing when it's two-four seats in a half million cars. That's a $10 million dollar bet.

-Crissa

(And no, they don't know everything about the performance of the motors, how everything interacts, until you have hours and hours of data. And even then, you need time to program all of this, and even then, sometimes a better way comes along and boosts everything. That's how tech works. My laptop is literally eight years old this month and it does far, far more than it originally was designed to do. And no, I did not upgrade it. The software is better.)

 

[JBee]

Well... I don't think you know as much as you do.

So I know more than you think I do? Thanks for the complement!

Yes, the heaters are a small addition to the cost of the seat. But then you have to weave another layer, do more testing, you need relays and potentiometers and breakers for each of them, and then a controller with open ports to accept the commands.

And then you have to have someone wire it all together.

Now, there is savings in putting them in a standardized pieces, which makes installation simpler, but it raises costs of the baseline parts.

$20 a seat is not nothing when it's two-four seats in a half million cars. That's a $10 million dollar bet.

-Crissa

(And no, they don't know everything about the performance of the motors, how everything interacts, until you have hours and hours of data. And even then, you need time to program all of this, and even then, sometimes a better way comes along and boosts everything. That's how tech works. My laptop is literally eight years old this month and it does far, far more than it originally was designed to do. And no, I did not upgrade it. The software is better.)

Controller IO are calculated in fractions of a cent for microcontrollers (despite current wafer prices). Seat manufacturing and weaving it in would be by machine, and can be done in lew of any other thread in stitching. I dunno what you need potentiometers for (variable resistors normally used as a user input), I thought the seat heating control was via touchscreen HMI? That would all run over the CAN bus. As for breakers, they'd be bundled with something else, or together, also no cost, but add a dollar if you like.

As for manufacturing, I can agree there is a cost, hence the whole Tesla wiring bus patent, that others are also doing. But the point is that it is a marginal hit, and in the end the marketing value was much higher than it cost them, whilst leaving the customer out of pocket.

It's a bit like the whole dealership argument, where dealerships earn more from service and repairs on a vehicle than from new car sales. Just in a different way. (BTW I'm not for dealerships and intentionally faulty designs or planned obsolescence)

My point is simple: Don't sell to people what they already bought, and don't sell to people that which doesn't yet exist.

 

[tidmutt]

So I know more than you think I do? Thanks for the complement!



Controller IO are calculated in fractions of a cent for microcontrollers (despite current wafer prices). Seat manufacturing and weaving it in would be by machine, and can be done in lew of any other thread in stitching. I dunno what you need potentiometers for (variable resistors normally used as a user input), I thought the seat heating control was via touchscreen HMI? That would all run over the CAN bus. As for breakers, they'd be bundled with something else, or together, also no cost, but add a dollar if you like.

As for manufacturing, I can agree there is a cost, hence the whole Tesla wiring bus patent, that others are also doing. But the point is that it is a marginal hit, and in the end the marketing value was much higher than it cost them, whilst leaving the customer out of pocket.

It's a bit like the whole dealership argument, where dealerships earn more from service and repairs on a vehicle than from new car sales. Just in a different way. (BTW I'm not for dealerships and intentionally faulty designs or planned obsolescence)

My point is simple: Don't sell to people what they already bought, and don't sell to people that which doesn't yet exist.

It seems to me that Tesla is iterating like.a typical software company. Hence the improvements over time. This is better than most vehicles where the capabilities are fairly static over a model's lifetime, sometimes with minor refreshes thrown in. Sometimes those capabilities are locked in years before release. I find Tesla's approach of their cars being essentially an automotive equivalent of an iphone to be fascinating. Software is indeed eating the world. The minimal physical controls means just about everything is fungible. That has pros and cons, but provides a lot of flexibility. This iteration seems entirely natural to me given that I have long worked under this model.

As for the disabled seat heaters. I think your perspective is a little naive... Tesla is a publicly traded company with a fiduciary responsibility to maximize returns for its shareholders. If they determine the best way to do that is to install seat heaters in all vehicles and activate them for those that pay, then that's what they'll do. I prefer this model because if I don't want the rear seat heaters on purchase but later decide I do, there is an viable option to pay, or hell, they could do a subscription model where I pay for it for a month for that ski trip with the kids. This is consumer friendly IMO. Not sure why you think you should get something just because it's there, that's not how it works at all. I mean, I pay for a subscription to Office 365, the incremental cost for that to Microsoft is pretty much 0, but I'm not entitled to it just because the CPU in my computer can run it.

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