Video: Cybertruck Battery Pack Teardown by Sandy Munro Live

[Woodrick]

This would be considered reasonable speculation and neither a conspiracy nor a theory. Increasing the cell height to 95 would still leave plenty of off gas space. And yes certainly if they wanted to make 4695, they would. Thats what im speculating might happen in the future.

I don't think that it is reasonable speculation, it's just a "not as conspiracy" thought.

The 4680 form factor wasn't chosen by accident. Did you watch the Battery Day meeting? The form factor was chosen to optimize the battery. They already thought about taller and wider, there are problems as the battery gets bigger. Severe enough that it took many years to just get the 4680 to production.

Why would they go through the work to make the case larger than needed? Battery form factor isn't something that is changed from day to day or even year to year.

Why would they take the hit by announcing that they were using a smaller capacity battery to not make 500 miles? Why would they have come up with the range extender?

If the answer was as simple as taller batteries, why didn't they do it?

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[Cyber Man]

I don't think that it is reasonable speculation, it's just a "not as conspiracy" thought.

The 4680 form factor wasn't chosen by accident. Did you watch the Battery Day meeting? The form factor was chosen to optimize the battery. They already thought about taller and wider, there are problems as the battery gets bigger. Severe enough that it took many years to just get the 4680 to production.

Why would they go through the work to make the case larger than needed? Battery form factor isn't something that is changed from day to day or even year to year.

Why would they take the hit by announcing that they were using a smaller capacity battery to not make 500 miles? Why would they have come up with the range extender?

If the answer was as simple as taller batteries, why didn't they do it?

Good points. It’s just that 1.3” across the entire floor seems to be too much of space to waste for ventilation or off-roading safety. What if they hit some roadblock while testing bigger batteries and need more time to test for safety? It’s hard to fathom that battery size will stay the same for another 5 years. Tesla could be extremely forward thinking here. After 8-9 years, if taller batteries materialize, current Truck design would allow them to swap out with newer batteries. That’s a very smart forward compatibility feature. Call it a wishful thinking but I’m not getting convinced that Tesla literally left 1.3” space under the belly to air out some gas, or to protect against some rock chips! They could have easily increased headroom by 0.5” to make the interior look bigger. 1.3” deep dent under the belly protected by dent resistant stainless steel and battery case is really a strong impact. I honestly don’t see why Tesla is erring so much on the caution side for off-roading or battery explosion. If it’s really ? safety, then I’m quite worried about battery stability of these newer cells. Are they so fragile that they need so much cushion and air gap? ?‍

 

[peebs]

If the answer was as simple as taller batteries, why didn't they do it?

Samsung is making 46120s for BMW. Rivian is gonna use 4695 in the R2. There are many possible reasons they didn't choose taller cells originally: 4680 probably makes more sense in their other products, they realized they need more range to expand their market, or other approaches to longer range didn't work out such as silicon in the anode or the double stacked pack. Maybe they planned taller variants all along! Who knows?

I'm not not sure why you're so stuck on this being impossible or unreasonable speculation. Also, while other companies might supply taller cells; the hard part of making the cell was A) making their own cell B) new innovations such as tabless and dry electrodes. I doubt a new height would take nearly as long to develop.

 

[firsttruck]

I don't think that it is reasonable speculation, it's just a "not as conspiracy" thought.

The 4680 form factor wasn't chosen by accident. Did you watch the Battery Day meeting? The form factor was chosen to optimize the battery. They already thought about taller and wider, there are problems as the battery gets bigger. Severe enough that it took many years to just get the 4680 to production.

Why would they go through the work to make the case larger than needed? Battery form factor isn't something that is changed from day to day or even year to year.

Why would they take the hit by announcing that they were using a smaller capacity battery to not make 500 miles? Why would they have come up with the range extender?

If the answer was as simple as taller batteries, why didn't they do it?

I don't think Tesla is the type to waste space for something 5-7 years out. For even 3 years out they have plenty of time to redesign battery pack to fit same mounting.

They must already have a near-term ( 6 months - 12 months) plan for an option that woulsd need some of the extra space (height).

The range extender is the near-term solution for more range.

Tesla Mechanical Engineer Wes Morrill said "Half-Full" not "half-empty".

Full-Full means the space (volume) is filled but that FULL does not necessarily mean more range.

The extra space (height) could mean a near-term announcement of option for less expensive and lower volumetric energy density cells like BYD Blade structural LFP pack or CATL structural LFP pack.

Also LFP cells might need less space for gases to expand out than Lithium cathode cell chemistries like NCA (used by Tesla & Panasonic) or NMC (used by many other EV brands).

NMC battery is a type of lithium-ion battery. NMC batteries have a cathode made of a combination of nickel, manganese, and cobalt. You've probably used NMC batteries more often than you realize - they power smartphones, laptops, and electric vehicles.

-----------------------------------------

The BYD blade battery cell length is 960mm, thickness is 13.5 mm, height is 90 mm.

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BYD (subsidiary FinDreams Battery) Blade battery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_battery


The blade battery is a lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery for electric vehicles, designed and manufactured by FinDreams Battery, a subsidiary of Chinese manufacturing company BYD.[1][2][3]

The blade battery is most commonly a 96 centimetres (37.8 in) long and 9 centimetres (3.5 in) wide single-cell battery with a special design, which can be placed in an array and inserted into a battery pack like a blade. It is made in various lengths and thicknesses. The space utilization of the battery pack is increased by over 50% compared to most conventional lithium iron phosphate block batteries.

The blade battery was officially launched by BYD in 2020. BYD claims that compared with ternary lithium batteries and traditional lithium iron phosphate batteries, the blade battery holds advantages in safety, range, longevity, strength and power.

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BYD’s revolutionary Blade Battery: all you need to know
BYD's blade battery is revolutionary in several ways. We are happy to explain why this is the case, as well as the importance of the so-called Nail Penetration Test.
January 22, 2023
https://www.byd.com/eu/blog/BYDs-revolutionary-Blade-Battery-all-you-need-to-know.html

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[Beyond]

I bet flipping that battery pack over was interesting.

 

[Woodrick]

Good points. It’s just that 1.3” across the entire floor seems to be too much of space to waste for ventilation or off-roading safety. What if they hit some roadblock while testing bigger batteries and need more time to test for safety? It’s hard to fathom that battery size will stay the same for another 5 years. Tesla could be extremely forward thinking here. After 8-9 years, if taller batteries materialize, current Truck design would allow them to swap out with newer batteries. That’s a very smart forward compatibility feature. Call it a wishful thinking but I’m not getting convinced that Tesla literally left 1.3” space under the belly to air out some gas, or to protect against some rock chips! They could have easily increased headroom by 0.5” to make the interior look bigger. 1.3” deep dent under the belly protected by dent resistant stainless steel and battery case is really a strong impact. I honestly don’t see why Tesla is erring so much on the caution side for off-roading or battery explosion. If it’s really ? safety, then I’m quite worried about battery stability of these newer cells. Are they so fragile that they need so much cushion and air gap? ?‍

It's not for "ventilation" it is for containment of the gases let off by an out of control battery. It's a huge volume of gas that is ejected and it's hot. The last thing that you want is the case over-pressurizing and exploding.

And as for as the off-road damage. Turn the Cybertruck upside down. Now drop a 3 tone boulder on it, wo that a pointed corner hits first. Or turn the truck back over and drop the truck on that rock.
How far do you expect the penetration. And the worse thing that can happen is that case compressing on the batteries.

I praise Tesla for thinking of all of this to continue making some of the safest, yet baddest vehicles on and off the road!

 

[Cyber Man]

It's not for "ventilation" it is for containment of the gases let off by an out of control battery. It's a huge volume of gas that is ejected and it's hot. The last thing that you want is the case over-pressurizing and exploding.

And as for as the off-road damage. Turn the Cybertruck upside down. Now drop a 3 tone boulder on it, wo that a pointed corner hits first. Or turn the truck back over and drop the truck on that rock.
How far do you expect the penetration. And the worse thing that can happen is that case compressing on the batteries.

I praise Tesla for thinking of all of this to continue making some of the safest, yet baddest vehicles on and off the road!

By ventilation I meant venting out harmful gasses when there is fire hazard. BTW, other Teslas don’t have this new exhaust mechanism, but I can accept that this could be a newer way to protect battery fires; however, I don’t think the damage from off-roading is the same as turning the vehicle upside down and dropping 3 ton boulder. There are at least three contact points while rock crawling. The point of impact is different. Even if you are zipping through trails and jump off 4 feet, suspensions will take the max hit. No other EV trucks have 1.3” air cushion for the batteries, especially Rivian, and they take off-roading very seriously. If the gap is really to protect the batteries, I’m worried about the stability of these newer cells.

 

[Jimbo Ringo]

Wow, still going with the conspiracy theories?

Don't you think that if Tesla wanted to make a 4695 battery, they would have?
As the video shows, there's a LOT more to be considered than cell size. Bigger batteries, more off-gas space required.

If you go back a few years, Tesla experimented with different size batteries and determined the length to “jelly roll” diameter ratio of 46 to 80 was the optimum for maximum cylindrical battery operational efficiency. Other sizes will not be as efficient as the 4680. In this case bigger is not better.

 

[Woodrick]

By ventilation I meant venting out harmful gasses when there is fire hazard. BTW, other Teslas don’t have this new exhaust mechanism, but I can accept that this could be a newer way to protect battery fires; however, I don’t think the damage from off-roading is the same as turning the vehicle upside down and dropping 3 ton boulder. There are at least three contact points while rock crawling. The point of impact is different. Even if you are zipping through trails and jump off 4 feet, suspensions will take the max hit. No other EV trucks have 1.3” air cushion for the batteries, especially Rivian, and they take off-roading very seriously. If the gap is really to protect the batteries, I’m worried about the stability of these newer cells.

Then I guess you need to be worried.

Of course they are basically the same batteries that are in the Model 3/Y, just a different form factor.

But okay, you are right. It's a conspiracy theory or Tesla overdesigned the pack. I guess we'll find out in 5 years. But isn't 5 years when Tesla has been doing it's refreshes?

 

[Beyond]

The space at the bottom would also allow for some temporary water intrusion if a seal leaked, which could then be expelled by compressed air.

 

[Cyber Man]

Then I guess you need to be worried.

Of course they are basically the same batteries that are in the Model 3/Y, just a different form factor.

But okay, you are right. It's a conspiracy theory or Tesla overdesigned the pack. I guess we'll find out in 5 years. But isn't 5 years when Tesla has been doing it's refreshes?

You might be right. I was just playing devil’s advocate as Tesla is all about optimizing space. As other member said, air cushion might help with water intrusion as well. So, I can see some benefits. Either ways, I’m happy with 300 miles range. I don’t have any complaints. ?

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