What Wall Charger to Buy???

[ajdelange]

Real world numbers from real usage, YMMV.

Well, you see, that's the thing about it. People's mileages do vary. Some find Level 1 charging adequate. Most probably wouldn't.

My personal experience, FWIW, is that I'll charge anywhere from 1 kW to 9.6 kW depending on circumstances and if I'm paying attention to it. In other cases I just let it run automatically at 4.8 kW or so. Thus my answer to the question of this thread: You need EVSE that supports a high rate for when you need it and you don't for when you don't.

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[Ogre]

Don't underestimate the lowly Level 1 charge point.

120v/ 15a does the job fine for me driving ~30 miles per day in Willamette Valley Oregon. If we drove more or had the weather @HaulingAss has, it would probably not be fine.

If someone asks me, I recommend getting the wall connector (or UMC + 220v adaptor). It just makes more sense for the *generic* case where you don’t know the other person’s comfort level and driving habits.

I do tend to forget that half of the readership is in the 5 lowest deciles.

You occasionally have some insight, but not today. Doubling down on your superiority BS when your comments have added exactly 0 to the discussion and been outright wrong for half of it just makes you look like a tool.

 

[Ogre]

My car has been parked for five solid days, plenty for 120v charging. Using only off-peak times, that would be around 140kWH. I've only left the house on eBikes and in someone else's car.

Today I have to drive a lot, and will come home fairly low. First thing tomorrow, I will do even more driving, to the point of planning a 100% charge tonight. 120v charging, off peak, would give me at most 15kWH, far from enough. If I start charging on peak, I'd get at most 25k. 240v 30a off-peak charging will give me over 60k. Our on-peak rate is nearly double the off peak.

Real world numbers from real usage, YMMV.

This has been my experience too.

On *average* 120v works, but as you suggest peak rates change that. We don’t even have to deal with peak/ off-peak rates, that would make it even trickier.

On a typical week we drive about 30 miles a day and recharge about 50 miles a day. So we have about 20 surplus hours per day. But on Wednesdays, it’s closer to 100 miles. If we have a weekend trip, it’s tough to recover that big deficit day and get up to 90% SOC before the weekend trip.

Usually my wife stops at the SC for 10 minutes during lunch and we’re fine, but it would be nice to eliminate those extra logistics.

 

[SwampNut]

SC availability would certainly be a factor. Everyone has slightly different needs. I also just literally got off a call with a Leaf owner who joked about my car making it to his place to get a hard drive with critical data, because his Leaf could not make it to me, and chargers for him are nothing like SC. We have no routine, so day to day usage is just random. Today and tomorrow are POSSIBLE with an SC boost, but much nicer and cheaper with higher speed at home.

 

[Crissa]

This idea that 'most' wouldn't be okay on level 1 charging is poppycock.

'Most' people don't drive more than they'd get from a level 1 charger. The average driver drives from 11k to 15k (depending on measurement). Cars spend most of their time parked.

And remember, some portion of that driving is road-trips. You aren't going to be charging at home, if you're not home. About a third of my miles are road-trips!

Lastly, there are more cars than drivers. So cars individually travel less than the average driver drives.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

This idea that 'most' wouldn't be okay on level 1 charging is poppycock.

I guess it depends on what you consider “Okay” in this context.

One of my favorite features of EVs is eliminating gas stops. With my Model Y, a high speed charger will eliminate a few charging stops.

If the Cybertruck got as much mileage as my Model Y, the L1 charger would not even meet my daily needs and I would need to use the Supercharger even without any roadtrips.

We’re spending $40k-80k or more on a truck. Spending $800 - $2k for an L2 charger is an easy call.

 

[Crissa]

If the Cybertruck got as much mileage as my Model Y,

Most people aren't driving a truck, though. And most trucks don't get that kind of mileage.

The average pickup truck sees about a quarter the miles of the average vehicle in the US.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

Most people aren't driving a truck, though. And most trucks don't get that kind of mileage.

The average pickup truck sees about a quarter the miles of the average vehicle in the US.

-Crissa

It’s not about *total* mileage though. It’s about peak mileage.

It is very common for me to do 2 bike related trips on the weekend. One day of recreation and one day of trail building/ giving back. Or sometimes it’ll be a trip to Portland for IKEA, then a bike trip.

Either way, it would be very nice if on that second day I had the full 80% charge back when I start. It already takes 2-3 days to recover from a long trip in the Model Y. In the truck it’ll be worse.

And I don’t have to deal with peak/ off-peak charging rates. If you have to deal with that, you only have a limited number of hours per day to reset.


Very very few people who buy a wall charger are going to look at it 2 years later and think “Damn, what a waste of money that was”.

 

[Bill906]

Most people aren't driving a truck, though. And most trucks don't get that kind of mileage.

The average pickup truck sees about a quarter the miles of the average vehicle in the US.

-Crissa

Not disagreeing with you. I believe everything you said is true. Just want to add that although on a whole that is true, regionally, I believe there are some big swings from that.
When I get my CT it will be my only vehicle. Right now in my family the closest thing to a "car" is my Jeep Grand Cherokee. My mother drives a 2019 Chevy Tahoe, Dad just bought a 2022 Chevy Silverado (full size ICE not the EV), My sister's family has a 2010 Silverado and a 2019 Silverado. (Small town, only has a GM dealer and a Ford dealer, they don't want to buy something that they have to drive 90 miles to get serviced). In the last month my sister drove her Silverado on two 5+ hour trips to bring my nephew to some hockey tournaments.
Compared to the entire country, I'd say my family is not the average family. But if you look at just the midwest, especially the northern snowy part, we are pretty close to average I think.

 

[Balthezor]

I built a new house and got the Wall Connector. Not cheap because copper prices are insane. I also have 2 other NEMA 14-50 outlets in other spots in the garage. I wanted to future proof it, probably overkill and wasn't cheap.

Charges the Model Y 46 miles/hr. Prior to that for 1.5 years, just used a regular outlet. Honestly, 99% of the time it was fine but I did have charging at work and my wife didn't have to travel much for work.

 

[Crissa]

Very very few people who buy a wall charger are going to look at it 2 years later and think “Damn, what a waste of money that was”.

I'm just saying that we should not get complacent against the idea that expensive wall chargers are required by most. They just aren't.

A car charger is a definite value-add to any home. And Teslas do get driven more miles on average!

-Crissa

 

[SwampNut]

I would completely agree with that, almost nobody needs more than the UMC and a 30 amp outlet.

 

[Ogre]

Back on the main topic.

Tesla Wall Connectors communicate with each other. If you have a single vehicle it’s not a big deal, but if you have multiple vehicles, this means your Wall Connectors can chat with each other and share a single service. So if you have 2 Wall Chargers off of a 50a service and both need to charge, they will charge at 20a each. Once one of them finishes charging, the other one continues charging at 40a.

With 14-50 outlets, or with non-Tesla chargers, you wouldn’t have this flexibility. You would either need 2 50 Amp breakers or some kind of switch.


If you are running a new 220v service for your car, the Tesla Wall Chargers are the kings. I’d recommend them even if you don’t have a Tesla.

 

[Crissa]

The Wall charger can apparently share a 50a outlet, too. And there are third-party devices which do fallback or timer control for such an outlet like https://www.splitvolt.com/

Lots of low-cost solutions.

Remember, charging your EV can be really cheap, so that $400 charger in comparison would cost more than the juice.

While my motorcycle can use one, that $400 would buy 13k miles worth of charging for my motorcycle. It's much closer for say a Cybertruck, which $400 would only get you 3.5k of miles (presuming 31¢ kWh and 350 watts per mile). Someone who's on the low end of price per kwh might be doubling their first years' fuel cost!

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

The Wall charger can apparently share a 50a outlet, too. And there are third-party devices which do fallback or timer control for such an outlet like https://www.splitvolt.com/

Lots of low-cost solutions.

Those SplitVolt adaptors cost $380… barely less than the Wall Connector. You would likely need to install that with a GFCI breaker. Plus you need a UMC for each vehicle. Now you’ve spent more money and it’s not nearly as nice as having 2 Wall Connectors that cooperate.

Remember, charging your EV can be really cheap, so that $400 charger in comparison would cost more than the juice.

Sure. Sharing existing utilities is the lowest cost solution.

Many people don’t have service to where they park their car (Me). Lots of people want dedicated service for their vehicle. In those cases, the Wall Connector is best.

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