firsttruck

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Several times I have heard Sandy Munro talk about taking manufacturing techniques commonly used in one industry or product type and using them in a different industry or product type that had never used those techniques before.

The types of machines that can bend, fold, mutilate stainless steel into Cybertruck exoskeletons probably already exist but just were never used in auto industry before.
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teslamaniac

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My point was not regarding the production of cold-rolled stainless steel. That is obviously already being done and is used on the SpaceX Starship. The problem is that, unlike the thin steel that has been used in auto-bodies for over a century, 3-mm-thick (.118-in) ultra-hard 30X cold-rolled stainless-steel cannot be stamped because it would quickly break the stamping machine. That is why it must be scored and folded. Where has this origami scoring and folding process been used before with this material, on a product as large as the Cybertruck?
You can't just magically introduce a brand new, never before attempted, large-scale volume manufacturing process (i.e., the stainless steel origami scoring and folding) and expect it to work right the very first time it has ever been tried. These things take an enormous amount of time and engineering effort to get right.
So, has anyone seen any evidence of such machinery being tested or demonstrated or moved into the GigaTexas facility?
 
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teslamaniac

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Several times I have heard Sandy Munro talk about taking manufacturing techniques commonly used in one industry or product type and using them in a different industry or product type that had never used those techniques before.

The types of machines that can bend, fold, mutilate stainless steel into Cybertruck exoskeletons probably already exist but just were never used in auto industry before.
Probably? Please cite an example of such a system that does this in high volume for a product the size of the Cybertruck.
 

SparkChaser

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My point was not regarding the production of cold-rolled stainless steel. That is obviously already being done and is used on the Space Starship. The problem is that, unlike the thin steel that has been used in auto-bodies for over a century, 3-mm-thick (.118-in) ultra-hard 30X cold-rolled stainless-steel cannot be stamped because it would quickly break the stamping machine. That is why it must be scored and folded. Where has this origami scoring and folding process been used before with this material, on a product as large as the Cybertruck?
You can't just magically introduce a brand new, never before attempted, large-scale volume manufacturing process (i.e., the stainless steel origami scoring and folding) and expect it to work right the very first time it has ever been tried. These things take an enormous amount of time and engineering effort to get right.
So, has anyone seen any evidence of such machinery being tested or demonstrated or moved into the GigaTexas facility?
It is treated like sheet material, which it is. Power brakes and plasma cutters will be able to process it in a fairly automated line. These parts will be attached, welded or bolted together to form the exoskeleton. The machines to do this will be very similar if not the same as many of the robotic assembly machines used on the other vehicles. cutting and bending the sheets into the shapes that then get trimmed and welded or bolted together will be getting there soon if not
there already, I hope.
 


teslamaniac

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Manufacturing expert Sandy Munro has worked with exoskeletons before. He does not think volume production of Cybertruck stainless steel exoskeleton will be a problem.
I would love it if someone could elaborate and cite an instance in the auto-industry or in any other industry where someone has done this before in high-volume with 3-mm-thick (.118-in) ultra-hard 30X cold-rolled stainless-steel sheets for a product this large.
I am not saying it can't be done. Maybe it is a commonly used process. But it is curious to me that, while Tesla has shown off the manufacturing process for its 4680 battery pack and has highly publicized its huge gigapresses, I have seen nothing at all about this other process.
I am genuinely interested in seeing this in action, since it is the single most innovative and unusual feature of the Cybertruck. I am surprised that no one else shares my curiosity.
 

teslamaniac

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It is treated like sheet material, which it is. Power brakes and plasma cutters will be able to process it in a fairly automated line. These parts will be attached, welded or bolted together to form the exoskeleton. The machines to do this will be very similar if not the same as many of the robotic assembly machines used on the other vehicles. cutting and bending the sheets into the shapes that then get trimmed and welded or bolted together will be getting there soon if not
there already, I hope.
I hope so, too. It may be a very well known and commonly used process to score and fold stainless steel of this thickness and hardness into products this large - I am not a manufacturing engineer - but until I see it demonstrated, either by Tesla for the Cybertruck, or by someone else for a comparable product, I will remain skeptical.
 

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Prior to Tesla, can you document a manufacturer creating huge castings for entire subsystems on the vehicle?

Lots of stuff Tesla does hasn’t been done before. Its what they do.
And Tesla ceaselessly promoted their new innovative technology. Yet I have not heard even a whisper about this process. I thought that I would have by now.
And maybe it isn't a new process, at all; maybe it is a very common industrial process. But I know that it has never before been used to mass produce automobile bodies. And as far as I know it has never been done before with this material at high volume for a product this large.
I just want to see it being done and know that it does indeed work and that it will not be a problem. I would love to see Sandy Munro address this.
 

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It is common manufacturing currently. Not a new technology. I am sure Tesla will find ways to innovate but forming stainless into things like BBQs and other items is the same process that will be used here. A very similar process is used for aluminum for aircraft.
 


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It is common manufacturing currently. Not a new technology. I am sure Tesla will find ways to innovate but forming stainless into things like BBQs and other items is the same process that will be used here. A very similar process is used for aluminum for aircraft.
I don't think most barbeques are made of 3-mm-thick ultra-hard 30X cold-rolled stainless-steel. You wouldn't want to try the sledge-hammer stunt with your barbeque. Aluminum is certainly not 3-mm-thick ultra-hard 30X cold-rolled stainless-steel and aircraft are not scored and origami folded like the Cybertruck.
The feedback that I am getting here is on the order of "nothing to see here, move along." So I reiterate: You can't just magically introduce a brand new, never before attempted, large-scale high-volume automated manufacturing process (i.e., the stainless steel origami scoring and folding) and expect it to work right the very first time it has ever been tried. These things take an enormous amount of time and engineering effort to get right.
Merely referencing a machine that folds thin, soft metal into some other product, although it may demonstrate similar theoretical principles that will be employed by Telsa, is hardly sufficient to demonstrate that there is no challenge in automating the Cybertruck process.
I had anticipated that by now we would have seen Tesla videos showing this process. Somewhat along the lines of this:
A roll of cold-rolled stainless steel is suspended at the start of the process. A long sheet is pulled off the roll and heads down the production line. A robot cuts out a pre-determined shape into the flat metal with - what? plasma streams or water-jets; I don't know exactly. It proceeds down the line and is scored by laser-wielding robots along the lines of the folds. Then another robot bends it along the folds. Finally a robotic team welds the seams together, and -voila- out comes the Cybertruck exoskeleton.
I am still waiting to see this for the Cybertruck or, for that matter, any other comparable product.

EDIT: Even if you could scale up an automated production process for a smaller product made of thinner, softer stainless steel, there are a million and one things that can go wrong when you scale that up to a brand new product the size of the Cybertruck using thicker, harder stainless steel. This is not a gimmie. It may take considerable time and effort to work out all the kinks. That is why I am concerned that we have not yet seen this demonstrated.
 
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cvalue13

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they need to induce buyers remorse in people who have a Rivian or F150.
buyer’s remorse!?

we here go by the government spend principle: why have only one when you can have both for more than twice the price
 

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Can you score with a laser ?

The pieces move along a conveyor , laser scored from above and then through several gentle incrementing bends to bring it to shape.

I have no idea... but would it be that hard to find a way?

My wife's Wok is damn heavy.
 

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I don't think most barbeques are made of 3-mm-thick ultra-hard 30X cold-rolled stainless-steel. You wouldn't want to try the sledge-hammer stunt with your barbeque. Aluminum is certainly not 3-mm-thick ultra-hard 30X cold-rolled stainless-steel and aircraft are not scored and origami folded like the Cybertruck.
The feedback that I am getting here is on the order of "nothing to see here, move along." So I reiterate: You can't just magically introduce a brand new, never before attempted, large-scale high-volume automated manufacturing process (i.e., the stainless steel origami scoring and folding) and expect it to work right the very first time it has ever been tried. These things take an enormous amount of time and engineering effort to get right.
Merely referencing a machine that folds thin, soft metal into some other product, although it may demonstrate similar theoretical principles that will be employed by Telsa, is hardly sufficient to demonstrate that there is no challenge in automating the Cybertruck process.
I had anticipated that by now we would have seen Tesla videos showing this process. Somewhat along the lines of this:
A roll of cold-rolled stainless steel is suspended at the start of the process. A long sheet is pulled off the roll and heads down the production line. A robot cuts out a pre-determined shape into the flat metal with - what? plasma streams or water-jets; I don't know exactly. It proceeds down the line and is scored by laser-wielding robots along the lines of the folds. Then another robot bends it along the folds. Finally a robotic team welds the seams together, and -voila- out comes the Cybertruck exoskeleton.
I am still waiting to see this for the Cybertruck or, for that matter, any other comparable product.

EDIT: Even if you could scale up an automated production process for a smaller product made of thinner, softer stainless steel, there are a million and one things that can go wrong when you scale that up to a brand new product the size of the Cybertruck using thicker, harder stainless steel. This is not a gimmie. It may take considerable time and effort to work out all the kinks. That is why I am concerned that we have not yet seen this demonstrated.
I have worked in the Aero space industry building satellites and aircraft for almost 40 years. Manufacturing SS into boxes ore other shapes is not much different that aluminum. The 3mm thickness just changes the bend allowance. It can be done with scoring and hydraulic bending breaks it is all just metal. Manufacturing in SS is not as easy as aluminum but it is the same process. Plasma cut pieces with linier bends, as we see in the CT make it straight forward. The attach flanges of the panels that will be welded or attached to the frame to form the exoskeleton will not be that complex. It is the simplicity of the CT that allows this method of construction.

Tesla Cybertruck Cybertruck timeline schedule prediction -- Agree or Disagree? depositphotos_440428678-stock-photo-working-with-sheet-metal-on
 

teslamaniac

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Can you score with a laser ?

The pieces move along a conveyor , laser scored from above and then through several gentle incrementing bends to bring it to shape.

I have no idea... but would it be that hard to find a way?

My wife's Wok is damn heavy.
I have no idea either. In researching this question I came upon the following article which now has me wondering about the efficacy of the whole notion of origami scoring and folding the steel as a high-volume low-cost mass-production process:
https://stampingsimulation.com/forming-stainless-steel-part-2/
I wish Elon would just show us and put my mind at ease.
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