More Tesla price cuts === cheaper Cybertruck (6 oct)

[Jhodgesatmb]

Prices are cut up to 6% again. Shout out to the dual motor is going to be 70k people. Really hoping this means you're wrong. But you might not be still lol

My nephew ordered a Model Y when they reduced prices in January and with the 2-3 price increases and price decreases the price is back to identical to what he was quoted. That said, of course it is great news for Cybertruck pricing.

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[Jhodgesatmb]

If the cybertruck follows the rest of the Tesla lineup in terms of marketing/product positioning: it will be a more expensive product than its peers, but deliver far better performance, and maybe even a bit less luxury. Lower interior quality & greater technology than peers.

Tesla has always been a premium product selling at a higher price point in its applicable category

The model three model S model, X are all premium products for the category. They are expensive products for the category they are in, however the performance they deliver blows away the competition.

I think the same may apply to the cybertruck. If a standard F150 cost $40,000, you’re gonna be paying a lot more for the appropriate configuration of the cyber truck, but it will be deliver substantially more performance and tech but also At a premium price (which is still an excellent value)

i’m guessing it will be Ford raptor or ram TRX performance as a substantial discount from those vehicles. Kind of like the Ford lightning. I’d suggest if you haven’t done, so spend some time on the Ford lightning configurator to get a sense of what costs are going to be.

It will not be a full size truck selling below or even at the average for the category.

Sadly I do not think you have been paying attention. Tesla introduced the Cybertruck trims and prices to be competitive with ICE versions of trucks with similar features, and went out of their way to introduce at 'lower' prices. Yes, they have always said that the Cybertruck will be a technology toy, but that doesn't change their motivation to obliterate ICE truck sales. Many here (me included) believe that if the supply chain and materials costs drop to close to what they were at the end of 2021 (when the Cybertruck was supposed to start shipping), then Tesla is likely to honor their original pricing. Anyone can invent a logic but my comment is based on what Tesla has itself said.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

“They knew prices of the truck market when they announced it. They had it priced same as Y. Why would that change?”


It was four years ago

Elon musk himself said, pricing would be different, which means higher

and it comes down to how it’s configured a model Y starts at $53,000 with no options are we including $6000 navigation or $15,000 full self driving?

Similar on Ford F150 lightning: base starts at 60 high end model starts at 98,000+

The cybertruck, many of us will want to own won’t be a base w no options. Let alone be available

Tesla doesn't charge for Navigation systems like many/most legacy manufacturers. It is standard on all of their vehicles. The FSD price is never part of their pricing.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Words, but not actions by Tesla.

Always been a premium product.

No reason to believe it’s now gonna be any less that a Lightening, unless they make a base fleet version.

Not looking likely soon with items like 4 wheel steering, air suspension, 35” tires, vault,
All premium. and expensive.

Now if they make all those items as an option then it starts to look better financially.
The $35K M3 was very short lived though.

Competition Is what sets price, not the company/product.
so Ford Lightening configurator is is best benchmark until we know more officially.

would be great to see the 2019 launch pricing, but I’d advise to budget at lightning levels unless tesla breaks with the past and delivers a base/fleet/stripper version, let alone at launch

All of those items you mention have been advertised as standard on all Cybertruck trims. Stop thinking that Tesla is like other companies and you will stop coming up with these theories which, for those other companies, would be right on target. I would go out of my way to ignore the configurator for any other BEV (or even ICE) vehicle. Look at the Tesla configurator and see how few options they have and then you are on the right track.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

this topic does come up a lot, lots of arguments for and against. I for one don’t have any net bearing on which view is more likely correct.

but I *do* end up wondering if these debates lose track of one practical point: isn’t it widely agreeable that Tesla will first release it’s most expensive model?

if so, then isn’t the debate around the lowest priced model sort of mute for the foreseeable future? how soon on the calendar do folks think Tesla will get to selling the lowest priced CT? a year after launch? Less/more?

Personally I am hoping that they start with the Tri or Quad motor trim since it was the 500-mile range and the 3mm stainless that got my attention initially. There have been rumors abound that Tesla will begin with a lower-range model. Who knows. I don't want to give up my spot but I also don't want to give up on my range requirements.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

The reservation list and additional demand is the reason Tesla cannot stay within 10% of reveal price.

You and I think differently. I see the reservation list and demand as additional proof that Tesla 'can' stay within 10% of the unveiling pricing. And politically they are motivated to do just that despite any other pressures.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Knowing you’re amongst the most bullish, I’m curious of your personal take on a few points:

(1) do you think Tesla will immediately begin selling the entire range of configurations on day 1, or will there be a step-wise release of configurations over time?

(2) if over time, what config do you think comes first?

(3) if over time, what do you think comes next, last?

(4) if over time, what do you think is the length of time between the first available config shipping initial orders, and the last available config shipping initial orders?

I’m not really knowledgeable of the Tesla precedent on these things, or if there are any reasons to think that precedent could be different this time around. The CT certainly seems a wildly different product than prior iterations, so maybe precedent has an asterisk?

- Re (1, 2): One trim first, hoping it will be the Tri or Quad.
- Re (3): Dual next. Probably within a year of the start of mass production.
- Re (3): Single, if ever, last.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I seriously doubt it will be under $80k just based the current e-truck market. CT will not be a threat to the cheaper Lightnings or the Rivian until much later.

Agree to disagree. I believe that Cybertruck pricing will blow Ford, GM, Rivian, etc. away. Tesla is giving them a head start in a way.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Ok. So with that logic we all ignoring inflation since 2019 and expecting launch pricing even after EM stated not gonna happen? That’s some magic math there…

I guess the prior fiasco on this has been forgotten:

https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/16/21569524/tesla-model-3-35000-price-stop-selling

Tesla's pricing would have been designed for when mass production was expected to begin, at the end of 2021 (is that right guys?), not when it was introduced in 2019. There is no magic here. Elon told the world that when prices went up, and supply-chain issues happened, they would have no choice but to raise the Cybertruck prices. But those same factors have eased off so why not make the same guess that Tesla would do its best to return its pricing to the pre-inflation, pre-supply-chain estimates?

 

[Crissa]

Considering Elon, musk, himself said prices are going up from launch on this one. It’s tough to hold onto the belief that they will be maintained. However, I hope you’re right! As this will be the blow away cheapest electrical vehicle out by a huge margin, (relative to its competition, ) which would be unprecedented.

He said they wouldn't be the same.

He did not say they were going up 50%. Or even 10%.

-Crissa

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I kinda think that Tesla was making too much money at almost 30% gross profit. They have like 21 billion in cash and growing. When they cut prices across the board they are still making probably 15-20% gross profit and they basically cannot invest that money in new products fast enough. So they cut prices to make it more affordable, that in turns gains more sales, which generates more cash. Everyone wins tbh.

I still think the dual motor is prob $60k because of the stainless and all the other goodies.

I agree with your first paragraph, and I don't know what the price on the Dual will be but I suspect it will be closer to the unveiling price than that (and stainless is standard in all trims so you shouldn't include it with the other 'goodies'). I am guessing you think these 'extra' goodies justify an increased price, but I am of the opinion that these goodies come with them more efficient manufacturing and thus result in a net reduction in cost. 4-wheel steering, for example, if it ends up resulting in almost identical front and rear castings, will be simpler to build than 2-wheel steering. So far we do not know what other 'goodies' might be involved. I think it is pretty easy to conjecture that if Tesla were to go with Steer-by-Wire, or Brake-by-Wire that manufacturing simplicity would go way up and costs would go way down. Just eliminating the hydraulics would result in massive savings. Their wiring and networking is going to result in huge savings...

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

He said they wouldn't be the same.

He did not say they were going up 50%. Or even 10%.

-Crissa

He also said on numerous occasions that Teslas cost too much and that the Cybertruck had to be affordable (and that they were working hard at bringing cost down). With regard to his statement back when he said that the prices wouldn't be the same 'because' of specific external pressures which have now abated somewhat.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

He also said prices would be higher than 2019 launch.

So why would they be materially lower than the only competing product (Lightening) that’s loosing money? We know Tesla isn’t going to dilute their margins with CT, stock would tank.

Ford is losing money because it tried to make an electric truck from an ICE truck and never made any attempt to optimize manufacturing. There has never been any real competition between Tesla and Ford in terms of manufacturing so you should just drop all comparisons to legacy (or any, really) manufacturers or their vehicles.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

If Tesla wanted to flood the earth with CT Musk should not have chosen a design with niche appeal. This is a vanity project and a completely unnecessary risk for an auto maker that plans to be big.

CT is a better design for a company with BMWs market position and aspirations.

You crack me up! Tesla will flood the market because of their function-over-form approach with the Cybertruck. Yes, in a lot of ways the Cybertruck is a vanity project for Elon but he drives a Model S so it isn't just raw functionality that appeals to him. He said that he would drive a 'Plaid' Cybertruck. If there is such a beast I suspect that it will have a nicely-appointed interior. You 'can' have a comfortable truck that is insanely functional.

There may have been some risk in the beginning and even Elon said he wondered if they would sell 50,000 of them, but that time came and went in the first couple of days after the unveiling and simply moot at this point in time.

It is funny that you mention BMW as their approach has always been to not rock their own boat. They are not in the least bit innovative anymore.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

That's.....not how the world works. It's obvious that Tesla always prices to match supply and demand. So does Rivian. So does Ford. A very basic business fact is that you don't get to price a product high because you need more money.

Many posters in this thread don't understand Tesla history, capitalism and basic economics. It's ironic because the value creation needed to buy even an entry level Cybertruck comes from capitalism. Other economics systems provide such gems as the Lada and Trabant.

You are wrong. Tesla's/Elon's vision of changing the world trump 'basic economics' (which, it seems to me, shows just how screwed up the world is). My father was supposedly a marketing genius and he was completely wrong with respect to the way things are compared to the way things could be. Elon's motivations are about saving humanity and that is the road he is on. Tesla is so efficient at building cars that they can price them lower and still make more money than any other car maker in the world (by a hefty margin).

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