No Resale Agreement?

[Deleted member 3316]

This is at least the third time you have stooped to calling me a “profiteer”. In addition to being a low-key ad hominem attack, it speaks to your hubris: you’re unable to accept that someone disagrees with you without having an ulterior motive.

This is not ad hominem, it is merely a description of what you have openly discussed. You want to be able to sell your Cybertruck or the reservation for profit. That is a legally legitimate pursuit. Just as it is legally legitimate to introduce market mechanisms to limit the practice.

It’s not an ulterior motive if it’s directly expressed.

I’m quite happy to accept the disagreement, what I am challenging is your logic and rationale for your position.

Skipping around and deliberately misrepresenting my position highlights either a disingenuous argument or a genuine lack of comprehension of basic economic concepts.

We cannot continue if we cannot agree on base reality.

Does Tesla currently have a market clearing pricing strategy. Yes/No

Supply and Demand is basically mediated by pricing and production capacity. Yes/No

You will not engage in what is classically considered parasitic profiteering. Yes/No

My main concern is keeping pricing low/close to reveal. YES/NO

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[Ogre]

This is at least the third time you have stooped to calling me a “profiteer”. In addition to being a low-key ad hominem attack, it speaks to your hubris: you’re unable to accept that someone disagrees with you without having an ulterior motive.

It’s because you clearly don’t care about the product and are only interested in it for the value of flipping it. Your posts lack any enthusiasm or passion and just show a maverick attitude towards flipping the truck when you buy it.

?

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Exactly this! I quoted this off the first page of this ridiculous discussion because it shows the answer to people who think scalping is going to be a big problem has already been explained. The number of Cybertrucks scalped for a high price is going to be inconsequential in terms of how many Tesla will be manufacturing within a few months of the start of high production.

Not only is the market very small for vehicles costing north of $100,000, but also, such a dynamic just can't last very long for a consumer vehicle manufactured in high volumes. Tesla plans to make huge numbers of Cybertrucks and to do it as quickly as humanly possible.

Scalping is inevitable but it's not a problem that won't be eliminated by a normal high-volume production ramp. I suggest that people who are concerned about scalping think more like a big automaker and less like small-time speculators. The former will make billions, the latter will be very short-lived.

Sooo, screw the early reservation holders they can just pay more? Is that what you mean? Scalping is inconsequential in an open market when the price is set at market clearance.

The reservation list creates a market restriction that excludes most of the market. This creates and added impetus for people to purchase in the “2nd hand market”.

How “Short term” do you think @Orge means? What are the factors contributing to the duration? I’m thinking the market conditions will take 2-4 years to balance supply and demand at an “affordable” price.

During that time an unprecedented market strategy that meets the unprecedented conditions is warranted if the priority is lower price instead of maximum profits. .

 

[Crissa]

Sooo, screw the early reservation holders they can just pay more?

You're the only one left suggesting that.

-Crissa

 

[ÆCIII]

Late to this particular forum, and I won't get too involved here except to say that if someone has preconceived intentions to 'flip' a Cybertruck they aren't appreciating it's revolutionary tech and substance anyway (and no doubt some people like that are out there).

Personally, I like the @BayouCityBob 's idea except I think the time period should be 24 months (or more) and not just 12.

I also have a personally enforced standard, where any Tesla I ever sell, will be only to Tesla or an individual that I know will keep and use it, and I will never sell it to a car dealer,

(So much for not getting 'too involved')...

- ÆCIII

 

[Deleted member 3316]

You're the only one left suggesting that.

-Crissa

No, I am reiterating what @HaulingAss just said.

Sooo, screw the early reservation holders they can just pay more? Is that what you mean? Scalping is inconsequential in an open market when the price is set at market clearance.

That is clearly a question to clarify the statement being replied to.

Why are you misquoting me?

 

[CyberGus]

Does Tesla currently has a market clearing pricing strategy. Yes/No

Supply and Demand is basically mediated by pricing and production capacity. Yes/No

You will not engage in what is classically considered parasitic profiteering. Yes/No

My main concern is keeping pricing low/close to reveal. YES/NO

That’s a long list of questions you’ve leveled at me. Are you sure you’re not sealioning?

 

[Deleted member 3316]

That’s a long list of questions you’ve leveled at me. Are you sure you’re not sealioning?

Just trying to have a constructive conversation.

If you cannot confer with a common base reality and interact with genuine questions then it’s not a conversation.

You all know I respond poorly to shitposting so I’m trying to highlight the three of you are not being genuine on this topic.

Your posts are normally FAF?.
If you’re just trolling… well done you got me. But I’d much rather a genuine interaction.

 

[HaulingAss]

No, I am reiterating what @HaulingAss just said.

No, you're not. I couldn't disagree with your wacky and unsupported notions any more than I already do. It looks like no one agrees with your wacky notions. So stop pretending like we do.

 

[Crissa]

Why are you misquoting me?

Because you just said it again over here:

https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...g-original-estimated-pricing.8106/post-145893

I am tired of you saying it, then saying I'm lying by repeating your actual words.

-Crissa

PS, and no, trying to meet demand by adding supply isn't any more a 'market clearing' strategy than it is a market based strategy. Clearing just means the market is in balance, which is basically impossible in a non-synthetic market.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Quote me directly Crissa, not your interpretation of what you think I mean.
Because otherwise you end up with nonsense I’ve quoted below.

Ask me some yes/no questions or contemplate some I have asked you.

They are honest questions to illicit your understanding.

PS, and no, trying to meet demand by adding supply isn't any more a 'market clearing' strategy than it is a market based strategy. Clearing just means the market is in balance, which is basically impossible in a non-synthetic market.

I’m trying to help you get your truck cheaper and potentially earlier, but you get stuck on your horror that scalping exists.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

No, you're not. I couldn't disagree with your wacky and unsupported notions any more than I already do. It looks like no one agrees with your wacky notions. So stop pretending like we do.

You don’t appear to understand what I have been suggesting. Or you are purposefully making out you don’t understand and misrepresenting it to derail discussion of an idea that threatens your capacity to make outsized profits on your reservations.

Ask a genuine question or if you actually understand what I’m talking about and are capable, steelman my proposal.

Are you capable?

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Late to this particular forum, and I won't get too involved here except to say that if someone has preconceived intentions to 'flip' a Cybertruck they aren't appreciating it's revolutionary tech and substance anyway (and no doubt some people like that are out there).

Personally, I like the @BayouCityBob 's idea except I think the time period should be 24 months and not just 12.

I also have a personally enforced standard, where any Tesla I ever sell, will be only to Tesla or an individual that I know will keep and use it, and I will never sell it to a car dealer,

(So much for not getting 'too involved')...

- ÆCIII

Why 24months?
What do you think the advantage is over 12months or 36months?
This strawpoll suggested 48 months might be acceptable to a large selection of the people actually looking to own and use it.

 

[ÆCIII]

Why 24months?
What do you think the advantage is over 12months or 36months?
This strawpoll suggested 48 months might be acceptable to a large selection of the people actually looking to own and use it.

To clarify, I didn't mean exactly 24 months, but at least 24 months, to possibly make scalping less likely.

Having to keep a CT longer would be more of a burden for intent scalpers, plus the VINs would be earlier ones alerting buyers if a scalper were trying to pawn it off as being 'new' with low mileage. If it had some greater mileage for the VIN or years, then the buyer should be smart enough to mandate a much lower price, thus mitigating potential for scalping.

I wouldn't mind 48 months at all, and would accept that easily. I was just saying that 12 months certainly doesn't go far enough IMO.

- ÆCIII

 

[HaulingAss]

Ask me some yes/no questions or contemplate some I have asked you.

I don't think anyone wants to play 20 questions with someone who continually complains that no one understands and continually deflects reasoned analysis.

Anyone who inspects the totallity of your arguments can come to no conslusion other than you are debating in bad faith.

I’m trying to help you get your truck cheaper and potentially earlier, but you get stuck on your horror that scalping exists.

I don't think you are capable of helping us get our Cybertrucks for a lower cost, that you think you can affect Cybertruck pricing is dillusional. The dynamics at play here are well beyond your control. Cybertruck will not be priced unreasonably high no matter how many times you pretend to understand pricing dynamics better than anyone else.

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