Tesla buys wireless-charging company "Wiferion"

[Crissa]

Honestly, I always assumed wireless charging was stupid.

It's... Not great, but it does work much better in places where the cords could be run over, or you need to connect or disconnect more quickly.

Think taxi stands, first responder bays, etc; you can use wireless charging where you'd otherwise queue up. So drive-throughs, carwashes... Or places where the vehicle charging is not next to the building - like a delivery vehicle at the loading dock. Or the queue at a weigh station or loading bay.

because you can't sell something you open sourced.

This ... is not true. You can't sell the license but you can sell the product it's made with.

What is true is that someone else can sell a competing product use the same source, since it's open.

And open licenses can have restrictions on whether they're used for profit or not or for specific uses.

You're apparently unaware that wireless charging can exceed the efficiency of wired charging. No offense.

I do not think this is true, though? I don't know the mechanism by which it could be true.

-Crissa

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[PilotPete]

All charging implementations in use right now (that I've seen anyway) show wired charging is still more (electrically) efficient than wireless.

- ÆCIII

If you really open your mind about wireless charging, The speed needs only to be around 65 miles/hour of charging. Why? Because at this point you can embed the chargers in the road and NEVER have to stop! I believe it’s TX that is looking at doing road embedded charging.

Yes I know, charging while moving is different than charging while stationary. But the concept of wireless for the car changes quite a bit. Even at slower speeds.

(Caution, MATH) Let’s say you have a car with a 250mi range. And charging for you gets you 30mi/hr. At a peed of 75mph you are only losing 45 mi/hr. So you now have a range of 5.5 hours, in which you now have travelled about 415 miles, in a car with only a 250 mile range. I don’t care who you are, you’re gonna need a bathroom break around 5.5 hours! (Carrying empty apple juice bottles is a whole different discussion) Your 303mile M3 is now covering 505 miles on a charge. Yes, I know that it may not pull the 30mi/hr charge when at 90%, so let’s just think “averages” here and not all the physics involved. And the more efficient the charging becomes, the greater your range. If you’re towing at 33% of non-towing efficiency (just making the math easy, relax) then your 450mile CT means you are getting somewhere north of 200 actual miles while towing, instead of the 150 you might normally get.

Just an idea here…

 

[SpaceYooper]

People freak out over 5g. I can't imagine what they will think of roads emanating EMFs into their vehicles.

 

[PilotPete]

People freak out over 5g. I can't imagine what they will think of roads emanating EMFs into their vehicles.

And yet they still buy new iPhones and Androids…

Besides, you have the batteries shielding you. But I can hear the tabloid TV stories now… “Are charging embedded roads causing an increase in colo-rectal cancers? Our investigation released at 7 tonight!”

 

[ÆCIII]

If you really open your mind about wireless charging, The speed needs only to be around 65 miles/hour of charging. Why? Because at this point you can embed the chargers in the road and NEVER have to stop! I believe it’s TX that is looking at doing road embedded charging.

Yes I know, charging while moving is different than charging while stationary. But the concept of wireless for the car changes quite a bit. Even at slower speeds.

(Caution, MATH) Let’s say you have a car with a 250mi range. And charging for you gets you 30mi/hr. At a peed of 75mph you are only losing 45 mi/hr. So you now have a range of 5.5 hours, in which you now have travelled about 415 miles, in a car with only a 250 mile range. I don’t care who you are, you’re gonna need a bathroom break around 5.5 hours! (Carrying empty apple juice bottles is a whole different discussion) Your 303mile M3 is now covering 505 miles on a charge. Yes, I know that it may not pull the 30mi/hr charge when at 90%, so let’s just think “averages” here and not all the physics involved. And the more efficient the charging becomes, the greater your range. If you’re towing at 33% of non-towing efficiency (just making the math easy, relax) then your 450mile CT means you are getting somewhere north of 200 actual miles while towing, instead of the 150 you might normally get.

Just an idea here…

I like ideas.

But I don't think embedded charging coils in roadways will ever be a practical solution for widespread use anytime soon. While the technology does couple power, it still has long way to go for actual usefulness to EV travelers.

I was surprised and laughing at how certain MSM networks and publishers were hyping a recent 'test' as a breakthrough of some kind, where a modified Toyota RAV4 drove around a track with wireless embedded charging, for over 1200 miles without recharging.

https://www.cnet.com/home/hybrid-toyota-drove-in-electric-mode-for-100-hours-non-stop/

Sounds awesome right? Until you read carefully that they took 100 hours of driving (and 56 drivers) to do it. Never mind the 56 drivers - just stick a bent thrill-seeker in the driver's seat with some wide-awake drugs and catch bottle/bag and they're 'good to go'. Probably much safer than putting someone in an untested carbon fibre vessel at extreme depth pressures without any safety certifications - but I digress and may they RIP.

But seriously - what I'm really pointing out is the 100 hours it took for the modified RAV4 to go that distance.

That's only 12 miles per hour.

They were on a track, so why couldn't they do said test faster at 60mph or 80mph?

You can drive 1206 miles in a Tesla right now including supercharger stops, in only 24 hours easily.

Hypermiling testers got 600 miles out of a Model 3 on one charge, in only 32 hours of driving:

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-model-3-hypermiling-record/

So even with one additional full recharge the Tesla could do another 600 miles and reach the same distance of the RAV4 test, in less than 70 hours total at their proven hypermiling speed. 1200 miles in 70 hours while also not very practical, is still way more useful than a 12mph charging creep for 100 hours.

So while the modified RAV4 test was a basic and Minimal proof of concept, that demonstration is a long way from proving practical usefulness of the embedded wireless technology at its current state. It simply is not useful at that slow of a speed.

Even if they did get it to work at high speeds, embedding it into roads would be Extremely Cost Prohibitive, both in labor/reconstruction of payment surfaces, and also the power distribution lines required. It would also be a maintenance nightmare if sections need repair or replacing, because you have to tear up and block the road sections to fix it. Electric power efficiency is also lost when stretching endpoint power voltages over long distances, and the wiring and transformers to compensate for that would also be very costly. Then you're also limiting drivers to go only where the charging embedded road surfaces are if they need to charge.

There are so many things wrong in with Actual Implementation of embedded roadway wireless charging, and all those challenges would have to be solved.

Actual Implementation at Scale are the key words here. Until someone can demonstrate they've overcome those challenges and can make it a practical useful alternative, such technology can only be hyped in lab test articles.

In my previous posts, I was referring to what we've seen successfully implemented at scale today.

This post has nothing to do with wireless charging over pads integrated in charging stalls while parked, as I do think there are a lot of feasible implementations with those methods, even if they might not be 100 percent efficient as direct connected cables.​

- ÆCIII

 

[C T Rick]

Does this mean my phone and watch will charge while I walk down the street?

I can see the hair on my arm standing up.

Rick

 

[charliemagpie]

Tesla will make Neuralink pillows lol

 

[jerhenderson]

Agreed. I love the accusation about how people who want wireless charging are stupid and lazy, but then is ignorant of the technological developments in the area. ?

that wasn't the post claim specifically .... I took it as there are many dumb and lazy people, and he's not wrong. in managing a strata complex , I see garbage bags full of tin cans and batteries galore thrown into the trash.... daily.

 

[tidmutt]

that wasn't the post claim specifically .... I took it as there are many dumb and lazy people, and he's not wrong. in managing a strata complex , I see garbage bags full of tin cans and batteries galore thrown into the trash.... daily.

Of course, there are stupid and lazy people. However, reliable, efficient wireless charging would be a boon and useful for robotaxi scenarios, street parking, and just about everywhere. Imagine if a large percentage of parking spots had wireless charging embedded where it simply charged your account anytime you parked, automatically (unless you don't want or need a charge). Extremely useful and would help drive adoption.

 

[FarAway]

Induction charging pads would be awesome!

Though, I admit I still run away after hitting "START" on the microwave.

 

[tidmutt]

It's... Not great, but it does work much better in places where the cords could be run over, or you need to connect or disconnect more quickly.

Think taxi stands, first responder bays, etc; you can use wireless charging where you'd otherwise queue up. So drive-throughs, carwashes... Or places where the vehicle charging is not next to the building - like a delivery vehicle at the loading dock. Or the queue at a weigh station or loading bay.

I do not think this is true, though? I don't know the mechanism by which it could be true.

-Crissa

https://spectrum.mit.edu/spring-2015/charging-ahead-a-new-method-for-wireless-power-transfer/

An old article about a spinoff from MIT.

They are still around:

https://witricity.com/products/automotive-solutions/

https://witricity.com/technology/why-magnetic-resonance/


No idea what tech the company Tesla bought uses.

 

[FutureBoy]

And yet they still buy new iPhones and Androids…

Besides, you have the batteries shielding you. But I can hear the tabloid TV stories now… “Are charging embedded roads causing an increase in colo-rectal cancers? Our investigation released at 7 tonight!”

EVs have the battery under the seats. So you can get the same battery shielding as you describe for the cell phones.

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