Fleetwood75

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I own a four plex and have contacted the power company to see if I could get an additional power drop to my parking spaces. I intend to buy a meter and electrify the parking car ports. I will charge an "Electric Vehicle" fee to provide the charging infrastructure and the power as I cannot charge for the electricity. I look at this a benefit that can increase my rental demand for little investment.
Will you install the new Universal Tesla charger that also supports J1772, or just 240V outlets and let the tenants use their own level 2 charger?
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I've been in apartments for 3 of the past 4 years of owning a Tesla. You just pay the extra $15/month for the garage and use the outlet for the garage door opener. Unless you commute more than 60 miles a day you can refill every night on the standard outlet.
 

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Will you install the new Universal Tesla charger that also supports J1772, or just 240V outlets and let the tenants use their own level 2 charger?
I have not gotten that far yet. So far, none of the tenants have a BEV. May just start with a 220V outlet.
 

Fleetwood75

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I wonder what he energy loss would be of a wireless pad vs a wired connection
Inductive charging energy loss is on the order of 25% for wireless phone chargers, and those have a pretty small gap between the coils, like a few millimeters. I’d expect the losses to be much worse with an approximately 1 foot gap between the mat and the bottom of the truck. Efficiency falls off exponentially as the air gap distance grows, as I understand it
 


Fleetwood75

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I have not gotten that far yet. So far, none of the tenants have a BEV. May just start with a 220V outlet.
Yeah I’d think that’s the way to go. Once the power is run you can always swap out the receptacle for a charger, that’s easy.
 

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Inductive charging energy loss is on the order of 25% for wireless phone chargers, and those have a pretty small gap between the coils, like a few millimeters. I’d expect the losses to be much worse with an approximately 1 foot gap between the mat and the bottom of the truck. Efficiency falls off exponentially as the air gap distance grows, as I understand it
Yeah, I get the correlation between phones and cars, and why you might expect it. BUT, it appears you'd be wrong. This is from Wiferion (formerly a Tesla owned company)... 93% efficiency.

Tesla Cybertruck Tesla Inductive Charging Pad (wireless) is in development! Screenshot 2023-12-19 at 10.56.26 AM
 

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Inductive vs. Resonant Charging Efficiency
Inductive charging systems typically have an efficiency rate ranging from 85% to 90%, while resonant charging systems can achieve efficiency rates up to 95% or even higher⁷.

The increased efficiency of resonant charging systems can be attributed to their ability to transfer power over a greater distance and with more precise alignment between the transmitter and receiver coils. This allows for higher power transfer rates, which ultimately translates to faster charging times for EVs.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/revolutionizing-electric-vehicles-wireless-charging-carter-williams/
 

Crissa

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1. no external cables to break or vandalize
2. no special connector
3. EV-only parking spaces
4. billing via car handshake

Infrastructure funding is an issue, but this must happen if we plan to transition to a renewable future. The EV world has distributed charging, not fixed gas stations.
  1. It still needs an external display to tell its status, tho its cable could be cemented in place. Inductor wins here, but doesn't reduce installation cost.
  2. It is a special connector - a bigger one that eats your ground clearance.
  3. They're both EV parking spaces
  4. Requires separate wireless network to handshake
But yeah, EV charging just needs more, cheap connections, for when cars are doing their sitting around. Stand-alone stations are only for road trips or augmenting when L1 and L2 destination charging isn't sufficient. Induction provides alternative hot-swap charging possibilities to augment this.

It just doesn't help the 'special connector' or 'installation cost' items.

I have not gotten that far yet. So far, none of the tenants have a BEV. May just start with a 220V outlet.
Chicken and egg problem. They won't buy a BEV unless they know they can charge it.

-Crissa
 


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Apartments and condos just need 120v outlets at each space. Easier to install. Then they can plug in every day and get enough to drive to work. If they need a full tank quick then they will need to go to a supercharger.
 

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Apartments and condos just need 120v outlets at each space. Easier to install. Then they can plug in every day and get enough to drive to work. If they need a full tank quick then they will need to go to a supercharger.
Meh. That's a half measure. I wouldn't waste time with 120 on a new install when you can just pull 240 and be done with it.
 

Crissa

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Meh. That's a half measure. I wouldn't waste time with 120 on a new install when you can just pull 240 and be done with it.
You wouldn't waste time with 120v lighting?

Wouldn't waste time?

It's the amps that matter, but a 120v would just be more common. I put in 240v, but it's still only carrying a few amps, because of how long the run is.

You can just string more 120v 20a outlets with the same amount of copper and service drop than you can 240v or higher amperage. A 30a service ten spaces down is going to need 6ga wire while that 6ga wire could provide the full 50a to the first parking space.

It gets complicated, expensive, fast.

-Crissa
 
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REM

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You wouldn't waste time with 120v lighting?

Wouldn't waste time?

It's the amps that matter, but a 120v would just be more common. I put in 240v, but it's still only carrying a few amps, because of how long the run is.

You can just string more 120v 20a outlets with the same amount of copper and service drop than you can 240v or higher amperage. A 30a service ten spaces down is going to need 6ga wire while that 6ga wire could provide the full 50a to the first parking space.

It gets complicated, expensive, fast.

-Crissa
Yeah, scale is the point I was making. There is no reason to spend the money and effort required to pull permits and hire contractors to bust up concrete, place conduit, re-pour, etc. if all you are going to provide is 3-6 mph charging lol. If people are smart, they would also invest in quality level 2 chargers like Tesla provides so they can powershare on the same circuit.

If the power source is already there and you are basically just tapping into it and extending, sure. Still a band-aid fix though. The first few weeks with my M3 in the city were quite miserable because I only had 110, 15 amp available. I was cutting it close every single day. That immediately disappeared when I tapped into 240v 50 amp.
 
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Crissa

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Yeah, scale is the point I was making. There is no reason to spend the money and effort required to pull permits and hire contractors to bust up concrete, place conduit, re-pour, etc. if all you are going to provide is 3-6 mph charging lol. If people are smart, they would also invest in quality level 2 chargers like Tesla provides so they can powershare on the same circuit.

If the power source is already there and you are basically just tapping into it and extended, sure. Still a band-aid fix though. The first few weeks with my M3 in the city were quite miserable because I only had 110, 15 amp available. I was cutting it close every single day. That immediately disappeared when I tapped into 240v 50 amp.
Most vehicles in apartment parking will get from 5-30 miles per hour from a standard 120v outlet, tho. Like, my Zero gets 17. Most e-bikes get more. You're only going to be limited to 3 in the largest, least efficient vehicles; and that's still adding 13,000 miles a year.

This idea that there's no utility - when most vehicles sit there twelve hours or more at a time - to reversing phantom drain and making the vehicles able to maintain their readiness is a shift in attitudes we need.

-Crissa
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