Self Sustaining System alternative to Living Vehicle

[ςyb3®tЯμ¢kℓ|gh†n!ng]

So I saw the Living Vehicle RV and the $800,000 model was a bit out of my budget so I thought, how could I do it on my own.

You could buy a trailer of your choice.
Then install the following:
Water generator
$3,000
https://us.watergen.com/mobility/watergen-mobile-box/
Which is what the Living vehicle uses or will be using. The mobile box can produce up to 20 liters of water a day so you hook that up and then pump the water into your potable water storage. Only problem is that I can't seem to find distributors in the united states.
You can power it using electricity from your solar system installed on the roof, battery storage and or cybertruck.
Electric Toilet
Around $2000
https://incinolet.com/
It produces waste that can be used as fertilizer. Anybody have experience using these? I figure it would remove the requirement of having to stop at a station to dispose of waste.
Both of these things would require a pretty powerful solar system and/or a large battery bank.

Found an equivalent solar kit which matches the highest tier on the living vehicle.
https://sunwatts.com/4kw-solar-kit-solaria-400-xl-enphase-micro-inverter/
$10,500
Not sure about the capacity because their website on their top model indicates 72 kwh, but without the voltage I don't know what it's true capacity is.
If it's at 12 volts then the below would be a start at 800 ah at $10,000
https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/battle-born-energy-towable-50a-gc3-kit
If you wanted to match it exactly then:
https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/270ah-12v-lifepo4-deep-cycle-gc3-battery/
Buy 19 more of them at $2499 which is a additional $48,036.33 to match the capacity.

So your total cost is your base trailer + $73536.33.

There are plenty of competitors that would end up well below the $800,000.

But with this system you would be able to mostly live without having to connect to electricity, to retrieve water, or to dump waste. You could perpetually live off the grid. Use the solar to charge the cybertuck and use the cybertruck to power the vehicle and you could eliminate the $48036.33. Can somebody who works at Tesla weigh in on the battery capacity of the cybertruck? There is speculation that it'll be at 200 kwh which is more than double of what Living Vehicle is offering. But even if it is half that amount it would be enough.

Anybody know of better ways to accomplish this or to reduce costs? Also please provide any flaws with this strategy if you see any.

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[HaulingAss]

The water maker, at nearly 1.7 kWh per gallon I would have to take a hard pass on. Most applications would probably be better off with a 30 gallon tank and a way to filter surface water to make it potable. When designing systems like this it's almost always better to figure out how to use less power than how to make and store more power.

 

[cvalue13]

Also please provide any flaws with this strategy if you see any.

I wouldn’t say it’s a flaw, but the “strategy” is akin to boiling down a Ferrari to it’s horsepower, brakes, steering wheel, and seats, then saying “if I drop the right crate motor, BremBo breaks, and race seats in kit car frame, what am I missing?” Nothing and everything.

obviously the LV has a lot more going on than the central headline components on which you’re focused, and combining all those things into user-friendly and thoughtfully designed finished product for which people are willing to pay for the fit, finish, and design of the LV

I’m not here trying to defend the headline price of the LV: but fundamentally they charge that much because they can only produce [X] a year, and they’ll sell every one of them, and in advance of build

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

For me it would be too much at 1/4 the price. Gee, I’m marginal with the CT cost.

 

[ςyb3®tЯμ¢kℓ|gh†n!ng]

The water maker, at nearly 1.7 kWh per gallon I would have to take a hard pass on. Most applications would probably be better off with a 30 gallon tank and a way to filter surface water to make it potable. When designing systems like this it's almost always better to figure out how to use less power than how to make and store more power.

I wouldn’t say it’s a flaw, but the “strategy” is akin to boiling down a Ferrari to it’s horsepower, brakes, steering wheel, and seats, then saying “if I drop the right crate motor, BremBo breaks, and race seats in kit car frame, what am I missing?” Nothing and everything.

obviously the LV has a lot more going on than the central headline components on which you’re focused, and combining all those things into user-friendly and thoughtfully designed finished product for which people are willing to pay for the fit, finish, and design of the LV

I’m not here trying to defend the headline price of the LV: but fundamentally they charge that much because they can only produce [X] a year, and they’ll sell every one of them, and in advance of build

Is the rest of the trailer really made with higher quality materials?
https://www.granddesignrv.com/toy-haulers/momentum/376ths
For example: A brand new top of the line trailer from Grand Design runs you under $200,000. If you were to take install your own stuff, on that, it's still way under. And atleast at surface value, it seems to be higher quality than life vehicle. And yes I know you'd have to find space on the trailer to accommodate the space and weight of the batteries.

I also understand that they are a new business so they have to price appropriately and they don't have the production capacity of the more popular manufacturers and have costs associated with their build factory, etc.

As a consumer that can't afford that, I'm exploring how to accomplish their concept, exceed it a bit with a toilet that doesn't require connecting to the grid at all at a significantly lower price point. It will require alot of my own time to install/learn/make mistakes etc. Now if my time was better spent making a significantly large amount of money instead of doing that, then only would it be worth purchasing from them.

 

[ςyb3®tЯμ¢kℓ|gh†n!ng]

The water maker, at nearly 1.7 kWh per gallon I would have to take a hard pass on. Most applications would probably be better off with a 30 gallon tank and a way to filter surface water to make it potable. When designing systems like this it's almost always better to figure out how to use less power than how to make and store more power.

Yikes, that's alot. Where'd you find that number? Did you take the liters per day number and use the max consumption to calculate it?

 

[cvalue13]

Is the rest of the trailer really made with higher quality materials?
https://www.granddesignrv.com/toy-haulers/momentum/376ths
For example: A brand new top of the line trailer from Grand Design runs you under $200,000. If you were to take install your own stuff, on that, it's still way under. And atleast at surface value, it seems to be higher quality than life vehicle. And yes I know you'd have to find space on the trailer to accommodate the space and weight of the batteries..

I really can't say, not being familiar with alternatives and being only moderately familiar with the LV.

I spent an hour or so in what must have been a 2020 LV unit. materials choices were seemingly top-notch, and largely all marine grade. more than that, there was a thoughtfulness regarding use of space and serviceability that was very well thought out in terms of maximizing space and utility in a small package.

the owners are a couple, the guy an architect by training, and if I remember correctly his background was included some time doing architecture of luxury yachts (before later transitioning to doing airstreams)

the LV had that sort of luxury yacht kind of design approach in materials and functionaliy

some folks will pay for it

 

[fhteagle]

RO'ing water with proper filters is likely to be more cost efficient, and power efficient. Use the atmospheric water generator only as backup, last minute stretch, "dump load" if solar is over producing, etc.

There are definitely cheaper batteries and power systems available if you shop around. Will Prowse has reviewed dozens, if not hundreds of each.

But other than that, your concept to DIY vs purchase is valid. If they can make it, so can you.

 

[HaulingAss]

Yikes, that's alot. Where'd you find that number? Did you take the liters per day number and use the max consumption to calculate it?

Did you look at the specs on the page you posted?

As I recall, I used Avg. consumption/hour x 24 hours/gallons per day.

 

[HaulingAss]

RO'ing water with proper filters is likely to be more cost efficient, and power efficient. Use the atmospheric water generator only as backup, last minute stretch, "dump load" if solar is over producing, etc.

In a mobile application, you do not want to haul around extra weight, for example, an atmospheric water generator that is only used when there was excess solar power generation. With solar, there is no need for a "dump load", you can just choose to not use all the electricity available.

Because weight matters and it is all additive.

When I'm motorcycle touring, I'm always amazed at how over-loaded so many motorhomes are as they lumber up steep mountain grades at slow speeds with their engines at full churn, belching out big clouds of black diesel as they go slowly up the hill with the smell of burning brakes as they careen around corners on the descent.

I breeze on by on my 500 lb. motorcycle with 30 lbs. of clothing and personals thinking, "boy, they must really like all that crap they cary with them to pay all the money in diesel and brake pads to bring it with them wherever they go."

The truth of the matter is most people don't even understand the relationship of throwing in another 30 lbs. of weight and how that impacts the engine and brakes and tires. They don't have a good understand of how it's all additive (and then some, because as you approach the rated limits, things start going to hell). Most people feel more comfortable if they surround themselves with a bunch of heavy crap that was not designed with weight in mind.

I like riding my motorcycle places and realizing I'm self-sufficient with just the things I have with me. And, no, I don't bring a spare wheel and tire, just a tiny plug kit and a stripped down 12V inflater. Works great when I'm in the middle of nowhere and realize my tire is not holding air.

 

[CyberGus]

I breeze on by on my 500 lb. motorcycle with 30 lbs. of clothing and personals thinking, "boy, they must really like all that crap they carry with them to pay all the money in diesel and brake pads to bring it with them wherever they go."

The truth of the matter is most people don't even understand the relationship of throwing in another 30 lbs. of weight and how that impacts the engine and brakes and tires. They don't have a good understand of how it's all additive (and then some, because as you approach the rated limits, things start going to hell). Most people feel more comfortable if they surround themselves with a bunch of heavy crap that was not designed with weight in mind.

I like riding my motorcycle places and realizing I'm self-sufficient with just the things I have with me. And, no, I don't bring a spare wheel and tire, just a tiny plug kit and a stripped down 12V inflater. Works great when I'm in the middle of nowhere and realize my tire is not holding air.

 

[ςyb3®tЯμ¢kℓ|gh†n!ng]

I really can't say, not being familiar with alternatives and being only moderately familiar with the LV.

I spent an hour or so in what must have been a 2020 LV unit. materials choices were seemingly top-notch, and largely all marine grade. more than that, there was a thoughtfulness regarding use of space and serviceability that was very well thought out in terms of maximizing space and utility in a small package.

the owners are a couple, the guy an architect by training, and if I remember correctly his background was included some time doing architecture of luxury yachts (before later transitioning to doing airstreams)

the LV had that sort of luxury yacht kind of design approach in materials and functionaliy

some folks will pay for it

Yeah, I'm sure there is a market for it. The outside material appears atleast from the pictures to also be of higher quality. Not denying that at all. I'm curious how much Lightship RV will cost which you can tell isn't made by people with experience in this area which also appears to be going for that luxury look, has solar, an electric drivetrain but no water generator.

 

[ςyb3®tЯμ¢kℓ|gh†n!ng]

Did you look at the specs on the page you posted?

As I recall, I used Avg. consumption/hour x 24 hours/gallons per day.

You can get to 0.22916666666666666666666666666667 gallons per hour. from the 5.5 specification.
Then if you assume the consumption rate is hourly at 350 watts/hour.
Take the watts/hour and divide by the gallons per hour and you get 1527.2727272727272727272727272727 Watts per Gallon

 

[John K]

You lost me at emptying the honey pot

 

[HaulingAss]

You can get to 0.22916666666666666666666666666667 gallons per hour. from the 5.5 specification.
Then if you assume the consumption rate is hourly at 350 watts/hour.
Take the watts/hour and divide by the gallons per hour and you get 1527.2727272727272727272727272727 Watts per Gallon

Yeah, that's what I said, nearly 1.7 kWh per gallon.

And it will probably be even more innefficient in areas with less humidity in the air. The humidity and dew point are going to have a major influence on how much water it produces per kWh. Also, I think you need relatively unpolluted air to use a water generator as a potable water source because such a process will also concentrate many airborn toxins. Don't try this downwind of an oil refinery!

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