Cybertruck Range: Losing the Story

[Woodrick]

False. The silverado is lower drag coefficient than the cybertruck:
"The EV's futuristic design contributes to a slippery drag coefficient of 0.33, making it the most aerodynamic GM truck extant, but there's no mistaking this rig for anything but a Silverado."

For those not paying attention, CT is 0.34.

That took a long time to trim on my phone.

IMHO, the Cybertruck is aimed at the 80% use case of a 3/4 ton pickup. It's not intended for the 1 1/4 size truck as you have.
More specifically, it's aimed at getting EV penetration beyond the car market, and that then means the Ford F-150.
So when Tesla looks at the market leader, they have to determine what it will take to entice those buyers and who are those buyers.
That's not someone hauling 400 miles on a regular basis, that's not someone traveling even 200 miles daily.
That's the lawn care folks pulling a couple of zero turns. That's contractors at building sites. And by a huge margin, that's your mall crawlers.
There's a market for the big haulers, that's the niche that the Semi fits in.
They can't solve all the worlds problems at once.
The 1 1/4 - 2 1/4 ton markets aren't that big and aren't where Tesla can get the best bang per buck. They'll probably get there, but not yet.

So, for your needs, it definitely sounds as if the Cybertruck isn't where you need to go. Even if it had 500 mile range, it may not be able to haul the load.

People are looking at hauling 35ft campers, I'm not sure if it will fit these needs unless a nearby campground. Lots depend on how nasty the trailers impact the coefficient of friction.

But when you leave rural Texas and head into Austin or Dallas, you see thousands of pickups that don't have a scratch in the bed, or hitch shanks that don't have any rust.

If you want a more of a gentleman to farmer's truck that you haul the hay nails to the livestock and drive to Church on Sunday and carrying the family to the big city every few months, that could be the Cybertruck.

It's not for everyone. And as Elon has said numerous times, if Chevy and Ford can outsell him with EVs, then he has succeeded.

I hope the Silverado will beat the pants off of the Cybertruck in sales.
My beef is that I have learned to not trust any of the pre release information that the marketing department dreams up the engineers hate.
It's only real when it can be touched.

And that's why I never really expected that the Cybertruck would hit it's goals. They honestly got a lot closer than I expected.

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[cyberhunter]

That took a long time to trim on my phone.

IMHO, the Cybertruck is aimed at the 80% use case of a 3/4 ton pickup. It's not intended for the 1 1/4 size truck as you have.
More specifically, it's aimed at getting EV penetration beyond the car market, and that then means the Ford F-150.
So when Tesla looks at the market leader, they have to determine what it will take to entice those buyers and who are those buyers.
That's not someone hauling 400 miles on a regular basis, that's not someone traveling even 200 miles daily.
That's the lawn care folks pulling a couple of zero turns. That's contractors at building sites. And by a huge margin, that's your mall crawlers.
There's a market for the big haulers, that's the niche that the Semi fits in.
They can't solve all the worlds problems at once.
The 1 1/4 - 2 1/4 ton markets aren't that big and aren't where Tesla can get the best bang per buck. They'll probably get there, but not yet.

So, for your needs, it definitely sounds as if the Cybertruck isn't where you need to go. Even if it had 500 mile range, it may not be able to haul the load.

People are looking at hauling 35ft campers, I'm not sure if it will fit these needs unless a nearby campground. Lots depend on how nasty the trailers impact the coefficient of friction.

But when you leave rural Texas and head into Austin or Dallas, you see thousands of pickups that don't have a scratch in the bed, or hitch shanks that don't have any rust.

If you want a more of a gentleman to farmer's truck that you haul the hay nails to the livestock and drive to Church on Sunday and carrying the family to the big city every few months, that could be the Cybertruck.

It's not for everyone. And as Elon has said numerous times, if Chevy and Ford can outsell him with EVs, then he has succeeded.

I hope the Silverado will beat the pants off of the Cybertruck in sales.
My beef is that I have learned to not trust any of the pre release information that the marketing department dreams up the engineers hate.
It's only real when it can be touched.

And that's why I never really expected that the Cybertruck would hit it's goals. They honestly got a lot closer than I expected.

Please don't take this as an insult, but you are obviously not an experienced or informed truck person. A Ram 2500, Ford F250, etc. is a 3/4 ton truck. A Ram 3500 or Ford F350 is a 1 ton truck. A Ram 1500 or F150 is a half ton truck. That is the terminology. Most of my buddies have either half ton trucks or 3/4 ton trucks. They could all make the use case I described with ease. If the CT is meant to be "more truck than current trucks", it needs to be able to do things that current trucks do. It appears to have all that capability, and I'm sure reviews will show how well it handles payload and towing for short distances. It's just that Tesla seems to have fallen way short on the range thing. I get why they did it. I'm just disappointed. I started my research way back when the CT was first announced. We were all expecting a 175 kWhr pack. This 123kwhr pack is just a smidge on the small side if you consider payload. If Tesla had made the truck with the pack the size that the range extender gets it to (170kWhr), then I think they would have fallen short of their stated goal of 500+ miles, but hit it out of the park on the truck overall. Everything but the range appears to be excellent They compromised and I predict it will show that in reviews on range under load in the coming weeks and months. If the range extender didn't take up so much damn space then it could have been good enough to fit more actual truck people use cases (just way too expensive compared to expectations that Tesla themselves set).

 

[Woodrick]

Please don't take this as an insult, but you are obviously not an experienced or informed truck person. A Ram 2500, Ford F250, etc. is a 3/4 ton truck. A Ram 3500 or Ford F250 is a 1 ton truck. A Ram 1500 or F150 is a half ton truck. That is the terminology. Most of my buddies have either half ton trucks or 3/4 ton trucks.

Sorry I was wrong, you are right. I know that I should have used the 150/1500 numbers instead, by the way where did they come from?

And as I said before I agree that it won't work for you.

But I really don't think that you should assume that towing is going to mean 50% reduction in range. That all depends on what you are towing. My boat dropped my Model Y to about 25% of it's normal range. But I was still able to make a 1000 mile trip with it in tow.

 

[PilotPete]

False. The silverado is lower drag coefficient than the cybertruck:
"The EV's futuristic design contributes to a slippery drag coefficient of 0.33, making it the most aerodynamic GM truck extant, but there's no mistaking this rig for anything but a Silverado."

For those not paying attention, CT is 0.34.

And for those paying CLOSE attention, the CyberTruck Cd=0.335

 

[HaulingAss]

One thing is for sure, Tesla is going to sell all the CTs they can manufacture for the next couple of years... and perhaps by the time they can saturate that initial part of the market who wants a CT for the cool/chic/fashion factor they will be able to increase the range and lower the price to target the next market segment.

Eventually Tesla will release a 500-mile Cybertruck but what will really change the game is for Tesla to continue expanding the reach and breadth of the Supercharger network with new DC fast chargers in pull-through stalls.

 

[Crissa]

...And finding a place to charge a Tesla isn't difficult. Anyone who says otherwise is basically trolling.

I get nervous when I have to ask to charge my Zero, but... So far I've only been refused by a couple places. Places that shouldn't, mostly.

Places that had no reason to say yes? They say yes.

-Crissa

 

[RVAC]

What a lot of people are forgetting when they claim Tesla let us all down on the range is that only a minority of reservations were for the 500-mile Tri-motor version and the Dual Motor that most of us ordered exceeds the announced EPA range of 300+ miles by 40 miles.

That's false, the split in reservations according to the tracker was pretty much even between 500mi and 300mi variants.

 

[HaulingAss]

That's false, the split in reservations according to the tracker was pretty much even between 500mi and 300mi variants.

Even the tracker data showed that less than half the reservations were for Tri-Motor. That's a minority. And I think the reservation tracker almost certainly leaned towards Tesla enthusiasts who were more affluent and more likely to buy the top-spec Cybertruck.

Now give us your reasons why you think it's false that a minority of reservations were for tri-motor.

 

[Woodrick]

Even the tracker data showed that less than half the reservations were for Tri-Motor. That's a minority. And I think the reservation tracker almost certainly leaned towards Tesla enthusiasts who were more affluent and more likely to buy the top-spec Cybertruck.

Now give us your reasons why you think it's false that a minority of reservations were for tri-motor.

My response is because you are possibly going to get it 6 months before the Beast.

 

[HaulingAss]

My response is because you are possibly going to get it 6 months before the Beast.

I think your comment reflects a misunderstanding of what was said.

 

[PilotPete]

And for those that know math and aren’t cyberdicks, it’s called rounding to the most commonly used significant digit.

Really? Are you THAT sensitive?

Ok, let's talk rounding. Why not round to .3? And if you want to argue about the "most commonly used significant digit", we can compare your day-to-day usage with Cd numbers and mine. Then we can discuss everyone's interpretation of "commonly used" and in what business and whether that means hack journalists, internet keyboard warriors, engineers, professionals who use these numbers for their livelihood, and so on. Then we can argue about what is "significant" and who gets to make that determination, and at what speeds "significant" crosses someone's threshold and becomes significant. And then we can argue that quite possibly the Silverado's Cd might have been rounded down from 0.334 (using your reasoning) and the delta between the two really isn't "significant". Then we can discuss the fact that Tesla thought it was "significant" to use in the event video. And then...

Or you can accept that I clarified your "comment" in fun, and cut the delta you were advertising in half, and that your response MAY have been a bit of acting like a "cyberdick" yourself, and we can move on and just enjoy all the choices that are out there. A lot of "truck people" like Chevys, and the Silverado EV will sell to them. A lot of people like the CT, and it will sell to them. There is a butt for every seat. I mean, you ARE on a CT fan site. Or maybe you just want to be a troll or a hater or whatever, in which case, I can easily put the appropriate amount of weight to your discussions.

I meant no disrespect in my original comment. You have my apology if it sounded that way. But I find your response less than "significant".

 

[Coolbreeze704]

Really? Are you THAT sensitive?

Ok, let's talk rounding. Why not round to .3? And if you want to argue about the "most commonly used significant digit", we can compare your day-to-day usage with Cd numbers and mine. Then we can discuss everyone's interpretation of "commonly used" and in what business and whether that means hack journalists, internet keyboard warriors, engineers, professionals who use these numbers for their livelihood, and so on. Then we can argue about what is "significant" and who gets to make that determination, and at what speeds "significant" crosses someone's threshold and becomes significant. And then we can argue that quite possibly the Silverado's Cd might have been rounded down from 0.334 (using your reasoning) and the delta between the two really isn't "significant". Then we can discuss the fact that Tesla thought it was "significant" to use in the event video. And then...

Or you can accept that I clarified your "comment" in fun, and cut the delta you were advertising in half, and that your response MAY have been a bit of acting like a "cyberdick" yourself, and we can move on and just enjoy all the choices that are out there. A lot of "truck people" like Chevys, and the Silverado EV will sell to them. A lot of people like the CT, and it will sell to them. There is a butt for every seat. I mean, you ARE on a CT fan site. Or maybe you just want to be a troll or a hater or whatever, in which case, I can easily put the appropriate amount of weight to your discussions.

I meant no disrespect in my original comment. You have my apology if it sounded that way. But I find your response less than "significant".

Wonder if I can find an avatar for a cyberdick. Could stand out on this forum.

 

[cyberhunter]

Really? Are you THAT sensitive?

Ok, let's talk rounding. Why not round to .3? And if you want to argue about the "most commonly used significant digit", we can compare your day-to-day usage with Cd numbers and mine. Then we can discuss everyone's interpretation of "commonly used" and in what business and whether that means hack journalists, internet keyboard warriors, engineers, professionals who use these numbers for their livelihood, and so on. Then we can argue about what is "significant" and who gets to make that determination, and at what speeds "significant" crosses someone's threshold and becomes significant. And then we can argue that quite possibly the Silverado's Cd might have been rounded down from 0.334 (using your reasoning) and the delta between the two really isn't "significant". Then we can discuss the fact that Tesla thought it was "significant" to use in the event video. And then...

Or you can accept that I clarified your "comment" in fun, and cut the delta you were advertising in half, and that your response MAY have been a bit of acting like a "cyberdick" yourself, and we can move on and just enjoy all the choices that are out there. A lot of "truck people" like Chevys, and the Silverado EV will sell to them. A lot of people like the CT, and it will sell to them. There is a butt for every seat. I mean, you ARE on a CT fan site. Or maybe you just want to be a troll or a hater or whatever, in which case, I can easily put the appropriate amount of weight to your discussions.

I meant no disrespect in my original comment. You have my apology if it sounded that way. But I find your response less than "significant".

I accept your apology and I do owe you one. You are right. I responded in a mean and not constructive manner. I was getting irritated at a bunch of the fanboys/apologists defending beyond all reason the disappointing range numbers and what appears to be (so far) quite disappointing charging statistics. I'm sorry for the language and I shoudn't have been so snarky.

Cd of the SilvErado is 0.331. CT 0.335. Rivian 0.30, Lightning, 0.44, Hummer 0.5. The CT is on the low end, but is definitely not the best in class on cD. Some here think everything about the CT is best in class and will defend that position despite any and all facts that point otherwise. I joined the site back in 2020 when I put in my reservation to get information about the CT and how it was developing, not to be a fan that can't accept facts or to be given misinformation from fans and I make no apologies for that. The site is cybertruckowners club, not cybertruckfans club IIRC.

I love many, many things about the CT and what was delivered. There are a few things that are coming out now that they are in the wild that will be disappointing for the unaware buyer. That is the same with pretty much any vehicle...no vehicle is perfect. This thread is just pointing to probably the biggest one and that is useable range. If someone is thinking to replace a truck, they are used to getting at least 500 miles of useable range driving the highway at highway speeds. Some trucks as much as 700 miles. Load down the bed and the range drops very little. Put a trailer on it and it drops more. Get an poor aero utility trailer for instance and the useable range I would expect to be somewhere between 350 to 400 miles for a decent ICE truck. This issue is that unladen, the CT is only getting 210 useable miles of driving on the highway. I know the range test was 254 miles, but that was 100% to dead...so really 203 miles to go from 90 to 10.

You add heavy cargo in the bed (tonneau closed) and I think the hit is not that bad, but you will be more like 190 miles useable range...can push it a bit more but no one would want to do that on the regular. I predict that towing with the CT at highway speeds will be great from an experience standpoint, but abysmal with regards to range. Depending on drag, it will be anywhere from 150 to 175 miles absolute maxed out range...so 120 to 140 miles useable range.

I just wish this thing had a 175 kWhr battery pack in it standard. Normal daily driving it would not need that much and I fully agree range during normal, everyday, average driving is not an issue. Go on any road trip where a truck is needed as opposed to a SUV or Sedan, and the CT just doesn't have the capacity to make it competitive with existing options. This is the rub, and people typically look at the margins when they make buying decisions. CT buyers at this range will be limited to current EV enthusiasts and not penetrate into the traditional truck market. That is a disappointment.

 

[Celiboy]

I, too, remember the promised 500 mile range. Maybe, when Tesla gets around to building my Quad motor LR in 2025, the range will be there with a different battery design. One of the current problems is the 20 ft. promised length got shrunk to 18.75 feet. That is a lot of space for more battery (and more range). Elon wanted it to fit in a 20 ft. garage. I currently have a real pickup - a Chevy Silverado crew cab. I have a 24 ft. garage that easily accommodates its 20 ft. length. If you are going to own a real pickup, you need a pickup garage, not a car garage. I note several outfits have tested the eSilverado and their results indicate a 450 mile range for the WT4. Check out C&D, R&T, etc. The WT4 has been out there for 6 months. For me, in Nevada, a 330 miles range is a deal breaker. I want to drive all the way from Reno to Lost Wages (480 miles) on a single charge. Or Reno to Ely, 402 miles.

So Tesla should just ignore the fact that most garages aren’t 24’ and make the truck for real truck people with real truck garages that then turn around and say it doesn’t have enough range for them cause they can’t drive from New York to California without stopping more than once. I guess that makes sense.

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