Towing Range Numbers?

[Gigahorse]

Based on wh/mile it looks like about 80-105 miles of range when towing, which is not the end of the world if they can get the minimum charging time to get to the next supercharger down from an hour.
Battery is taking close to an hour to go from 10-75% on the FAST V3 chargers, so the V2 chargers will be close to two hours to full.
Having to unhook a trailer for an hour or two to charge every 1.5 hours of towing would be pretty brutal, hopefully these early towing reports are worst case scenario, although none have been over 5,000lbs.

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[HaulingAss]

Does anyone know how the Brawley charges via regen when being towed? I'd assume, emphasis on the assume part, that how this would work is that when the CT decelerates - the Brawley uses it's regen function instead of "trailer braking" per se, but that's just a SWAG on my part to be clear. If so, then other than the rolling resistance item, it's not actually using the regen unless the CT is doing the same basically - which wouldn't really add any additional resistance beyond the rolling resistance. That said, there are certainly variables in play that make this one case anecdotal - but right now it's all we have to go on unfortunately.

It makes no sense that the Brawley would only regen when the tow vehicle applied brakes. That would be a nice feature to have, but it is a more advanced feature than to simply have the ability to regen when towed. The company says the Brawley has regen braking, but doesn't mention towing.

So I think it's a safe assumption it was regen braking for the entire tow and it's not at all clear why you think it only used regen braking when the Cybertruck applied brakes. Why do you think that?

Hopefully TFLEV get ahold of a CT sooner rather than later to run their EV towing tests. I believe they have a dual motor CT on order but I have no idea where they are in line.

The Fast Lane is a joke of an EV channel and one of the last sources I would trust for unbiased information. Total clowns.

 

[HaulingAss]

In my book, rear end sag is caused by improper levelling / weight distribution.
Assuming that the hitch / tongue / receiver are all placed at the correct level, jacking up the rear wheels only seem to make the issue worse to me.

In a vehicle like a traditional pickup, without adjustable suspension or air bags, rear end sag while towing happens as tongue weight increases. The more tongue weight, the more the rear end sags below it's normal ride height, it's unavoidable.

A self-leveling air suspension adapts to different tongue weights (or no tongue weight). This feature is excellent for towing and reduces the weight transfer to the rear axle as the tongue weight normally causes the rear suspension to compress and the front suspension to unload as the tow vehicle is no longer level.

 

[HitchHiker71]

It makes no sense that the Brawley would only regen when the tow vehicle applied brakes. That would be a nice feature to have, but it is a more advanced feature than to simply have the ability to regen when towed. The company says the Brawley has regen braking, but doesn't mention towing.

So I think it's a safe assumption it was regen braking for the entire tow and it's not at all clear why you think it only used regen braking when the Cybertruck applied brakes. Why do you think that?

My first thought was that the flat-tow regen would only kick in when the TBC sends the signal for the "trailer" to brake - but in doing some searching on flat-tow regen it doesn't appear as if it works this way as a general rule. Rivian appears to have the best control over flat-tow regen from what I've gathered - but you can basically control the amount of regen when flat-towing by setting it to low/high and putting the vehicle into Drive (or in the case of Rivian - even putting it into Reverse for maximum flat-tow regen apparently - which basically provides DC charger type power generation).

The Fast Lane is a joke of an EV channel and one of the last sources I would trust for unbiased information. Total clowns.

That's your opinion of course, and I will take this opportunity to summarily dismiss it.

 

[Woodrick]

Based on wh/mile it looks like about 80-105 miles of range when towing, which is not the end of the world if they can get the minimum charging time to get to the next supercharger down from an hour.
Battery is taking close to an hour to go from 10-75% on the FAST V3 chargers, so the V2 chargers will be close to two hours to full.
Having to unhook a trailer for an hour or two to charge every 1.5 hours of towing would be pretty brutal, hopefully these early towing reports are worst case scenario, although none have been over 5,000lbs.

You have no idea what towing is going to do.

 

[Gigahorse]

You have no idea what towing is going to do.

People are already towing with these and posting #s so we have a pretty good idea, with more info coming in regularly and more tests scheduled

 

[Woodrick]

People are already towing with these and posting #s so we have a pretty good idea, with more info coming in regularly and more tests scheduled

And what are you going to tow? It will make a big difference.

 

[Gigahorse]

And what are you going to tow? It will make a big difference.

Me personally, small enclosed work trailer, medium sized boat, and occasionally an open trailer with misc loads. So nothing over 8k lbs for the most part, but a ton of aero differences.

 

[Woodrick]

Me personally, small enclosed work trailer, medium sized boat, and occasionally an open trailer with misc loads. So nothing over 8k lbs for the most part, but a ton of aero differences.

They are going to get very different ranges because of their aerodynamic profile.

 

[HaulingAss]

Stop the mischaracterizations. I never said a load leveling suspension was a substitute for a weight distribition hitch, I said it would make a weight distribution hitch perform even better. That is a fact.

There are very real limits to what a load leveling hitch can do and a load leveling suspension works with the weight distributing hitch to improve towing dynamics in a way that a weight distribuiting hitch alone cannot do. It also improves the towing dynamics of trailers too light to need a weight distributing hitch. It's just one more tool in the towing toolbox.

 

[charliemagpie]

When towing, maybe refrain from being Mad Max, and find the right balance between speed and distance.

A bit of common sense can take you further lol

 

[Woodrick]

Stop the mischaracterizations. I never said a load leveling suspension was a substitute for a weight distribition hitch, I said it would make a weight distribution hitch perform even better. That is a fact.

There are very real limits to what a load leveling hitch can do and a load leveling suspension works with the weight distributing hitch to improve towing dynamics in a way that a weight distribuiting hitch alone cannot do. It also improves the towing dynamics of trailers too light to need a weight distributing hitch. It's just one more tool in the towing toolbox.

You got me thinking. I'm not sure if I even want load leveling when towing. If I'm carrying my own camper, I usually work to make sure that everything is level before even hitching. And then set the load levelling to keep it that way.

If the truck changes height, that will change the pitch of the trailer.

 

[HaulingAss]

You got me thinking. I'm not sure if I even want load leveling when towing. If I'm carrying my own camper, I usually work to make sure that everything is level before even hitching. And then set the load levelling to keep it that way.

If the truck changes height, that will change the pitch of the trailer.

That displays a lack of understanding of the mechanics/physics of how suspensions work. Did you know that the Cybertrucks suspension can dynamically adapt to different loads? That is can actually become firmer or softer depending upon whether your load is heavy or light? It's not just a difference in ride height, the effective spring rate can be changed. And the level of damping changes to suit. That is a very important advantage when towing big loads because a non-adjustable suspension cannot do either of those things without taking it into a shop whenever the amount of load changes.

A load distribution hitch is not magic, both the front and rear axles of the tow vehicle are more heavily loaded than when not towing. And the load-leveling suspension can adapt both the front and rear suspensions to better deal with the increased loads.

It's not clear to me what you are pushing back on. It is not controversial that adaptive suspensions are a large benefit when the load goes from light to heavy, as it does when towing big trailers. A static suspension, like that found in the F-150 Lightning cannot do that.

Do you understand how spring rates, ride heights and damping curves affect the stability of the entire towing setup? And that they should be matched to the load applied? Just what are you arguing here? It looks to me like you don't have a clue. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but I don't know how else I can interpret your persistent pushback on this uncontroversial topic. I'm trying to be nice, and help you understand that suspension needs change when the amount of load changes, and that non-adjustable suspensions are a compromise, particularly when unloaded and when heavily loaded.

My F-150 suspension (not adjustable in any manner) is happiest with about 1/3 of its rated load and even a trailer weighing only 1/3 the weight of it's approx. 10,000 lbs. tow rating would tow best with a weight distributing hitch, even though it would be more trouble than it's worth. The Cybertruck will really shine in such a situations.

Have you ever towed with a vehicle that had fully adjustable suspension (whether manually adjustable or automatic)? It's a game-changer whenever the load is not fixed. If a tow vehicle without an adaptive, load leveling suspension is only used connected to one trailer setup (never driven with varying loads or without a trailer) then you could set up your suspension for that use case. But it would not perform well if the trailer was removed. Cybertrucks load-leveling suspension solves that problem.

Thinking about your pushback some more, I can only conclude that you think a load-leveling suspension is only about adjusting the level of the truck. But you should know that it does that by adjusting the effective spring rates on both axles. Less talked about is the fact that it also adjusts the damping to suit those new spring rates and that is also very important for towing because having the higher damping rates is very important in controlling the motion of the load as the trailer is towed over bumps and dips in the road. You can still set up your weight-distribution hitch conventionally, by hooking it up with the Cybertruck turned off. I'm not yet informed as to the specific details of how the Cybertruck's suspension in towing mode responds, but it's obvious that Tesla engineers have taken into account weight distribution hitches, because those will be necessary to reach the maximum tow rating of 11,000 lbs. The Cybertrucks adaptive suspension will be fully compatible with weight distribution hitches.

The press has unsurprisingly failed to point out what a big advantage this is over pickups with non-adaptive suspensions, primarily for towing and hauling, but also when not necessarily towing or hauling, for adapting to rough roads at various speeds. Most of what makes the Cybertruck revolutionary is under the skin, not in it's futuristic looks.

 

[Woodrick]

That displays a lack of understanding of the mechanics/physics of how suspensions work. Did you know that the Cybertrucks suspension can dynamically adapt to different loads? That is can actually become firmer or softer depending upon whether your load is heavy or light? It's not just a difference in ride height, the effective spring rate can be changed. And the level of damping changes to suit. That is a very important advantage when towing big loads because a non-adjustable suspension cannot do either of those things without taking it into a shop whenever the amount of load changes.

A load distribution hitch is not magic, both the front and rear axles of the tow vehicle are more heavily loaded than when not towing. And the load-leveling suspension can adapt both the front and rear suspensions to better deal with the increased loads.

It's not clear to me what you are pushing back on. It is not controversial that adaptive suspensions are a large benefit when the load goes from light to heavy, as it does when towing big trailers. A static suspension, like that found in the F-150 Lightning cannot do that.

Let me quote a statement of yours " There are very real limits to what a load leveling hitch can do "
Now take a look at my post, did I ever say suspension? I said Load leveling, in response to your statements.

Yes, I know that when you are putting a load on a vehicle that the suspension needs to be stiffened up, often done by replacing with better components, but easy enough to do these days by electronics.

Stiffening up my suspension is good. Changing the elevation of the vehicle, as you have mentioned, bad to me. (or at least I need to know what it is going to be beforehand, so I can adjust hitch offset accordingly)

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