JerryRigEverything: How far can the CYBERTRUCK tow 11,000lbs in Freezing Weather?

[Alan]

That test was totally bogus. The cybertruck was cold soaked over night was the rivian? The trailer was hooked up to the cybertruck when weighed how much of the weight was on the trailer hitch. if he had to add steel plates to the rivian load it wasnt the carrying the un arodynamic hummer. Was it Even the same trailer. What a farce.

Sponsored

 

[aadams1278]

I currently have a Lightning.
I tow the boat....not long distances....so range is never an issue.
Although I do try to have it at 90% SOC when I head out.

I definitely would not try towing it 300-400 miles in a day.

What distance do you feel comfortable towing your boat and is it round trip or one way?

 

[intimidator]

What distance do you feel comfortable towing your boat and is it round trip or one way?

I would tow it 50-75 miles one way, assuming there is a Charger at the destination.
I am sure I could go further, but what if the Charger(s) are down? And most likely you have to find a place to drop the trailer somewhere, then drive to the charger.

I love having an EV, but if I towed an Airstream or similar significant distances, I would drive a F250 or F350 equivalent.

 

[aadams1278]

I would tow it 50-75 miles one way, assuming there is a Charger at the destination.
I am sure I could go further, but what if the Charger(s) are down? And most likely you have to find a place to drop the trailer somewhere, then drive to the charger.

I love having an EV, but if I towed an Airstream or similar significant distances, I would drive a F250 or F350 equivalent.

I should have asked before are those highway miles or rural back roads?

 

[intimidator]

I should have asked before are those highway miles or rural back roads?

65 miles an hour.

 

[Gigahorse]

I would tow it 50-75 miles one way, assuming there is a Charger at the destination.
I am sure I could go further, but what if the Charger(s) are down? And most likely you have to find a place to drop the trailer somewhere, then drive to the charger.

I love having an EV, but if I towed an Airstream or similar significant distances, I would drive a F250 or F350 equivalent.

The dropping of the trailer and the slower charging times with the CT are my concern. For the most part should be able to find a charger every 50 miles or so, but like you said if one of those is down it would get scary. Having to drop a trailer to charge is not the end of the world but depending on the area can be less than ideal.

 

[CyberGus]

If the limit is at the cell level charge acceptance rate, which it seems to be, the different voltage at the pack level will have no effect.

Theoretically the 800v input will have half the resistance of 400v, including the internal cell resistance. That should mean less waste heat, and thus an improved charge curve. ?‍

 

[BannedByTMC]

Theoretically the 800v input will have half the resistance of 400v, including the internal cell resistance.

No. Twice as many cells in series means half as many in parallel so the current at the cell level remains the same at the same power level, i.e. kW. 800V at 200kW = 250 amps, 400V at 200kW = 500 amps, but the lower voltage pack has twice as many cells in parallel so the cell level C rate is the same as the higher voltage pack. (Cells in parallel add amp hours, cells in series increase voltage). Higher voltage only helps if the charging cables and/or current carriers at the pack level are the limitation. Cell level is unaffected.

 

[BigAl]

All will truly be answered when Out Of Spec does their full review in CO. Apples to apples and such!

 

[Klaxon]

Looks like only a battery with capacity about 200kWh would qualify the CT as a truck

 

[CyberGus]

No. Twice as many cells in series means half as many in parallel so the current at the cell level remains the same at the same power level, i.e. kW. 800V at 200kW = 250 amps, 400V at 200kW = 500 amps, but the lower voltage pack has twice as many cells in parallel so the cell level C rate is the same as the higher voltage pack. (Cells in parallel add amp hours, cells in series increase voltage). Higher voltage only helps if the charging cables and/or current carriers at the pack level are the limitation. Cell level is unaffected.

I'm out of my depth on this subject, but my search for information finds articles that support my position: higher voltage, even at the same kW level, produces less heat, and thus the charge curve ramps the power downward more slowly, charging faster.

"To charge faster, more voltage or more current is required. Increasing the current, however, leads to more energy loss and heat — which makes actually charging faster more difficult. Thus, the better way to actually charge faster is by increasing the pressure inside that pump — with a higher voltage."
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/ev-voltage-charging-speed/


"GMC’s Hummer EV uses two separate 400-volt battery packs wired in parallel during normal operation, which means the drivetrain is built on a 400-volt architecture. During fast-charging, however, it can flip a switch and wire the two packs in series, which combines their voltages to temporarily make it an 800-volt system. This allows it to charge much faster, at speeds of around 300 kW."
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a44794463/why-more-voltage-makes-for-better-evs/


"The main parameter for charging speed is charger output power, which depends on voltage and current. Increasing the charging current would lead to more heat and energy loss, so increasing the voltage is a better way to increase power and get faster charging...
The 800-volt architecture also reduces energy consumption. If a battery outputs the same power as its voltage increases, that means its current must decrease. Since heating and power losses are proportional to the square of the current, heat loss goes down as voltage goes up."
https://www.engineering.com/story/high-voltage-vehicles-why-800-volt-evs-are-on-the-rise


"Faster charging is enabled with an 800-volt system because lower current reduces overheating in the charging cables and associated hardware – less power is lost to heat, and more is delivered to your car’s battery."
https://www.greencars.com/news/new-800-volt-fast-charging-systems

 

[BannedByTMC]

Yeah most articles don't know what they are talking about on that topic. It doesn't help that companies have been touting the higher voltage as the answer to charging speed. If that were true and the limit was not at the cell level then doubling the voltage would double the charge speed, but it doesn't. That's because the ultimate limitation is how fast the cell can accept the current without overheating and/or going overvoltage.

Maybe I can make a simple example. 2 cells of 10ah capacity and 4V could make a battery of 8V and 10ah in series or 4V and 20ah in parallel. Both assembled batteries would each hold 80Wh of energy. If the max C rate of each individual cell is 10 amps, (1C), the first battery charging at 80 Watts is seeing 10 amps of current at 8V. The second battery charging at 80 Watts is seeing 20 amps of current at 4V but is still only at 1C because cells in parallel essentially become a single larger cell, in this case a 20ah cell, and 1C for a 20ah cell is 20 amps.

There are improvements in efficiency in the cables and connections leading to the pack which also allow smaller conductors but as long as the C rate of the cells is the ultimate limiting factor higher voltage advantages don't amount to much. I believe the limitation of the Cybertruck is still at the cell level.

 

[BannedByTMC]

This graph of the 800V Taycan charging compared to the 400V Model 3 makes my point, there isn't much advantage to doubling the voltage at peak power levels when the cell is the limiting factor. And the Taycan has a larger pack.

https://insideevs.com/news/512344/porsche-taycan-fast-charging-analysis/

 

[Beyond]

20% is not real though. In my model y I end up with 40% of the dashboard range in winter on the highway. Not losing 40%, actually 40% of the "326 miles". That calculus, again, has not changed. Only charge to 90% (which now is recommended to be 80), then you lose range heating stuff, then you lose range due to dense air... I get like 140 miles on a charge. But that's not new information, is my entire point. And in the summer, I get like 220 miles.

I'm a pretty conservative driver (Tesla insurance mandated) but the range you're getting is not in line with my experience at all. My lifetime average is 253 Wh/mile which spans 1.5 mid Minnesota winters and 1 summer, including about 1000 miles with a 17' canoe on the roof of the Model Y LR. That gets my lifetime range pretty close to the EPA claim.

Had to go to town today so headed up to Cambridge, MN on our local highways. Preconditioned, drove the speed limit. Temp was 3 degrees F when I left, spent about 1.5 hours in the bank and stores, then drove home at the days high temp of 10 degrees F. I have the winter Blizzak tires on with no aero covers so that's going to lower the range. Roof bars are permanently installed. Ran both the seat and steering wheel heat at 1 bar and the cabin heat at 63 degrees. Tire pressure is a bit low at 39-40 psi due to the cold. Chill mode. Ended up with 282 Wh/Mile for the 36 mile trip average. Did a little better (278 Wh/Mile) on the return leg most likely due to the balmy 10 degree F temp.

Excuse the fuzzy photo. So am I the only one who gets near rated range in the Model Y LR? I have no range complaints at all. Pro Tip: Only use Top Tier electrons... ;-)

 

[agordon117]

I'm a pretty conservative driver (Tesla insurance mandated) but the range you're getting is not in line with my experience at all. My lifetime average is 253 Wh/mile which spans 1.5 mid Minnesota winters and 1 summer, including about 1000 miles with a 17' canoe on the roof of the Model Y LR. That gets my lifetime range pretty close to the EPA claim.

Had to go to town today so headed up to Cambridge, MN on our local highways. Preconditioned, drove the speed limit. Temp was 3 degrees F when I left, spent about 1.5 hours in the bank and stores, then drove home at the days high temp of 10 degrees F. I have the winter Blizzak tires on with no aero covers so that's going to lower the range. Roof bars are permanently installed. Ran both the seat and steering wheel heat at 1 bar and the cabin heat at 63 degrees. Tire pressure is a bit low at 39-40 psi due to the cold. Chill mode. Ended up with 282 Wh/Mile for the 36 mile trip average. Did a little better (278 Wh/Mile) on the return leg most likely due to the balmy 10 degree F temp.

Excuse the fuzzy photo. So am I the only one who gets near rated range in the Model Y LR? I have no range complaints at all. Pro Tip: Only use Top Tier electrons... ;-)

How fast were you going on that drive? Cabin heat of 63 is also a huge factor. I find that cold air blows on my legs when I'm on the highway, and as a person who normally prefers it to be colder than normal room temp, I have to crank my heat to (sometimes) 78F on the highway to feel like I would in a 69F room

Sponsored