Hardware 4 and auto pilot

[roadrunner32]

Do other Tesla models that have hardware 4 have autopilot functioning.? Just trying rule this out as a reason why we don’t have autopilot on cybertruck.

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[mark555055c]

Yes, FSD beta is running on HW4. The only reason it's not active on the CT is the newness of the vehicle. FSD also is not yet enabled on the refreshed Model 3.

I'd expect FSD on both of these vehicles in the next 3-6 months once Tesla has enough data gathered.

 

[Speedr]

Yeah, it's seems like a calibration thing. I think they need so many fleet miles to dial in the adjustments compared to Model 3/Y. BTW, Hardware 4 still doesn't have Summon or Auto park with FSD Beta, but HW 3 does.

All that to say it'll show up shortly...

 

[dLux]

Do other Tesla models that have hardware 4 have autopilot functioning.? Just trying rule this out as a reason why we don’t have autopilot on cybertruck.

The CT steering is pretty unique due to the drive by wire mechanism: it has to combine two inputs (steering wheel and the FSD computer) into 3 outputs (tires, steering wheel and the FSD computer feedback). I guess they just don't have the software that can do that.

 

[Woodrick]

Yes, others do, but indeed it was over 6 months before they had theirs as well.

Elon has made the statement that FSD is focused on HW3 and that HW4 development will lag by about 6 months.

 

[sharpgator]

The CT steering is pretty unique due to the drive by wire mechanism: it has to combine two inputs (steering wheel and the FSD computer) into 3 outputs (tires, steering wheel and the FSD computer feedback). I guess they just don't have the software that can do that.

This is THE thing that gives me pause on moving forward with my order. I currently have a Model 3 and I use Autopilot daily. Based on past history, I'm seriously concerned that it could be years before AP/FSD is active on the Cybertruck.

 

[Woodrick]

The CT steering is pretty unique due to the drive by wire mechanism: it has to combine two inputs (steering wheel and the FSD computer) into 3 outputs (tires, steering wheel and the FSD computer feedback). I guess they just don't have the software that can do that.

How do you think that they are doing that on their existing vehicles?

And every plane that has fly-by-wire has the exact same configuration. Manual controls and autopilot.

 

[dLux]

How do you think that they are doing that on their existing vehicles?

The existing vehicles have just 2 inputs and 2 outputs (FSD computer and the wheel+tires). I'm just saying that it requires different software that I guess is not ready yet.

 

[Outdoors]

Yes, others do, but indeed it was over 6 months before they had theirs as well.
Elon has made the statement that FSD is focused on HW3 and that HW4 development will lag by about 6 months.

This is THE thing that gives me pause on moving forward with my order. I currently have a Model 3 and I use Autopilot daily. Based on past history, I'm seriously concerned that it could be years before AP/FSD is active on the Cybertruck.

Like how serious? Like life or death serious @sharpgator . Like years. Go to ignore yourself. I just did. Bye. you too Shark.

The only people giving pause should be people that don't intent to hold the truck. They want to enjoy all the perfect without any unperfect. Or flip after fun as I call it.

Well then wait down the line.

I always said that to my friends that said. I won't buy until it is in a showroom and I can test drive. (angry face). Tough stuff.

 

[Speedr]

The traffic aware cruise control makes it bearable, but coming from FSD Beta (which I had and still have in my other Tesla), it is tough. That said, I still choose to take the Cybertruck everywhere instead of the other Tesla...and that's saying something since it's a Plaid!!

 

[Woodrick]

The existing vehicles have just 2 inputs and 2 outputs (FSD computer and the wheel+tires). I'm just saying that it requires different software that I guess is not ready yet.

Why does FSD need to know about your "third" output? (I'm assuming that you mean rear wheel angle). It doesn't really have to worry about that. That's the steering algorithm that's already working. Does a human require the third output in order to operate?

 

[dLux]

Why does FSD need to know about your "third" output? (I'm assuming that you mean rear wheel angle). It doesn't really have to worry about that. That's the steering algorithm that's already working. Does a human require the third output in order to operate?

Ok, I try to explain it:

- Driving in a normal car does not require any software, just a power assist.
- Tesla developed FSD so that it can work with a system like that: the FSD computer needs to perceive and affect the steering. They developed a hardware and software component to affect the steering, likely through the electric power assist system.
- The Cybertruck have a sensor and an actuator on the steering wheel, a sensor and an actuator on the tires and they are not connected physically, only by software. The FSD computer need to understand that it now needs to control these two systems at the same time reliably. It's an different system, so it requires a different software.

That's it, it's not complicated. Based on the fact that neither of the steering assist systems work (lane departure assist, autopilot, FSD), I believe that's the missing component.

And as Elon tweeted, Cybertruck is not a priority for FSD, so the FSD team is likely busy with making FSD 12 stable enough for wide distribution, then once that's done, they will have some time to develop the missing driver.

That's my theory.

 

[Woodrick]

Ok, I try to explain it:

- Driving in a normal car does not require any software, just a power assist.
- Tesla developed FSD so that it can work with a system like that: the FSD computer needs to perceive and affect the steering. They developed a hardware and software component to affect the steering, likely through the electric power assist system.
- The Cybertruck have a sensor and an actuator on the steering wheel, a sensor and an actuator on the tires and they are not connected physically, only by software. The FSD computer need to understand that it now needs to control these two systems at the same time reliably. It's an different system, so it requires a different software.

That's it, it's not complicated. Based on the fact that neither of the steering assist systems work (lane departure assist, autopilot, FSD), I believe that's the missing component.

And as Elon tweeted, Cybertruck is not a priority for FSD, so the FSD team is likely busy with making FSD 12 stable enough for wide distribution, then once that's done, they will have some time to develop the missing driver.

That's my theory.

Let me see if I can explain it a little differently. On the existing cars, Tesla has two inputs, the manual power steering and the electronic steering.
The way that I look at it, they removed the manual part and added a second input to the existing electronic part.

Sure the actual interfaces may me a little different, but as far as FSD is concerned, turn left 5 degrees is still the same thing. And the sensor input from the steering wheel to detect torque is basically the same as well.

Way before Elon mentioned that the Cybertruck was low man on the FSD totem pole, he said that HW4 was the low man. And this was the case when HW4 came out. It was nearly 6 months before it became available, although they did have some flavors of autopilot.

But a MUCH bigger difference was the implementation of Tesla Vision as the USS were removed. That's a few magnitudes more complicated than the steering algorithm.

 

[roadrunner32]

Like how serious? Like life or death serious @sharpgator . Like years. Go to ignore yourself. I just did. Bye. you too Shark.

The only people giving pause should be people that don't intent to hold the truck. They want to enjoy all the perfect without any unperfect. Or flip after fun as I call it.

Well then wait down the line.

I always said that to my friends that said. I won't buy until it is in a showroom and I can test drive. (angry face). Tough stuff.

Thank you Outdoors. Autopilot is my most liked feature of my Tesla. Wife also loves it and feels safer with it engaged. Since I will be 78 in a few months FOMO is a real thing. Also being a retired process control engineer in Chemical plants I have concerns about the complexity that variable steering adds to the software programming. Seems to me if it were not really difficult to "code" at least autopilot would have been included. No extreme amounts of real world data needed, just keep the vehicle centered in between the lines. Hmmpfff...... Aha, This is it: there is triple redundancy in the steer by wire motors. And the best redundancy is done by dissimilar actuators which further complicates the programming. I really need to talk to that very knowledgeable software guy that Sandy Munro's guy interviewed at the CE show in Las Vegas last year. Oh and here's another point: The Tesla team is probably running auto pilot in the background on all the CTs on the road now. Testing it out without actually sending the signal to the SBW motors. What a fantastic test bed. Thats it!

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