F-150 Lighting EV Cancelled. To be Replaced by EREV Hybrid Lightning

[hemiarch]

The fact is, the Cybertruck competes mainly with gas powered vehicles. Elon understands this, that's why he's successful. Most other manufacturers made the mistake of thinking EVs mostly compete with other EVs (but all vehicles perform the same function of getting people and gear from A to B). It mostly comes down to cost and convenience.

That might be true early in the adoption game.
The model 3 is done competing with corollas though in my opinion. There is enough inertia for these cars that there are many people who might upgrade to a different EV but not buy another ICE.
Truck drivers have unique challenges market wise at least in part due to where they fall sociopolitically but also because of the specific tasks (like towing or remote work) that the EV truck has to compete with to make sense over an ICE equivalent.
There is no question in my mind though that if someone is hellbent on buying an EV truck, and having to choose between the Silverado, rivian or cybertruck, they are more likely to choose the Cybertruck than if there were one more option (the lightning) in that equation.
So, I still see this as a win for the Cybertruck.
No matter who it competes with.

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[henchman24]

Yes and you also put in 65 mph. Let me tell you something partner, you can try to drive that road at 65 mph, but I won’t. That’s cause I’m from around these parts and I know that that’s a recipe for becoming roadkill.

Also, ABRP does not appreciate the altitude change it’s only up from Vegas, the extreme wind resistance that you’re going to encounter and the temperature drop. You’ve explained that you deal with all of that in the drives that you’ve done previously and that’s great but you haven’t done this drive I have many many times.

You can do it in an AWD if you drive like a grandma and probably just make it. Then if you wish to do any of the things that one would do once they arrive in Ely you will need to spend about two hours charging at the brand new supercharger.

That’s not an experience that I’m interested in.

And, of course, this ignores the entire fact that if I’m going up to Ely, Nevada the reason I’m going is to do some recreating in which case I’m going to want my trailer with me which case means we’re not talking about whether it’s close (+/- 20 miles) … it’s not possible. Period. End of discussion.

What you are saying is that in your use case, it doesn't work. Which you know and thus there is likely a better option for you than the CT. I'm not debating on if the CT fits your use case. Applying your use case universally to everyone isn't the case though. You just said initially to plot the course with a CB and I did with a 33% buffer. Also that is reference consumption on ABRP, not speed limit. It was set to the speed limit.

 

[henchman24]

I heard you the first time. I’ve given you the challenge. Let me know when you’re coming down to Vegas so that you can prove me wrong.

I've done just as challenging routes than you have, but I'm not desiring to go to Vegas anytime soon. So pat yourself on your back.

 

[hemiarch]

Remember these?

Hard for me to trust in ford’s management team when they are basically saying, “this device is the future “

 

[dalton108]

I've done just as challenging routes than you have, but I'm not desiring to go to Vegas anytime soon. So pat yourself on your back.

No need. Here’s why if you did you and your truck would be F.O.R.D. as a result of your combined hubris and ignorance:

Las Vegas, NV to Ely, NV: 241 miles, elevation +4,431 feet (it’s uphill all the way buddy!)

• Jackson, WY to Rawlins, WY: 284 miles, elevation +561 feet (lol)

• Colorado City (Colorado Springs), CO to Durango, CO: 315 miles, elevation +488 feet (haha)

——-

That is to say nothing of the typical 30 to 40 mph headwinds that you will be facing all the way up to Ely.

So, what you should do is talk about things that you know about.

 

[eswimm]

Range extenders make a lot of sense for this type of vehicle, it doesn't even need to produce a ton of power, just enough to handle the energy needs at cruising speed. There's always going to be somebody who needs a slightly larger battery for some reason, while >90% of the vehicles on the road could get by with 100mi range and home charging.

 

[YDR37]

All that said, I think like SC said Ford is making a very smart move here. At this point, they’re really just following what VW Group is doing with Scout and I for one cannot wait until I get my Terra Harvester.

The first EREV truck to hit the market will probably not be either the Scout Terra Harvester or the newly announced Ford EREV. It will most likely be the Ram 1500 REV, which has "projected availability 2026" , so potentially within a year.

Claimed specs:
- 690 miles range
- 14,000 lbs towing capacity
- 2,625 lbs payload capacity

Will use 3.6L Pentastar V6 as generator; this is the base engine on current gasoline Ram trucks. The battery pack is 92 kWh, so should have some real battery-only range.

Does the added cost/complexity of the EREV setup have any advantages over a gas-only Ram 1500? Potentially yes: the EREV's claimed 647 hp, 610 lb-ft torque, 0-60 in 4.5 seconds is better than any current gas-only Ram. The Ram TRX, which had a supercharged 6.2L Hemi V8, had comparable or better numbers, but the TRX was quite expensive and has been discontinued.

The key spec that is missing at this time is the price. My guess is that RAM customers could be receptive to the REV hybrid, but the price has to be right.

 

[henchman24]

No need. Here’s why if you did you and your truck would be F.O.R.D. as a result of your combined hubris and ignorance:

Las Vegas, NV to Ely, NV: 241 miles, elevation +4,431 feet (it’s uphill all the way buddy!)

• Jackson, WY to Rawlins, WY: 284 miles, elevation +561 feet (lol)

• Colorado City (Colorado Springs), CO to Durango, CO: 315 miles, elevation +488 feet (haha)

Blatantly ignoring the mountain passes crossed and the distance differences, but hey as long as you think you win.

 

[dalton108]

The first EREV truck to hit the market will probably not be either the Scout Terra Harvester or the newly announced Ford EREV. It will most likely be the Ram 1500 REV, which has "projected availability 2026" , so potentially within a year.

Claimed specs:
- 690 miles range
- 14,000 lbs towing capacity
- 2,625 lbs payload capacity

Will use 3.6L Pentastar V6 as generator; this is the base engine on current gasoline Ram trucks. The battery pack is 92 kWh, no estimate of electric-only range.

Does the added cost/complexity of the EREV setup have any advantages over a gas-only Ram 1500? Potentially yes: the EREV's claimed 647 hp, 610 lb-ft torque, 0-60 in 4.5 seconds is better than any current gas-only Ram. The Ram TRX, which had a supercharged 6.2L Hemi V8, had comparable or better numbers, but the TRX was quite expensive and has been discontinued.

The key spec that is missing at this time is the price. My guess is that RAM customers could be receptive to the REV hybrid, but the price has to be right.

Interesting! A V6 seems like overkill! It seems like they’re planning to do more of a set up where it’s assisting all time rather than just doing EV and then recharging battery.

 

[dalton108]

Blatantly ignoring the mountain passes crossed and the distance differences, but hey as long as you think you win.

Blatantly ignoring the 40 mph constant head winds. And if you’re gaining elevation and then losing it you’re getting regen. You won’t be getting any regen on the trip from Vegas to Ely as I said it’s straight uphill all the way continual grade facing high speed headwinds.

Also, let’s be clear: I’m not here telling you that you can’t do drives that you already have done. I’m telling you that they are not comparable to the drive that you’re proposing that you can do in my state, that I have done.

We are not the same.

 

[henchman24]

Blatantly ignoring the 40 mph constant head winds. And let’s be clear I’m not here telling you that you can’t do drives that you already have done. I’m telling you that they are not comparable to the drive that you’re proposing that you can do, that I have done.

We are not the same.

Wyoming is notoriously not windy...

 

[dalton108]

Wyoming is notoriously not windy...

Tell me about all of your experience in Ely, Nevada. Because I’ve been on all over Wyoming. My former law partner owns a fishing lodge outside of Bozeman.

You tell me everything you’ve done in Ely and I’ll tell you everything I’ve done in Wyoming and we’ll see who actually has experience and who’s just fucking running their mouth.

How’d that be? Or better yet … click.

 

[TyPope]

There is 33.6 KwH of energy in one gallon of gas.
A truck engine can be as low as 30% efficient at conversion.
A 30-gallon fuel tank provides the equivalent of a 302KwH battery. It's unlikely a battery powered truck will get to parity with an ICE with its 20-gallon tank without an enormous battery. Physics sucks.

Physics dictates some things:
Pulling a 14,000# trailer with a frontal area of 60^2 feet 100 miles with 1 mile of positive elevation change at 75 mph and a drag coefficient of a slippery 0.30 will take 170.5 KwH. Slowing down to 65 mph will mean it will take 145.8 KwH.

At 30% conversion efficiency, an ICE truck with the same aero would need 100 miles / (33.6 KwH per gallon *.30 efficiency rate)= 9.92 gallons of gas to go 100 miles.

I love my truck but for a lot of people, they "need" more range. If we were all honest with ourselves, if it weren't for the wow or fun factor, we could all be driving Model 3s and just go rent a truck that one or two times we need one and come out WAY ahead.

But, not for me. I "need" my truck every day... for the commute. LOL

 

[Pops]

I had a 2022 F150 Lightning and I loved it. Its sad to see it go. I knew I would be towing a lot in my truck and I knew an EV is the wrong tool for the job, but I wanted to take on that challenge. Unfortunately I think the technology/economics of a solution are just not available yet for a pure EV truck to see wide adoption. Yet I see a path for that to happen, faster charging/more chargers, and or more range.

I switched to a CT because I got bait and switched TWICE by Tesla. First, I reserved a truck with 500 miles of range. Second I was counting on a CT range extender that was cancelled after I purchased.

Now I am facing a much bigger challenge than expected. With my towing setup I am looking at ~90 mile of towing range. This literally removes certain destinations as possibilities, and increases trip times by almost 2x. It will now need to depend on generator charging, or battery charging from the trailer to reach remote destinations. Both of which require me to stop and wait. Or I can take a $30k-$40k depreciation loss and switch to gas (not going to happen).

I think the problems I am facing is what causes people to not go with the F150 Lightning, or other EV trucks. Even if the problem is only hypothetical for them and they only tow once a year or less. People buy vehicles thinking about 1% use cases, because any vehicle can do the other 99%.

 

[dalton108]

I had a 2022 F150 Lightning and I loved it. Its sad to see it go. I knew I would be towing a lot in my truck and I knew an EV is the wrong tool for the job, but I wanted to take on that challenge. Unfortunately I think the technology/economics of a solution are just not available yet for a pure EV truck to see wide adoption. Yet I see a path for that to happen, faster charging/more chargers, and or more range.

I switched to a CT because I got bait and switched TWICE by Tesla. First, I reserved a truck with 500 miles of range. Second I was counting on a CT range extender that was cancelled after I purchased.

Now I am facing a much bigger challenge than expected. With my towing setup I am looking at ~90 mile of towing range. This literally removes certain destinations as possibilities, and increases trip times by almost 2x. It will now need to depend on generator charging, or battery charging from the trailer to reach remote destinations. Both of which require me to stop and wait. Or I can take a $30k-$40k depreciation loss and switch to gas (not going to happen).

I think the problems I am facing is what causes people to not go with the F150 Lightning, or other EV trucks. Even if the problem is only hypothetical for them and they only tow once a year or less. People buy vehicles thinking about 1% use cases, because any vehicle can do the other 99%.

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