Dodge Ram will be better than Ford F-150 Lightning

Ogre

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I agree, if delivered as expected including pricing. Hopefully so, I’ve got an early reservation also.
I’ve just noticed bias on different truck owner forums; dismissive of other brand accomplishments etc. x vs y vs z. Not directed at anyone in particular…
Well if you read the Tesla forums, the 500 mile range truck is going to have 610 miles range. If you read the Ford forums, the 300 mile truck is going to get 425 miles in the real world.

Makes me laugh because the truth is almost certainly that neither are going to hit their rated range on a regular basis, let along 100+ miles more than the rated range.





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firsttruck

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I thought they were talking about a 200kWh battery. That would be attainable... but ridiculously heavy.
Not just heavy but very expensive.


Of course the top end Ford has a 150 or 175 kWh so maybe not so insane. All I know is there are going to be some monstrously heavy trucks out there.
Do you have link to info that Ford has announced Lightning with options for 150 & 175kWH battery packs and the price?
 

Ogre

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Not just heavy but very expensive.
Yep, very expensive.

Price is where Tesla is going to kill Ford and the other majors. Tesla's design is very much geared towards using design to lower the weight and aero profile to keep battery size reasonable. Ford and presumably Dodge are going to have to put monster batteries in to match their range.

If Ford matches Tesla's prices, they make no profit. If they don't match Tesla's prices, it's going to be hard to maintain their lead in the truck market.

Do you have link to info that Ford has announced Lightning with options for 150 & 175kWH battery packs and the price?
I don't recall where I heard the 150 kWh pack number, it's all speculation at this point regardless.
 

firsttruck

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If Ford matches Tesla's prices, they make no profit.
I think it is much worse than "no profit". Likely Ford to lose thousands per Lightning. Ford ICE truck profits will need to subsidize Ford EVs.
 

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I think it is much worse than "no profit". Likely Ford to lose thousands per Lightning. Ford ICE truck profits will need to subsidize Ford EVs.
Luckily, once the Lightning trucks start coming out and get compared to Tesla, I don't think there would be a large demand for them. So the ICE truck sales should be able to pay for the losses on Lightning till ICE trucks are banned and Ford gets shut down.
 

Ogre

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This weekend I was in Bend charging up and the Supercharger was slammed. Only 1 empty stall when I rolled up, when I left there were 6 cars waiting for my spot.

Made me curious about the other side of the fence, so I looked at Plugshare to see what would have been available. There were 18 chargers available... but all but 4 of them were lethargic 60 kW chargers. It would have taken me more than twice as long to top off.

I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to park my brand new $79,000 Laredo at a charger and see it's going to take 2+ hours to get up to 250 miles of range added.

Of course I'm not too excited about the number of Teslas doubling in the next 2 years and completely slamming the Supercharger network either.

Long winded way of saying... it's going to be interesting watching Ford roll out trucks when the "Fast" charging options are going to be slow at best and often glacial.
 

CostcoSamples

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This weekend I was in Bend charging up and the Supercharger was slammed. Only 1 empty stall when I rolled up, when I left there were 6 cars waiting for my spot.

Made me curious about the other side of the fence, so I looked at Plugshare to see what would have been available. There were 18 chargers available... but all but 4 of them were lethargic 60 kW chargers. It would have taken me more than twice as long to top off.

I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to park my brand new $79,000 Laredo at a charger and see it's going to take 2+ hours to get up to 250 miles of range added.

Of course I'm not too excited about the number of Teslas doubling in the next 2 years and completely slamming the Supercharger network either.

Long winded way of saying... it's going to be interesting watching Ford roll out trucks when the "Fast" charging options are going to be slow at best and often glacial.
Wow... Yeah no thanks. Its all fine and good to make a bunch of big promises about delivering fancy new EVs, but Tesla are the only ones who understood the charging problem early on.

I think busy chargers is also an indication that batteries need to be bigger. I look forward to the day when 400 miles is considered entry level for a new EV.
 

Ogre

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Wow... Yeah no thanks. Its all fine and good to make a bunch of big promises about delivering fancy new EVs, but Tesla are the only ones who understood the charging problem early on.

I think busy chargers is also an indication that batteries need to be bigger. I look forward to the day when 400 miles is considered entry level for a new EV.
Yeah, any time you can get to your destination and back without stopping to charge is a win. (Or from one location with a charger to a location with a destination charger)

The other thing is busy chargers means cars need to be more efficient! A 150 kW charger is going to get miles into a Tesla Model Y 20% faster than into a Ford Mustang Mach E. The more efficient (lighter/ more aero) your car is, the quicker you get out of that charging station!

This is doubly true with bigger vehicles. If the Cybertruck has a 100 kWh battery to get 300 miles range and the Ford can only squeeze 230 miles out of that same battery. The CT will spend 30% less time at the charging station and cost 30% less to operate.

Faster charging and a more reliable charging network is a big selling point of Teslas. With the trucks, this will be even more important.

I am seriously cringing thinking about the absolute crush of new Teslas on the Supercharger network though. I'm definitely picking up a CCS charger as a back up.
 

CostcoSamples

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I am seriously cringing thinking about the absolute crush of new Teslas on the Supercharger network though. I'm definitely picking up a CCS charger as a back up.
Good plan. In my area Teslas are still very rare and super chargers are almost always empty.
 
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Guess I'm not 'typical'... sold my Ram Ecodiesel and bought a 2021 M3P to hooligan around in until my CT is ready in a few years :)
Me either. Had my RAM 1500 for ten years and loved it (except gas mileage). Now, I've put 3,500 miles on my M3LR that I picked up last month to drive while I'm waiting for the CT.
 

Ogre

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Me either. Had my RAM 1500 for ten years and loved it (except gas mileage). Now, I've put 3,500 miles on my M3LR that I picked up last month to drive while I'm waiting for the CT.
This cracks me up. So many people have bought Model 3 or Model Y while waiting for the Cybertruck. It's like a reverse add-on sale.
 

CostcoSamples

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No. Bigger batteries means sitting at the charge point longer.

-Crissa
Obviously a bigger battery takes longer to charge. But I'm talking about super chargers here, not destination charging. Big battery means you are more likely to make your trip WITHOUT using a super charger. If range was 1 mile, you'd need a charger on every corner. If range was 1000 miles you'd almost never need a super charger. I don't know why you would say no.

Here in Canada the distances are vast, charging network is limited, and cold weather kills range.
 

Ogre

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Obviously a bigger battery takes longer to charge. But I'm talking about super chargers here, not destination charging. Big battery means you are more likely to make your trip WITHOUT using a super charger. If range was 1 mile, you'd need a charger on every corner. If range was 1000 miles you'd almost never need a super charger. I don't know why you would say no.

Here in Canada the distances are vast, charging network is limited, and cold weather kills range.
Unless you can guarantee your battery is going to cover whatever distance you need to cover every time, you are going to end up at a fast charge station. When you end up at the charging station (trust me, you will if you travel much), you don't care about battery size, you care about range.

Aptera has a tiny 2 person vehicle with 1000 mile range and a tiny battery. Ford has a massive vehicle with a giant battery but a tiny range. As a result of battery/ range sizes, you can charge the Aptera at 500-1000 mph. The Ford charges at about 150 mph. The Cybertruck charges at ~250-300 miles per hour. With the Aptera, you can be in and out of that fast charge stop in about 10 minutes. With the Cybertruck, 30-45 minutes. With the Ford, 60-90 minutes.
 

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Big battery means you are more likely to make your trip WITHOUT using a super charger...
Only very slightly, and only the first leg. What percent of trips are in that round-trip window?

Your example of Canada doesn't make it better. It makes it worse, as few trips are going to be in that slight 'bigger battery' range.

-Crissa
 

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