Tesla order invite now says: “We expect to deliver only the foundation series through late 2024”

[Gaximus]

That seems nonsensical.

A van is a utility vehicle.

-Crissa

So is a truck. Anything can be a utility vehicle depending on what the utility is, a motorcycle provides the utility of getting me from one place to another. I don’t agree with “Sport Utility Vehicle” nomenclature, and what it defines, but the industry has a decent definition of what one is.

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[Crissa]

So is a truck. Anything can be a utility vehicle depending on what the utility is, a motorcycle provides the utility of getting me from one place to another. I don’t agree with “Sport Utility Vehicle” nomenclature, and what it defines, but the industry has a decent definition of what one is.

The industry's definition is a tiny approach angle and clearance advantage. And then a slightly larger footprint and weight and AWD in some combination is optional but allows it a lower MPG CAFE requirement.

Probably not what you were thinking.

Utility also usually attaches to vehicles larger than seat the average family and their luggage, as minivans were utility vehicles in the 70s and 80s (prior to the 90s SUV nomenclature, which didn't include seating or cargo).

-Crissa

 

[Gaximus]

I

The industry's definition is a tiny approach angle and clearance advantage. And then a slightly larger footprint and weight and AWD in some combination is optional but allows it a lower MPG CAFE requirement.

Probably not what you were thinking.

Utility also usually attaches to vehicles larger than seat the average family and their luggage, as minivans were utility vehicles in the 70s and 80s (prior to the 90s SUV nomenclature, which didn't include seating or cargo).

-Crissa

I would agree with that definition, and would agree that the Model X has no angle or clearance advantage over the Model S. Also that a minivan is not a SUV. utility yes.

 

[SCTesla]

I

I would agree with that definition, and would agree that the Model X has no angle or clearance advantage over the Model S. Also that a minivan is not a SUV. utility yes.

While it's not a lot, it's 1-2" better ground clearance than the Model S.

I can see an argument for the Model X to be a CUV or an SUV, but I haven't really heard anyone try to say it's a van/minivan.

 

[Gaximus]

I

I would agree with that definition, and would agree that the Model X has no angle or clearance advantage over the Model S. Also that a minivan is not a SUV. utility yes.

That was just the feeling I got while sitting it, but a quick search brings up these articles.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DSB-8412
https://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model-x-is-the-best-minivan-150-000-can-buy-1788281178
https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Tesla-call-the-model-X-an-SUV-when-it-seems-more-like-a-minivan
https://carbuzz.com/news/the-tesla-model-x-is-the-coolest-minivan-you-cant-have/

 

[Stuck4ger]

While it's not a lot, it's 1-2" better ground clearance than the Model S.

I can see an argument for the Model X to be a CUV or an SUV, but I haven't really heard anyone try to say it's a van/minivan.

I personally find the 7-seat Model X to be an extremely nice and useful SUV. Unlike the 6-seat model, you can fold the 2nd and 3rd rows down flat and haul a “truckload” of stuff. Sure you don’t want to fill it with cement and manure but it certainly can haul typical family stuff. I thought the falcon doors were a gimmick but they are very useful when loading large objects as they open up completely and allow full access so you can not only get big stuff in, you can maneuver them around.

And it’s the best Tesla for in-car camping. Camp mode is awesome!

 

[SCTesla]

I personally find the 7-seat Model X to be an extremely nice and useful SUV. Unlike the 6-seat model, you can fold the 2nd and 3rd rows down flat and haul a “truckload” of stuff. Sure you don’t want to fill it with cement and manure but it certainly can haul typical family stuff. I thought the falcon doors were a gimmick but they are very useful when loading large objects as they open up completely and allow full access so you can not only get big stuff in, you can maneuver them around.

And it’s the best Tesla for in-car camping. Camp mode is awesome!

Agreed. IMO, it's Tesla 2nd most useful vehicle behind the CT.

I love my MS, but outside of looks and acceleration, the MX is a more useful vehicle on a similar platform.

 

[Cybertruck2024]

I get what you are saying.. but the costs of a dealership is dumb.. when the goal is to make affordable EVs, the dealership model with markups is anti-mission and not smart…
Finding ways to get butts in seats at the showrooms I could see making sense, but find me 2 out of 10 people that enjoyed their car buying experience through a dealership.. vs finding me people who loved the Tesla app and car buying experience

If there's a reason I'll move away from Tesla, it is the buying experience. Now that I've gotten 2,000 miles in my Beast, I am confident it's the next step in truck evolution versus my Lightning...

However, I loved my Ford dealer and buying my Lightning was exponentially better than buying my Cybertruck. To the point if someone asked "should I get a CT or a Lightning?," I'd ask them what they value most when buying a new vehicle. If it's customer service, don't go anywhere near Tesla, they are dead last by a mile. Just like I went Tesla to Ford (Model 3 to Lightning), I am pretty sure my next vehicle won't be a Tesla, I am just soured on the BS.

If they stopped charging the delivery fee for online orders and charged $2k for dealer orders, I think you'd be surprised how many people go to the dealer if they provided premium service. I certainly would pay a $2k premium if my Ford dealers had Teslas on the lot.

 

[igs]

However, I loved my Ford dealer and buying my Lightning was exponentially better than buying my Cybertruck.

Traditional dealers have good customer service until you pay and drive off the lot, then they completely ignore you.

 

[CyberTW]

If there's a reason I'll move away from Tesla, it is the buying experience. Now that I've gotten 2,000 miles in my Beast, I am confident it's the next step in truck evolution versus my Lightning...

However, I loved my Ford dealer and buying my Lightning was exponentially better than buying my Cybertruck. To the point if someone asked "should I get a CT or a Lightning?," I'd ask them what they value most when buying a new vehicle. If it's customer service, don't go anywhere near Tesla, they are dead last by a mile. Just like I went Tesla to Ford (Model 3 to Lightning), I am pretty sure my next vehicle won't be a Tesla, I am just soured on the BS.

If they stopped charging the delivery fee for online orders and charged $2k for dealer orders, I think you'd be surprised how many people go to the dealer if they provided premium service. I certainly would pay a $2k premium if my Ford dealers had Teslas on the lot.

We’ll agree to disagree . My Honda and ford experiences were fine, but my Tesla experiences were exceeding better.. from starting in the app to delivery, and it wasn’t close.
Two different experiences

and just to be clear, you would recommend someone buy a lightning over a cybertruck if all they cared about was customer service and nothing about the actual performance of the rigs? Buyers think like that? Like, they are equal-ish trucks, so if you want good customer service, get the lightning…? I guess I am an odd ball, because that doesn’t make sense, but I don’t doubt your experiences

 

[Stuck4ger]

Yeah, my experience with Ford, Honda, and Toyota dealerships taught me to not use dealerships for service as they all want to upcharge. With Tesla I only use a Tesla SC and have always been very happy with them. Yes, the delivery experience is unique and you’re kind of given the car and left to the wolves but if you don’t read their texts and watch their training videos, well, that’s on you. And judging by some of the most basic of questions from some of the CT owners here, many of them didn’t do that. And many of them put value in a delivery experience that includes fake pleasantries that stroke their ego.

 

[Sirkevin]

mine arrived today with the all terran tires option only. I could take it or wait for all season tires, so went ahead and accepted the t tires and picking it up in the morning

 

[Cybertruck2024]

We’ll agree to disagree . My Honda and ford experiences were fine, but my Tesla experiences were exceeding better.. from starting in the app to delivery, and it wasn’t close.
Two different experiences

and just to be clear, you would recommend someone buy a lightning over a cybertruck if all they cared about was customer service and nothing about the actual performance of the rigs? Buyers think like that? Like, they are equal-ish trucks, so if you want good customer service, get the lightning…? I guess I am an odd ball, because that doesn’t make sense, but I don’t doubt your experiences

My buying experience was so bad, I took a vehicle off from Tesla. I'm going to do it again with my next one. Tesla product is so good I keep coming back for the abuse, but upfront it is just atrocious.

I've also come to see that the Tesla buying experience differs substantially depending where you live. The issue with Tesla's model is there's a monopoly over where I can buy my vehicle. If the experience stinks at your local store, nothing you can do about it.

When I go legacy auto, about half of the dealerships in town treat you like a king. The other half aren't good, but that's where not having a monopoly on the experience is good. I'll probably go from M3P to Ioniq 5 N or the Mach-E Rally. I may go back to e-tron as well. If Tesla matched up to the quality of these dealers, I'd just get a M3P Refresh.

 

[Macgreiner]

Interesting. I have so hated each and every interaction with dealerships that Tesla would need to do something borderline illegal for me to ever go back to purchasing through a dealership. They are the equivalent of real estate agents to me - provide little to no utility in an online world.

 

[cbrtrckrsrvd112219]

Even Elon can't prove you wrong because nobody can predict what the car market will be doing in the future. It will be priced to sell, that's all we know.

The $35K base Model 3 was available from the last month or two of 2018 into 2019. It was on-menu for a month or so, most of the time it was available, it was off-menu, meaning you had to contact your Delivery Center to order it. Even the people who ordered it for $35K got the premium interior and all-glass roof (which was supposed to be extra).

Now, years later, you can get a much better Model 3, quieter smoother, nicer driving, more features, with more range for only a few thousand more. Inflation adjusted it's probably $35K, or less.

I was hoping somebody can prove me wrong @HaulingAss based on the fact that noone even tries to prove me wrong unfortunately means that non-FS does not mean announced $79,999 CT. which means that all skippers (like me) are suckers who missed opportunity to drive CT today or very soon on the very baseless assumption that once FS is done there will be option to get CT without FS $20k markup.
I see Tesla to continue to keep 100k price point far as long as it can even after "dropping FS"

thank you for useful insight about M3 sales history.

your last point about M3 today and back in 2019 is irrelevant to this discussion. of course next year CT will be better then last. it is like arguing that it didnt make sense to buy very first iphone because iPhone 15 Pro is so much better today, duh!

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