FSD - It is going to kill you! But seriously, here’s the reality…

[Woodrick]

I know, slightly clickbait title for some, perceived reality for others.

Probably the best description of the current FSD product was used in the earlier disclaimers.

"FSD is going to do the worst thing at the worst time possible"

There's a lot to be said for that.

I've been driving a 2018 Model 3 for over 6 years and my wife has been driving her 2020 Model Y, both with FSD when purchased. We have put a lot of miles, most of our miles on all the different versions of FSD through the years.

For many people, if you get in the car, enable FSD, they are going to believe that it is going to kill them and that it is a terrible product and it drives really slow and it does all sorts of bad things. And indeed, sometimes it may.

FSD requires learning. Sure, Tesla has to train the FSD at the factory, but you too have to learn FSD.

FSD is overly cautious. When it comes to an intersection it will often stop at the stop cross bar as you are supposed to, but few do. From there, it often can't see the road well and it will creep up until it can see the road. When it is creeping, a message will appear on the screen. This causes it to take more time to go through an intersection than some people have the patience for. Have Patience!

FSD does not drive the way that YOU do. It is not going to go the same speed, it is not going to make turns the same way. It's not going to change lanes as you would. It's not going to do things the way that you would. You have to understand how FSD does things.

FSD with Automatic Speed Control is going go fast on some roads and slow on others. Speed Control is actually a really new feature and there is still tuning to do. If it is going too slow, just add a little accelerator and you can probable let it off after the speed is set.

Phantom Braking is a part of most advanced systems and is present on the products from most, if not all manufacturers. If the car starts to slow, just hold the accelerator. It doesn't happen much, but it does. And for a new driver that hasn't ever experienced it, it is scary, but you aren't going to die.

School zones and some other situations with special speeds probably aren't in this version yet.

FSD is actually MUCH more advanced than people give it credit for. It will properly pass a mail truck or bicycle on the side of the road. It will wait if there is oncoming traffic.

If you are approaching a situation that you don't feel comfortable with, just disengage by lightly tapping the brake. Next time, when you are ready to do it again, just slow the speed down to a point where you are comfortable taking control if you need to. Odds are that FSD is going to correctly handle the situation. But change the odds in your favor by slowing down.

When you first start driving FSD, do it on an Interstate or low traffic divided 4 lane road. Yes, it doesn't like driving in the right lane, but if it sees someone come up from behind, it will switch to the right lane.
Get experience on the lighter travelled roads where you aren't afraid of what the other drivers are going to do first.

Take your time, learn FSD. I had the advantage of taking 6 years to learn each piece as it was introduced. I wish that Tesla would have some sort of gradual introduction for new drivers, but it doesn't.

Yes, you are going to get FSD in your Cybertruck and you are going to enable it and you are going to start out and in not too long, it will try to kill you.

But over weeks and months, you should learn that it really wasn't going to kill you.

I remember 8+ years ago, my wife was driving a car with ADAS that provided adaptive cruise control and lane keeping. I was trying to get her to turn it on and she was too scared to do so. Today, she kicks on FSD in the driveway.

It takes time to learn to feel confirtable with FSD!

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[fhteagle]

I had the FSD trial on my Y last month, I think it was V12.3.5 . Half a mile from the house, it steered directly at a yellow and black chevron striped sign demarking the end of a culvert where the road narrowed by a couple of feet. I let it go as long as I could without jeopardizing safety. It got within about 15 feet of it still happily going 25 mph, still steering _directly_at_ the hazard sign, _off_the_side_of_the_road_.

In my former career, testing autopilots on business jets was a big part of my job. I'm used to glitches, always ready to disengage and take over, etc. I'm not nervous around automation at all. But FSD is _not_ smart enough to be operating unsupervised on public roads yet. Period.
Anyone who thinks FSD is ready to operate as a robotaxi anytime soon has purchased the Full Self Deception product instead.

 

[Stuck4ger]

I know, slightly clickbait title for some, perceived reality for others.

Probably the best description of the current FSD product was used in the earlier disclaimers.

"FSD is going to do the worst thing at the worst time possible"

There's a lot to be said for that.

I've been driving a 2018 Model 3 for over 6 years and my wife has been driving her 2020 Model Y, both with FSD when purchased. We have put a lot of miles, most of our miles on all the different versions of FSD through the years.

For many people, if you get in the car, enable FSD, they are going to believe that it is going to kill them and that it is a terrible product and it drives really slow and it does all sorts of bad things. And indeed, sometimes it may.

FSD requires learning. Sure, Tesla has to train the FSD at the factory, but you too have to learn FSD.

FSD is overly cautious. When it comes to an intersection it will often stop at the stop cross bar as you are supposed to, but few do. From there, it often can't see the road well and it will creep up until it can see the road. When it is creeping, a message will appear on the screen. This causes it to take more time to go through an intersection than some people have the patience for. Have Patience!

FSD does not drive the way that YOU do. It is not going to go the same speed, it is not going to make turns the same way. It's not going to change lanes as you would. It's not going to do things the way that you would. You have to understand how FSD does things.

FSD with Automatic Speed Control is going go fast on some roads and slow on others. Speed Control is actually a really new feature and there is still tuning to do. If it is going too slow, just add a little accelerator and you can probable let it off after the speed is set.

Phantom Braking is a part of most advanced systems and is present on the products from most, if not all manufacturers. If the car starts to slow, just hold the accelerator. It doesn't happen much, but it does. And for a new driver that hasn't ever experienced it, it is scary, but you aren't going to die.

School zones and some other situations with special speeds probably aren't in this version yet.

FSD is actually MUCH more advanced than people give it credit for. It will properly pass a mail truck or bicycle on the side of the road. It will wait if there is oncoming traffic.

If you are approaching a situation that you don't feel comfortable with, just disengage by lightly tapping the brake. Next time, when you are ready to do it again, just slow the speed down to a point where you are comfortable taking control if you need to. Odds are that FSD is going to correctly handle the situation. But change the odds in your favor by slowing down.

When you first start driving FSD, do it on an Interstate or low traffic divided 4 lane road. Yes, it doesn't like driving in the right lane, but if it sees someone come up from behind, it will switch to the right lane.
Get experience on the lighter travelled roads where you aren't afraid of what the other drivers are going to do first.

Take your time, learn FSD. I had the advantage of taking 6 years to learn each piece as it was introduced. I wish that Tesla would have some sort of gradual introduction for new drivers, but it doesn't.

Yes, you are going to get FSD in your Cybertruck and you are going to enable it and you are going to start out and in not too long, it will try to kill you.

But over weeks and months, you should learn that it really wasn't going to kill you.

I remember 8+ years ago, my wife was driving a car with ADAS that provided adaptive cruise control and lane keeping. I was trying to get her to turn it on and she was too scared to do so. Today, she kicks on FSD in the driveway.

It takes time to learn to feel confirtable with FSD!

Well said! It’s the little things that can initially make you nervous like centering in the lane when you might naturally bias to one side. My partner was scared to use FSD for a long time and then would be scared to use it in traffic and other situations where it actually makes you safer. She finally learned to trust it and loves it.

 

[showmemo]

Trialed about a month ago on my M3P and it was very good, except for 1 specific thing: when it would pass on the highway, it wouldn't re-enter the right lane unless a car was close or closing quickly behind me... so it just stayed in the passing lane. Biggest gripe... otherwise, I thought it was very solid.

 

[Obie_fl]

I'd just echo what @Woodrick and @Stuck4ger said. My better half hated FSD when I was driving now that she has her own Model Y she uses it all the time. The best description of FSD I've heard recently from a service center worker "Think of it as a teenager just learning to drive".

 

[CyberTruckeeTheOne]

I love the phantom hard braking "it's not going to kill you" twice in the post.

Yeah, maybe it will -- the one on the car at the back with your sharp panels.

In my case, it will soon be my wife thinking that's me suddenly not knowing how to drive.

 

[JJ_CT]

I am experiencing many zero intervention drive these days using FSD. There's one spot in the highway where FSD gets confused with the right/left lane split, and there's one tollbooth where FSD is a little bit unsure (but does pass through the toll gate eventually), but other than that, I'm seeing FSD perform quite well since v11. I'm now on v12.4.3 (Model 3), and can't wait for FSD to be on the CyberTruck.

 

[Stuck4ger]

Trialed about a month ago on my M3P and it was very good, except for 1 specific thing: when it would pass on the highway, it wouldn't re-enter the right lane unless a car was close or closing quickly behind me... so it just stayed in the passing lane. Biggest gripe... otherwise, I thought it was very solid.

Did you select the “exit passing lane” option on the autopilot page? I normally like that but in some traffic conditions that will tend to box you in and then it will patiently await the next passing opportunity. In those cases Mad Max mode works best

 

[lowtek]

Our generation(s) likely won't put our kids in an autonomous vehicle and send them off to school. But our kid's kids will because it's normal and what they are used to.

You can see the same pattern over and over in history. It was the same when automobiles replaced horses.

 

[showmemo]

Did you select the “exit passing lane” option on the autopilot page? I normally like that but in some traffic conditions that will tend to box you in and then it will patiently await the next passing opportunity. In those cases Mad Max mode works best

hmmm... I saw a 'minimize lane changes' option, but nothing that said 'exit passing lane', I'll have to look again.

 

[cgladue]

I know, slightly clickbait title for some, perceived reality for others.

Probably the best description of the current FSD product was used in the earlier disclaimers.

"FSD is going to do the worst thing at the worst time possible"

There's a lot to be said for that.

I've been driving a 2018 Model 3 for over 6 years and my wife has been driving her 2020 Model Y, both with FSD when purchased. We have put a lot of miles, most of our miles on all the different versions of FSD through the years.

For many people, if you get in the car, enable FSD, they are going to believe that it is going to kill them and that it is a terrible product and it drives really slow and it does all sorts of bad things. And indeed, sometimes it may.

FSD requires learning. Sure, Tesla has to train the FSD at the factory, but you too have to learn FSD.

FSD is overly cautious. When it comes to an intersection it will often stop at the stop cross bar as you are supposed to, but few do. From there, it often can't see the road well and it will creep up until it can see the road. When it is creeping, a message will appear on the screen. This causes it to take more time to go through an intersection than some people have the patience for. Have Patience!

FSD does not drive the way that YOU do. It is not going to go the same speed, it is not going to make turns the same way. It's not going to change lanes as you would. It's not going to do things the way that you would. You have to understand how FSD does things.

FSD with Automatic Speed Control is going go fast on some roads and slow on others. Speed Control is actually a really new feature and there is still tuning to do. If it is going too slow, just add a little accelerator and you can probable let it off after the speed is set.

Phantom Braking is a part of most advanced systems and is present on the products from most, if not all manufacturers. If the car starts to slow, just hold the accelerator. It doesn't happen much, but it does. And for a new driver that hasn't ever experienced it, it is scary, but you aren't going to die.

School zones and some other situations with special speeds probably aren't in this version yet.

FSD is actually MUCH more advanced than people give it credit for. It will properly pass a mail truck or bicycle on the side of the road. It will wait if there is oncoming traffic.

If you are approaching a situation that you don't feel comfortable with, just disengage by lightly tapping the brake. Next time, when you are ready to do it again, just slow the speed down to a point where you are comfortable taking control if you need to. Odds are that FSD is going to correctly handle the situation. But change the odds in your favor by slowing down.

When you first start driving FSD, do it on an Interstate or low traffic divided 4 lane road. Yes, it doesn't like driving in the right lane, but if it sees someone come up from behind, it will switch to the right lane.
Get experience on the lighter travelled roads where you aren't afraid of what the other drivers are going to do first.

Take your time, learn FSD. I had the advantage of taking 6 years to learn each piece as it was introduced. I wish that Tesla would have some sort of gradual introduction for new drivers, but it doesn't.

Yes, you are going to get FSD in your Cybertruck and you are going to enable it and you are going to start out and in not too long, it will try to kill you.

But over weeks and months, you should learn that it really wasn't going to kill you.

I remember 8+ years ago, my wife was driving a car with ADAS that provided adaptive cruise control and lane keeping. I was trying to get her to turn it on and she was too scared to do so. Today, she kicks on FSD in the driveway.

It takes time to learn to feel confirtable with FSD!

if FSD does not drive like the rest of the humans on the road, but with fewer accidents, then its absolutely totally useless. i would rather walk than have my 80-year-old mother drive me everywhere, which is how FSD currently behaves. Until that can be more like a 40-something driver than hard pass. But i will use it for 5 minutes at a time on the highway while i check my emails or grab something from the back seat.

 

[Dazureus]

I extensively used Autopilot 1 (Moblie Eye) in my 2016 Model X for highway driving, but didn't really trust it much for local driving. It lacked all the environmental awareness of FSD and, in it's rudimentary form, relied in USS and the single front facing camera to detect road edges and vehicles. It's was great for its intended purpose and I had a high level of confidence in its performance.

FSD still makes me nervous when my wife uses it in her '21 Model Y, and will probably make me nervous when it's finally enabled in my '24 Cybertruck. I'm not apprehensive about object avoidance, because the on screen visualizations mostly reassure me about what the vehicle systems are seeing. The part that still unnerves me is the automatic driving behaviors for lane changes. It will probably take some more experience on my part, but I'm not confident (in my limited usage) that the vehicle is cognizant of vehicle distance AND speed of vehicles behind me when making lane changes. I'm a pretty conservative driver and don't mind waiting a good amount of time to change lanes if see someone behind me moving at a higher speed than I'm comfortable with. In its current form, FSD doesn't seem to share my concerns and will change lanes to pass a slow vehicle, but not change the max speed limit to accommodate traffic from behind to get back out of the way. I'm not sure what it's "speed differential tolerance" is, and there doesn't seem to be any settings for that. We have Mad Max mode, but not Cautious Granny mode. Again, it will probably just take some getting used to, for me to determine how the FSD behaves, but like others have said, it's not learning "my" driving behavior.

Something that is encouraging for the development of FSD is a conversation I had earlier in the summer. I'm not completely up to date on the current implementation and I'm not sure how much of the inner workings is public knowledge, but I was talking to a Tesla software engineer that remotely works on FSD development. Obviously I can't vouch for the validity of everything they were saying, but we were just two automotive software engineers talking shop.
They said that earlier FSD systems would have the cameras send raw image data to the FSD computers to be analyzed. New(er) systems are performing image processing on the camera ECUs themselves then sending wireframe data to the FSD computer, which saves bandwidth on the vehicle network. Also, they're using, or working on, a kind of V2V by proxy. If one Tesla vehicle sees a foreign object on the road, it can flag it and send it to Tesla, who can then send it down to all other vehicles in the area.

I asked them how FSD, specifically Tesla vision, will handle snowed out conditions; like no road edge visible fresh snow conditions. They said that using vehicle localization rules, FSD could use mailbox position ordinance and building setback rules to determine road location.

Again, I don't know how much of what they said is implemented, running in ghost mode, or is in research, but that, and what I'm seeing in my position working with the big 3, informs me about how far ahead Tesla development is ahead of the game. When people proclaim that Tesla has a 10 year advantage over legacy manufacturers, I can kind of believe it. Stuff I'm seeing in the development pipe is slated for production in 2-5 years (e.g. Zonal controllers, vehicle ethernet, SbW, 48V). That stuff is already in production in the Cybertruck and will definitely be propagated to the rest of the fleet. I've gotta believe that Tesla engineers are developing tech for the next 2-5 years as well, so you can see where the gap comes from. I know it's a running joke on the forums, but it's definitely real in the software development space: Tesla software moves fast and fixes it via OTA. It's literally their stated M.O. in development meetings, at it really rubs raw the legacy automotive software companies V&V teams.

Maybe I won't have to manually drive anymore when I'm retired. My kids probably won't have to manually drive much when they're adults.

 

[Woodrick]

FSD still makes me nervous when my wife uses it in her '21 Model Y, and will probably make me nervous when it's finally enabled in my '24 Cybertruck. I'm not apprehensive about object avoidance, because the on screen visualizations mostly reassure me about what the vehicle systems are seeing. The part that still unnerves me is the automatic driving behaviors for lane changes. It will probably take some more experience on my part, but I'm not confident (in my limited usage) that the vehicle is cognizant of vehicle distance AND speed of vehicles behind me when making lane changes. I'm a pretty conservative driver and don't mind waiting a good amount of time to change lanes if see someone behind me moving at a higher speed than I'm comfortable with. In its current form, FSD doesn't seem to share my concerns and will change lanes to pass a slow vehicle, but not change the max speed limit to accommodate traffic from behind to get back out of the way. I'm not sure what it's "speed differential tolerance" is, and there doesn't seem to be any settings for that. We have Mad Max mode, but not Cautious Granny mode. Again, it will probably just take some getting used to, for me to determine how the FSD behaves, but like others have said, it's not learning "my" driving behavior.

For me, FSD is awesome for lane changes, I tend to trust it more than myself.

If for some reason, a vehicle is barreling down the left lane when the car wants to turn, it will handle it. Sure, it may pull out in front of a fast-moving car, but it does so safely.
But if it realizes that the fast-moving car is getting too close, it will balk on the lane change and move back.

 

[Stuck4ger]

For me, FSD is awesome for lane changes, I tend to trust it more than myself.

If for some reason, a vehicle is barreling down the left lane when the car wants to turn, it will handle it. Sure, it may pull out in front of a fast-moving car, but it does so safely.
But if it realizes that the fast-moving car is getting too close, it will balk on the lane change and move back.

Exactly. If I want to change lanes I’ll typically have to take a moment to study the range and velocity of those behind me. FSD has already done it because it does so continuously and very capably.

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