Game over ICE and Tesla knows it.

[Tinker71]

Hopefully administrator can view this as an investor post rather than a political rant.

After about 350 Whr/Kg @ $80 per kWhr it is game over ICE and game over hydrocarbons. We are so close and Tesla knows it.

We don't need to ban coal. With the low cost of solar and wind and now stationary storage. We don't need it. Same with Natural Gas.
We don't need to ban ICE. The market will take care of itself. Faster, quieter, more power, and soon to be cheaper with acceptable range and charging. There will be a few stubborn die-hards or legit daily remote haulers where it will make since to stick with ICE for a while, but eventually society will not need to maintain an ICE infrastructure.
We don't need to denigrate big oil. It may feel good, but is almost pointless now. They will die a free market death if we only end ALL subsidies.
We don't need a BEV tax credit because in a year or maybe 3 you would be a fool to buy an ICE (uncertainty in fuel prices) Each ICE bought from here forward is a potential liability for future fueling and resale.

Concerning Climate Change (emissions from transportation and energy anyway) We don't need to keep blabbering on about it. The fee market will self correct.

Elon and Tesla knows all of this. I think Tesla is going for the kill shot for market dominance. Let everyone else keep investing in ICE , hydrocarbons, hybrids and PHEV. Every dollars spent now on these other technologies by others, puts Tesla that much further ahead. As TSLA share holders we need to wait a few more years for nature to take it's course.

What I wish Elon would acknowledge is that Government Investment got us to where we are much faster than the free market alone. The supply chain is almost built and the cost to performance will continue to improve, but give credit to Government when due.

So Elon's embrace of Donald Trump or Harris winning is in consequential to TSLA stock in the long run. Trump winning would be a win for TSLA, people would follow the red herring longer. I don't think Elon really likes Trump as a competent executive, maybe he finds the over the top LGBTQI stuff annoying and he hates the slow pace of bureaucracy, that is the only reason he supports him.

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[GatorCyber]

Over 95% of all new energy capacity is already solar/battery/wind. Coal and natural gas are already dead. It's even cheaper to just install new solar/wind/battery than to continue to fuel existing nat gas and coal.
EVs will follow.

 

[XCeilidhX]

So basically, you have outlined how the news media has been bought off by petroleum companies to post myriad hate articles about the CT/CB on a daily basis to attempt a character assassination before the oil companies lose money when people switch from ICE pickup trucks to BEV pickups because they are so much better and that's why nearly all the media articles about the CT/CB talk trash about it rather than the tech highlights about why it is so much better than current offerings?

I'm shocked. (clearly sarcastic)

Cheers.

 

[Tinker71]

So basically, you have outlined how the news media has been bought off by petroleum companies to post myriad hate articles about the CT/CB on a daily basis to attempt a character assassination before the oil companies lose money when people switch from ICE pickup trucks to BEV pickups because they are so much better and that's why nearly all the media articles about the CT/CB talk trash about it rather than the tech highlights about why it is so much better than current offerings?

I'm shocked. (clearly sarcastic)

Cheers.

negatory - the opposite. FUD won't matter. Economics is going to take over. The CT at 500 mile range and $70,000 will speak for itself. We are so close.

 

[XCeilidhX]

Well, when we get there, agreed. But I think on many levels we already have plenty of reasons to eschew the ICE BS and tell the oil giants to go f**k themselves. And that feels good to be a part of already.

Having been one of the first 1K reservation holders for the model S, it feels so damn good to give big oil companies the middle finger over and over again so there never needs to be another war or American soldier's blood for oil in the future.

They say the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he doesn't exist. I say the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing those that support the USA military that the oil companies were on their side and they should be haters of BEVs. The quickest way to end so many wars and pull our military from harm in many cases is to rid ourselves of the oil addiction. And I cannot wait to see the oil economy and the wars it requires to sustain itself sink into history as the Titanic sank into the sea.

Cheers

 

[R2B2]

Hopefully administrator can view this as an investor post rather than a political rant.

After about 350 Whr/Kg @ $80 per kWhr it is game over ICE and game over hydrocarbons. We are so close and Tesla knows it.

We don't need to ban coal. With the low cost of solar and wind and now stationary storage. We don't need it. Same with Natural Gas.
We don't need to ban ICE. The market will take care of itself. Faster, quieter, more power, and soon to be cheaper with acceptable range and charging. There will be a few stubborn die-hards or legit daily remote haulers where it will make since to stick with ICE for a while, but eventually society will not need to maintain an ICE infrastructure.
We don't need to denigrate big oil. It may feel good, but is almost pointless now. They will die a free market death if we only end ALL subsidies.
We don't need a BEV tax credit because in a year or maybe 3 you would be a fool to buy an ICE (uncertainty in fuel prices) Each ICE bought from here forward is a potential liability for future fueling and resale.

Concerning Climate Change (emissions from transportation and energy anyway) We don't need to keep blabbering on about it. The fee market will self correct.

Elon and Tesla knows all of this. I think Tesla is going for the kill shot for market dominance. Let everyone else keep investing in ICE , hydrocarbons, hybrids and PHEV. Every dollars spent now on these other technologies by others, puts Tesla that much further ahead. As TSLA share holders we need to wait a few more years for nature to take it's course.

What I wish Elon would acknowledge is that Government Investment got us to where we are much faster than the free market alone. The supply chain is almost built and the cost to performance will continue to improve, but give credit to Government when due.

So Elon's embrace of Donald Trump or Harris winning is in consequential to TSLA stock in the long run. Trump winning would be a win for TSLA, people would follow the red herring longer. I don't think Elon really likes Trump as a competent executive, maybe he finds the over the top LGBTQI stuff annoying and he hates the slow pace of bureaucracy, that is the only reason he supports him.

along the same lines, and not meant to be political, but one of the great benefits of EVs is we no longer have to feel like we’re funding Iran or some other middle-eastern country’s misadventure when we drive to work in our ICE.

I suspect the ICE will end up in a niche market with people who grow their own weed or still roll their own cigarettes.

 

[Dahongfei]

along the same lines, and not meant to be political, but one of the great benefits of EVs is we no longer have to feel like we’re funding Iran or some other middle-eastern country’s misadventure when we drive to work in our ICE.

I suspect the ICE will end up in a niche market with people who grow their own weed or still roll their own cigarettes.

I agree, unless your state is using fossil fuels for electricity, and we import a lot of that.
But, if you’re off the grid and using solar, then you truly have no dependence on the Middle East.

 

[carsonag01]

Our wars are mostly fought to fund the Defense Industrial Base a.k.a. the Military Industrial Complex because Blackrock has the vast majority of our representatives under control.

We have more than enough oil and natural gas within our country and are not in need of OPEC.

The vast amount of disinformation/propaganda that has formed public opinion is mind-blowing.

 

[Speedr]

The other point to make is that once you go EV (at least with a Tesla), you're not going back to gas. So this is a ratcheting effect, which will only go in one direction. The only question left is, how fast will it happen.

I think once FSD is solved and you can sleep/work/watch a movie, be on your phone, etc. while in the car, no one will buy anything else, which will help accelerate the transition even more...

 

[EmmA]

I have always been fascinated by renewable and clean energy. Not so much for the environmental impact--although nice--but more for the freedom and autonomy of self-sustainment. In other words I don't want to be tied to oil, the grid, or some other form of government control. I think Tesla knows this and that's why they are all in on solar and battery backup as well. I don't mind paying *some* taxes, but tying it to energy consumption is IMO a huge obstacle for clean energy adoption.
Oil, Natural gas, diesel, etc. is a significant money maker in terms of government revenue. Gas taxes alone in WA state are up to $0.50 per gallon. It is not in the interest of government to move towards EVs, or other renewable clean energy sources without a comparable replacement for bringing in that revenue. And making that transition without people noticing and objecting is going to be very difficult. That's why you see these state implement EV taxes credits and rebates in order to get people to ignore the incoming yearly EV fees. "look I got a 1500 rebate!" while not realizing that there's now a $150/year EV fee, or whatever it is.
Right now in WA state our yearly EV registration taxes are ~$275 and everybody I know who drives an EV is not happy about it.
And this is only the beginning. Wait until they start monitoring miles driven, or come up with some new way to perpetually tax Solar panels, or battery backups.

 

[Tinker71]

I have always been fascinated by renewable and clean energy. Not so much for the environmental impact--although nice--but more for the freedom and autonomy of self-sustainment. In other words I don't want to be tied to oil, the grid, or some other form of government control. I think Tesla knows this and that's why they are all in on solar and battery backup as well. I don't mind paying *some* taxes, but tying it to energy consumption is IMO a huge obstacle for clean energy adoption.
Oil, Natural gas, diesel, etc. is a significant money maker in terms of government revenue. Gas taxes alone in WA state are up to $0.50 per gallon. It is not in the interest of government to move towards EVs, or other renewable clean energy sources without a comparable replacement for bringing in that revenue. And making that transition without people noticing and objecting is going to be very difficult. That's why you see these state implement EV taxes credits and rebates in order to get people to ignore the incoming yearly EV fees. "look I got a 1500 rebate!" while not realizing that there's now a $150/year EV fee, or whatever it is.
Right now in WA state our yearly EV registration taxes are ~$275 and everybody I know who drives an EV is not happy about it.
And this is only the beginning. Wait until they start monitoring miles driven, or come up with some new way to perpetually tax Solar panels, or battery backups.

Yes EV wear the road and need to pay their share. Right now they are heavier due to the battery and should pay for that extra weight. Maybe they will weigh the same in 5 years. I think we all need to get charged by the metric ton - KM some how. This will encourage smaller more efficient vehicles and less pointless driving.

Yes to Elon's point, the subsidies and credits can go away soon. They are confusing and their benefits are having diminishing returns now that the supply chain is largely in place. The economics can take it the rest of the way.

ICE cars will be a rarity in 10 years and the roads need to get paid for. It should be a transparent transition in my opinion.

 

[Tinker71]

I agree, unless your state is using fossil fuels for electricity, and we import a lot of that.
But, if you’re off the grid and using solar, then you truly have no dependence on the Middle East.

The USA is more oil independant than ever. That is a fact. While Kamala Harris won't ban fracking to keep this momentum and cost/inflation down, she also knows that market forces is going to take over and she won't need to. The market will ban fracking by itself because the tipping point is near. I am on board with this strategy, but we do need to end the oil subsidies. Closely followed by weening EV subsidy.

 

[DJAlan2000]

I agree, unless your state is using fossil fuels for electricity, and we import a lot of that.
But, if you’re off the grid and using solar, then you truly have no dependence on the Middle East.

Ahhh, but you DON'T want to be 'off the grid' even while using solar... Just the opposite... You want to use that 'excess' solar and send it BACK TO THE GRID (need to be on the grid) to MAKE money from your solar system in addition to 'saving' money... If I only USE 9 kWh's of power in a day but I MAKE 40 kWh's of extra power and then send it to the grid, that means I 'sold' SCE about 31 kWh's worth of power (at anywhere from 0.23 to 0.62 per kWh) per day... That will help pay for the 'minimum' fees they attach for just having a meter, government taxes and fees, etc...

But in any case, THEY will be paying ME for power that I can MAKE instead of the other way around...

 

[Crissa]

We do need enough cars and trucks to be built, though.

The supply is currently constrained.

ICE has an entry point tens of thousands of dollars lower than BEV, even though BEV has a lower TCO - Total Cost of Ownership.

That's really the only thing that's standing in the way. Supply.

Yes EV wear the road and need to pay their share. Right now they are heavier due to the battery and should pay for that extra weight. Maybe they will weigh the same in 5 years.

Yes, but the more cost isn't comparible to the damage done by that weight.

My motorcycle costs more to register than my ICE car. It's not any heavier than other motorcycles.

And the surcharge for an EV is more than what I pay for my ICE in gas taxes. These flat fees just don't work out as fair or equitable to the BEV owner.

I think we all need to get charged by the metric ton - KM some how. This will encourage smaller more efficient vehicles and less pointless driving.

And miles. Somehow. Maybe bring back safety inspections.

-Crissa

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