Non-Foundation Series has less range than Foundation Series

[mongo]

Yes.

I enjoyed reading everyone's theories to explain this minor discrepancy, but none of them explain everything satisfactorily. We are missing something here.

Better data resulted in a re-estimation of range:
Why didn't Tesla apply it to all the same models? And it appears the range is in-line with, or better than, EPA range estimates in EPA drive cycles.

Different tires:
Where is the evidence for this? It loooks like the non-Foundation and Foundation models have the same tire options.

So they can charge a fee later for a range unlock:
I think Tesla is highly unlikely to try to monetize such a small difference in range.

Did I forget any other theories? @mongo, you haven't weighed in yet.

My laundry list (with caveat that the largest range shift is <5%).
Using a lower range shifts when pack degradation warranty kicks in, making non-FS higher inital profit
Tesla could be removing 56 (4x2x7) cells from each pack
Tesla is hedging against energy density of upcoming cell chemistries
Tesla is hedging against cells from Panasonic
Tesla made changes to drive units or chassis that result in slightly lower efficiency

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[TheMachinewon]

as of october 1st, 50% discount on EV tax. full sales tax starting next year.

Thanks,, I went back and saw that,, man NJ sucks ! I had no tax on my Tesla Rav4. and my model 3,,, bastards are always screwing us

 

[TheMachinewon]

I don't know where you guys are driving at 80 milles per hr all the time.. but most of us aren't racing around long distances here in NJ.. @ 70 /80, that's for the parkway speed and Turnpike.. Tickets every where else. Some guy posted "380 range, "Normal driving" below 70 mostly. I fall into that category in my area. If not, Po po would be on my ass. I'm hoping someone does a range test for everyday driving.

 

[VAF84]

Geography matters on the range as well. Higher elevations like Denver would likely have better numbers than Texas due to air density. Google says Denver has 82% the air density of sea level.

I always felt like TFL and Out of Spec, both out of Denver/Ft.Collins area, always had better numbers than what I'd see down south, but maybe that's just me, haven't actually analyzed the data.

 

[TheMachinewon]

Yes, they do. Tax at 3+% went into effect on 10/1 and it steps up to 6.625% in June 2025

I saw that,,, those M-F's screwing us even more,,, money grabbing dicks in NJ. My first two were Tax free

 

[HaulingAss]

My laundry list (with caveat that the largest range shift is <5%).
Using a lower range shifts when pack degradation warranty kicks in, making non-FS higher inital profit
Tesla could be removing 56 (4x2x7) cells from each pack
Tesla is hedging against energy density of upcoming cell chemistries
Tesla is hedging against cells from Panasonic
Tesla made changes to drive units or chassis that result in slightly lower efficiency

Thanks for your thoughts.

Two of your theories support the premise that the non-Foundation Cybertrucks coming off the line now actually do have less real world range. I do believe the non-Foundation trucks computers will reflect the new, slightly lower, range numbers (and that should be confirmed shortly by new non-Foundation owners).

I think it's a good bet the new numbers are the direct result of something that will reduce the cost of each truck (including your warranty theory).

 

[AlmostHuman]

On long road trips I start at 100%. I have gone from 100% down to 2% before. Obviously, I try not to do that but Wyoming, New Mexico, and West Texas aren't exactly small states with tons of super chargers. The main point is that I average ~400 Wh/mile. That isn't 80 mph for the entire discharge. There are a few sections of 65 mph in there along with sections of 85 mph. But the majority of the drives were around 80 mph. Worst section was going north out of Rock Springs up towards Jackson...that killed me. On the flip side, coming back home in that same stretch was a gainer. As they say, "ymmv".

Interesting, I am averaging 428 Wh/mi over 9,000 miles. Not disappointed in that number, love the truck, just interesting to me as I drive in chill 99% of the time and don’t drive aggressively.

 

[SCTesla]

Thanks for your thoughts.

Two of your theories support the premise that the non-Foundation Cybertrucks coming off the line now actually do have less real world range. I do believe the non-Foundation trucks computers will reflect the new, slightly lower, range numbers (and that should be confirmed shortly by new non-Foundation owners).

I think it's a good bet the new numbers are the direct result of something that will reduce the cost of each truck (including your warranty theory).

Or it could be that Tesla's EPA range was lower than the estimated published with the FS series? We saw that on all models with the EPA change at the beginning of the year, but the EPA hasn't listed that the CT has been EPA tested or a report submitted by Tesla as of this point.

 

[mongo]

Or it could be that Tesla's EPA range was lower than the estimated published with the FS series? We saw that on all models with the EPA change at the beginning of the year, but the EPA hasn't listed that the CT has been EPA tested or a report submitted by Tesla as of this point.

Cybertruck's GVWR exempts it from official EPA range testing.

 

[SCTesla]

Cybertruck's GVWR exempts it from official EPA range testing.

I understand that, but the Silverado EV has results. It's just a guess.

 

[HaulingAss]

Or it could be that Tesla's EPA range was lower than the estimated published with the FS series? We saw that on all models with the EPA change at the beginning of the year, but the EPA hasn't listed that the CT has been EPA tested or a report submitted by Tesla as of this point.

The Cybertruck doesn't have an official EPA range because the GVWR makes it exempt from the EPA efficiency rating. I bet EPA wouldn't even publish the figures if Tesla tried to submit them (but I don't know that).

I believe Tesla's range estimates are done using the same EPA test protocols that would be required if the Cybertruck was required to have EPA efficiency ratings. But Tesla has never said that, at least not to my knowledge. And I'm pretty sure Tesla would have done the EPA style of efficiency testing for their own purposes before releasing the first Cybertrucks. And if they had more accurate testing data now, I would expect them to apply it across the board to all models that data applied to.

The fact that they haven't lowered the range of the Foundation Series makes me think the non-Foundation actually do have slightly lower range. We just don't know why. It could also be that Tesla is being sneaky here by nerfing their range estimates on purpose, to encourage more Foundation sales.

 

[TyPope]

Interesting, I am averaging 428 Wh/mi over 9,000 miles. Not disappointed in that number, love the truck, just interesting to me as I drive in chill 99% of the time and don’t drive aggressively.

Chill rides higher than standard. I wonder if the difference could be the different ride height.

 

[mongo]

I understand that, but the Silverado EV has results. It's just a guess.

Do you happen to have a link? Google results are bouncing back to default EPA page...

 

[Facedown]

Here are my current stats. As I said earlier, my round trip from home to work has been averaging around 315 Wh/mile (currently shown is just my drive to work at 12 miles). Gotta go uphill to get home.

Since I’ve been driving more in town, my lifetime (379 Wh/mile or 325 mile range) has been getting better almost daily. Winter will put a halt to that eventually.

My Trip A stats (334 Wh/mile) for the last 2k miles are all miles from after my long summer road trips and are reflective of normal driving for me. This includes my daily commute, shopping trips, and multiple trips to the mountains, Fort Collins, Colorado Springs, and other local destinations. So, warm weather driving is getting me 368 miles range. Not bad.

 

[SSonnentag]

Why didn't Tesla apply it to all the same models? And it appears the range is in-line with, or better than, EPA range estimates in EPA drive cycles.

To my knowledge, the Cybertruck has not been EPA range tested.

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