Harvester Gas-Powered Range Extender for Cybertruck

[Crissa]

yeah. still have that video, still have the reservation. still says 500 and I do not have 500. Of course I did order the tri motor and got the AWD. Bend said I did not have a choice.

Well, you didn't have to step up and drop that $1000 nonrefundable... it seems the vast majority of reservations have just sat and waited for the next model invite!

-Crissa

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[mcm4ss]

Well, you didn't have to step up and drop that $1000 nonrefundable... it seems the vast majority of reservations have just sat and waited for the next model invite!

-Crissa

yeah. No patience after all those years I guess and the "locking" diffs plus the increased range over the Tri motor. But all things considered wished I had waited I guess, Still LOVE the truck. Not very happy with Tesla's CEO but do love the truck. I would like to know how much actual designing he did, how much tooling or is it like I think. Just a guy with an idea and had others make it happen.

 

[carsly]

I’ll wait for the Tesla Range Extender to drop in price. Can you imagine the noise and vibration of a 10 hp motor running in your vault? No thanks!

I think this is a solid play and/or wait for a v2 . I'd take half the capacity if I could still mount a spare tire in the bed. Right now, it's either/or and that's not a great situation. Or have a battery slab that can install underneath the rear seats permanently - not everyone has to buy it but for those of us who want a little extra battery and never flip up the back seats this could work well.

 

[MeadowShade]

I think this is a solid play and/or wait for a v2 . I'd take half the capacity if I could still mount a spare tire in the bed. Right now, it's either/or and that's not a great situation. Or have a battery slab that can install underneath the rear seats permanently - not everyone has to buy it but for those of us who want a little extra battery and never flip up the back seats this could work well.

The range is almost always the first question I get. Now I respond that the range is greater than my bladder!

I just think this is way over emphasized. Here is why.

More than 2/3's of my driving is around town. I charge and home overnight. So, as long as I can go up to about 200 miles each day. I am good. That is easy for the current battery pack.

Now on trips, generally I stop every 150 miles, I may be at 30% or around there and I charge back to 80%. That works because by the time I get to the bathroom, maybe a snack or walk my dog, and get my legs awake again, the truck is ready.

We have gone over 500 miles in a day lots of times. I much prefer 300 or less. Then you only have ONE charge stop (assuming you can charge at your destination) and that is it. We do that towing or not.

Yes ... it does take longer to charge than it does to fill a fuel tank, unless you spill some and you have to fumigate your shoes or pants!

I just saying ... the range is just NOT an issue in reality nearly as much as it is in their head and worrying about it. Yep, I have practically drifted in to some super chargers... less than 10% twice ... but ... I have a tow strap and a cell phone. All I need do is to get a guy to bring his pickup and tow me for a few miles in the direction of a charger ... that plus the regen I can get using his dinojuice truck will get me there.

I do NOT expect to ever actually have to do this ... but I am willing.

 

[Tinker71]

I’ll wait for the Tesla Range Extender to drop in price. Can you imagine the noise and vibration of a 10 hp motor running in your vault? No thanks!

A nice generator makes about 60 decibels. 20 kw is too much. This would be just for the 10 trips per year when 123 kwhr is not enough. The range extender battery heavy is not removable.

The harvester concept is better with current battery tech.

 

[Tinker71]

The range is almost always the first question I get. Now I respond that the range is greater than my bladder!

I just think this is way over emphasized. Here is why.

More than 2/3's of my driving is around town. I charge and home overnight. So, as long as I can go up to about 200 miles each day. I am good. That is easy for the current battery pack.

Now on trips, generally I stop every 150 miles, I may be at 30% or around there and I charge back to 80%. That works because by the time I get to the bathroom, maybe a snack or walk my dog, and get my legs awake again, the truck is ready.

We have gone over 500 miles in a day lots of times. I much prefer 300 or less. Then you only have ONE charge stop (assuming you can charge at your destination) and that is it. We do that towing or not.

Yes ... it does take longer to charge than it does to fill a fuel tank, unless you spill some and you have to fumigate your shoes or pants!

I just saying ... the range is just NOT an issue in reality nearly as much as it is in their head and worrying about it. Yep, I have practically drifted in to some super chargers... less than 10% twice ... but ... I have a tow strap and a cell phone. All I need do is to get a guy to bring his pickup and tow me for a few miles in the direction of a charger ... that plus the regen I can get using his dinojuice truck will get me there.

I do NOT expect to ever actually have to do this ... but I am willing.

Superchargers are too scarce in rural Utah Idaho.... basically the west. Backtracking to the highway is not feasible.

 

[CarMan ElecTruck]

BMW achieved basically double (and/or a sustained charge if needed) the range of the i3 with a similar startegy… ‘engine’ sounded like crap, but it was a means to a solution.. perceived little impact to the interior space, meaning cargo space between EV vs E-Rex was virtually identical if not absolute..

I have been hoping for other to adapt this again.. Karma Auto had a similar strategy.. Rex added more range and had a ‘performance’ drive mode which also allowed to take advantage of the ‘extra’ voltage in the form of ‘extra’ punch/acceleration/torque yadda yadda.. in addition to extra range.

I wonder how RAM will market theirs if/when it arrives.

I think there is a valid and unique place in the Autoworld for this application…

 

[MeadowShade]

It has a place for sure!

if it were an option for Tesla, people would laugh but there would be takers that really need it! Out west is a different story for sure!!

 

[HaulingAss]

This is why I love the small range extender. Low weight penalty, never truly bricked. Even a little fuel cell would work. Less noise and emissions equipment.

I have lots of range extenders. I call them Superchargers. I prefer them because I don't need a gas tank, a tailpipe and muffler, fuel injectors, starter motor, spark plugs, and a whole bunch of other things, like oil and filter changes and stops at a gas station. Plus, every year there are a bunch more popping up all over the place.

 

[HaulingAss]

The range is almost always the first question I get. Now I respond that the range is greater than my bladder!

I just think this is way over emphasized. Here is why.

More than 2/3's of my driving is around town. I charge and home overnight. So, as long as I can go up to about 200 miles each day. I am good. That is easy for the current battery pack.

Now on trips, generally I stop every 150 miles, I may be at 30% or around there and I charge back to 80%. That works because by the time I get to the bathroom, maybe a snack or walk my dog, and get my legs awake again, the truck is ready.

We have gone over 500 miles in a day lots of times. I much prefer 300 or less. Then you only have ONE charge stop (assuming you can charge at your destination) and that is it. We do that towing or not.

Yes ... it does take longer to charge than it does to fill a fuel tank, unless you spill some and you have to fumigate your shoes or pants!

I just saying ... the range is just NOT an issue in reality nearly as much as it is in their head and worrying about it. Yep, I have practically drifted in to some super chargers... less than 10% twice ... but ... I have a tow strap and a cell phone. All I need do is to get a guy to bring his pickup and tow me for a few miles in the direction of a charger ... that plus the regen I can get using his dinojuice truck will get me there.

I do NOT expect to ever actually have to do this ... but I am willing.

Yep, I carry a tow strap and soft shackles in all my Tesla for this very reason, and in 7 years I've never needed it except to pull other motorists out of the ditch!

 

[cardad]

I don't think anyone will be able to accomplish this. Because, sure, you can:

-Unlock the limits that prevent charging while driving
-Put a generator in the bed
-Figure out a way to charge without a big charge handle dangling over the edge of the truck


But we don't know if the batteries, or BMS are happy charging and discharging at the same time. And the generator itself will never be capable of the same power that the battery pack is, so you can't just figure out how to bypass the batteries (which I imagine would require a lot of hardware changes)...

but you'd also have to have a generator that's outputting, or being converted to, DC charging. 11.5kW AC charging is not enough to keep the truck at a given SoC while on the highway.

The math is a little complicated, because you don't just need to know the Wh/mi, but also the mph to get real numbers. But let's take a few scenarios. I'm just making them up off of the top of my head, but they aren't far from reality. In fact, during winter, I imagine there will be far worse numbers.


378Wh/mi @ 75mph requires 29kW charging to match the drain

450Wh/mi @ 75mph requires 33.8kW

500Wh/mi @ 85mph requires 42.5kW


So, for normal road tripping, in any situation, you basically need 50kW DC charging at the same time as driving. But if you're towing, you may need double that.

The reason the ram range extender is a full on V6 is because that's what you need to generate that kind of power. I'm helping a relative put a generator at their house, and the size and power of a 38kW unit is pretty insane. Let alone 48kW or 96kW.

The BMS should be able to accommodate this given that PHEVs have been doing the same for a long time and I think the technical feasibility is irrelevant because diesel will be winning the use case for a while longer when it comes to high power applications like towing.

The main problem for most is that once you get rid of the gas you realize you don’t want anything to do with it given the noise, smell, added maintenance, and pollution. It’s like going back to a gas ride on lawnmower after owning an electric one. You would be insane to choose the gas engine. If I’m using gas I don’t need a huge battery or maybe any HV battery at all.

If I were developing new products this seems like a potentially bad idea with the increasing prevalence of charging stations. The timeline for developing and producing this seems likely to be timed wrong and you’d end up with an obsolete product by the time it delivers. The RAM might succeed but if you follow Stellantis and their ongoing 4xe fiasco you wouldn’t be betting on them bringing any EV to market in a timely manner without some major technical issues. VW is in a similar boat and adding a gas RE seems like a step in the wrong direction as far as innovating. It makes a lot more sense to power a trailer with a gas/hybrid system to reduce the load on the battery vehicle and build various uses off of the same platform.

 

[FutureBoy]

If one were to create a range extending product, one idea I'd like to see is a towable trailer that had a substantial battery pack. Hit the supercharger and take 2 stalls: 1 for trailer, 1 for truck. Ideally the trailer would incorporate regen, air shocks to allow for leveling when parked, and be strong enough for customers to add camping tents or build out a small camper on top. Potentially there would be a way to extend the plug that the Tesla in-bed batter pack plugs into so that the trailer could plug in near the rear hitch. But if not, the trailer could have its own motors that push when the trailer is being pulled and brake when being pushed. With this extra battery, the power could be used for range extension or for powering camping/working tools.

I get that the majority of CT owners do not need this. If that is you then congratulations. Just keep your CT. But for those of us that want functionality that is outside the norm, this extra power would be really helpful. Making it sit in a trailer allows the CT to be choice full as to when it tows the extra power. Additionally it would allow the trailer to be rented out to multiple CTs over the year and share the cost involved.

Won’t be a huge market but could be incredibly useful and might make a viable company making these.

 

[sys700]

Have you considered adding an electric fan and a sail?

 

[Tinker71]

The Scout Harvester concept is intriguing. It has the ability to add 150 miles of range to a 350 mile range BEV pack. I want to hear more. How big, what ICE tech? I am thinking this is the ~ 12 HP ICE that I have been lobbying for forever. It just needs to be big enough to take advantage of the onboard charger.

This is how this would work. If you tell your vehicle that you intend to take a long trip, as soon as battery level drops below ~95% the range extender kicks in. It won't turn off until you are sure you can get to the next supercharger. For example if you are driving 70 mph your 'harvester will run for the next 7 hours. The range extender will add 20 miles of range for each hour of operation. You will still run out of juice at ~500 miles and will need to stop and charge to keep going, but as long as you have some fuel in your tank you won't be completely stranded. Just wait an hour and you can drive another 20 miles.

The Ram Range extender is a full on v6 gas motor, which is heavy. Like a giant battery this is something you need to haul around every day when you only need it occasionally. The harvester range extender or similar could weigh as little as 250#. Imagine being able to add this to the CT on a little removable skid.

Packaged right, this could be fairly light and removable even. This could be especially awesome if the little ICE could heat the rig with waste heat through the battery conditioning loop and heat pump which would almost eliminate winter range loss.

Hackers unite.

This is 170 lbs and can produce 7000 max running watts which could provide full power to the onboard charger. Obviously a purpose built fixed generator could be lighter and quieter than this, but it gives you an idea of the cost. Double or triple for detailing for sound and vibration mitigation. Delete the wheels, handle plugs, dedicate shipping etc. The tank would be remote to further reduce the volume. In a 10 hour driving day this could supplement 200 miles of range.

Tesla won't do it, but some EE just needs to hack the charger, computer, wiring harness and thermal management loop.

 

[mongo]

This is 170 lbs and can produce 7000 max running watts which could provide full power to the onboard charger. Obviously a purpose built fixed generator could be lighter and quieter than this, but it gives you an idea of the cost. Double or triple for detailing for sound and vibration mitigation. Delete the wheels, handle plugs, dedicate shipping etc. The tank would be remote to further reduce the volume. In a 10 hour driving day this could supplement 200 miles of range.

Tesla won't do it, but some EE just needs to hack the charger, computer, wiring harness and thermal management loop.

Onblard charger can do 48A, 11.5kW. The mobile connector is limited to 32A, 7.7kA.
Pairing a 12kW generator to a Wall Connector would give the maximum charge rate.

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