Solar range extender prototype

[ldjessee]

Yes, possible and in the prototype stage, so very expensive.

This also does not address the different legalities of different countries, provinces, states, etc.

Here in the US, some states get really picky about what is powered and how it is taxed. A trailer is considered unpowered, so might have to be plated as a vehicle if able to move on its own.

Trailers with sensors to help prevent jackknifes, regenerative braking, and battery storage could make a lot of sense in the right use cases.

But the utility has to outweigh the loss in cargo capacity (for commercial cargo vehicles), added complexity, costs, and weight.

If the towing vehicle, say a Tesla Semi, has a very heavy and large battery, why add another to the trailer to take from cargo capacity? It also drives up the cost of the trailer... and there are more trailers than trucks, so you would need to have even more electronics (chips, in short supply), more electric motors, and more batteries (don't have enough of those either), which means less EV trucks, cars, etc, because those things are going into trailers.

Now, once the majority of the fleet has been updated to EV, then there might be extra manufacturing capacity and components that this becomes more feasible... and probably more likely, as all of these companies that have ramped up to produce the chips, motors, batteries for EVs see their demand go from a volume of replacing the fleet to a maintenance volume of just keeping up with incremental growth and replacing worn out vehicles. This is when I see things like powered trailers becoming practical and affordable.

And maybe even the laws/regulation for such would have caught up.

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[Ogre]

3.2kW so around 350W panels x 9. Also has a powerwall inside it!

“Build by trainees at Tesla Automation as a proof of concept.”

This explains a bunch of the confusion here.

Not a product. Not a prototype, it’s just A tech demo done by trainees.

 

[tkal]

Is there an EV that can charge while also being driven?

Since trailers are electrically hooked up now a quick redesign of the plug could allow enough power. Separate lugs for the 12v system and high power, perhaps a CAN bus for BMS as well.

 

[Crissa]

Here in the US, some states get really picky about what is powered and how it is taxed. A trailer is considered unpowered, so might have to be plated as a vehicle if able to move on its own.

Well, they're trying.
https://www.thorindustries.com/innovation

And there's already powered trailer dollies and built in dollies.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

Yes, possible and in the prototype stage, so very expensive.

This also does not address the different legalities of different countries, provinces, states, etc.

Here in the US, some states get really picky about what is powered and how it is taxed. A trailer is considered unpowered, so might have to be plated as a vehicle if able to move on its own.

Trailers with sensors to help prevent jackknifes, regenerative braking, and battery storage could make a lot of sense in the right use cases.

But the utility has to outweigh the loss in cargo capacity (for commercial cargo vehicles), added complexity, costs, and weight.

If the towing vehicle, say a Tesla Semi, has a very heavy and large battery, why add another to the trailer to take from cargo capacity? It also drives up the cost of the trailer... and there are more trailers than trucks, so you would need to have even more electronics (chips, in short supply), more electric motors, and more batteries (don't have enough of those either), which means less EV trucks, cars, etc, because those things are going into trailers.

Now, once the majority of the fleet has been updated to EV, then there might be extra manufacturing capacity and components that this becomes more feasible... and probably more likely, as all of these companies that have ramped up to produce the chips, motors, batteries for EVs see their demand go from a volume of replacing the fleet to a maintenance volume of just keeping up with incremental growth and replacing worn out vehicles. This is when I see things like powered trailers becoming practical and affordable.

And maybe even the laws/regulation for such would have caught up.

The suggestion was in the context of the thread, being a solar range extender for EV cars.

I can agree that there are regulatory and technical hurdles, but my main reason for proposing trailer propulsion was to reduce the range loss for towing with an EV, not to use a trailer to increase EV range above what it already has.

In this type of setup the trailer would be configured in such a way that a simple load sensor on the hitch would regulate the amount of trailer motor assistance, so that the trailer appears to not cause any drag on the EV, but would not necessarily push the EV. Like that the driving and propulsion dynamics would remain much the same.

If you wanted to add a EV "boost" mode you could use a steering angle sensor on the hitch as well, that would reduce trailer throttle proportional to hitch angle and obviously be dependent on EV throttle and brake position. A bit like a reverse trailer brake controller.

Ideally though the ability to charge the front EV from the trailer whilst driving would be the best and most cost effective setup as it avoids all of the parts required for the trailer propulsion setup. A CT bed mounted ICE generator would then also be possible and suffice for a quick solution. Having an internal charge plug would be good for that.

 

[firsttruck]

Yes, possible and in the prototype stage, so very expensive.

This also does not address the different legalities of different countries, provinces, states, etc.

Here in the US, some states get really picky about what is powered and how it is taxed. A trailer is considered unpowered, so might have to be plated as a vehicle if able to move on its own.

....
And maybe even the laws/regulation for such would have caught up.

A electric motor powered trailer is in many ways similar to flat-towing/dinghy-towing/toad vehicle.

It is legal in every U.S. state for private vehicle to directly flat-towing/dinghy-towing/toad a car or truck and some states allow the towed vehicle to weigh as much as 5,000-10,000 pounds. In most Western U.S. states it is even legal to do this behind an already being towed travel trailer. In all U.S. states it is illegal to have people in the towed vehicle so probably no laws/regulations considered whether the towed vehicles was actual ON and providing motive power. In many cases what the laws/regulations do not prohibit means the activity MIGHT by default be allowed.

Remember before now the technology to do what we are talking about was not really possible so most laws/regulations probably do not prohibit it.

Even if today some places might have laws/regulations that are problematic but there are probably some places where it is legal today or which might legalized quickly. Quick places might be U.S. states California, Oregon, Washington state, Nevada, and countries in Europe. Just like there are some U.S. states that have already legalized no safety driver FSD cars even though none exist yet.

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Tow Brake Laws For States And Provinces:
https://www.readybrake.com/state-towing-laws.html

RV Triple Towing: Which States Allow It?
by Savannah Keaton
Published on March 21, 2021
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/rv-triple-towing-which-states-allow-it/
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For personal/home use this concept of electric motorized travel trailer would really be economically practical if trailers were rented and thus in use almost year round instead of typical family's 7-14 days a year.

For commercial trailers might be more economically practical if batteries could be swapped out and charged then moved to next trailer leaving the depot.


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Towing with an EV: Are electric trailers the future?
By Bengt Halvorson
August 8, 2021
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1133124_towing-with-an-ev-are-electric-trailers-the-future

.....
To prove the concept, Dethleffs last month covered a 240-mile route across the Alps that’s popular among European RV owners. Using an Audi E-Tron Sportback (EPA range rating of 218 miles) it towed the big travel trailer the entire route without charging. The route, which started at the company’s factory in Isny im Allgäu, Germany, took them over Brenner Pass and ends on the northern shore of Lake Garda, Italy. The system provides acceleration equivalent to what the E-Tron would otherwise offer as a solo vehicle, and the setup is calibrated to enhance stability.

.....
After pushing against a strong headwind for part of the trip, the E-Tron and trailer reached the destination with 82 kwh used by the E-Tron and 74 kwh used by the trailer. The E.Home Caravan prototype has two battery modules, each with about 40 kwh, with one in front of the axle and the other behind it. The trailer can also provide power out for other camping needs, or support solar cells on the roof. It can be charged at up to 7.2 kw on AC, and it’s compatible with 50-kw DC fast-charging. The batteries are contained within an inner frame, while an outer frame houses the inverter, charging unit, and control unit. There’s a protective honeycomb crash structure at the rear, and the company says that it’s completed various simulations for stability and reliability. The batteries plus drive system add up to about 1,320 pounds to the weight of the trailer, and although the supplier didn’t provide a total, it’s well within the E-Tron’s rated 4,000 pounds. It plans to cut the weight to about 880 pounds in the forthcoming production version. To compare, the E-Tron SUV’s battery pack amounts to 1,573 pounds.

.....
In February 2020 it towed a 4,000-pound trailer containing a GM EV1—the first modern electric car—from Tulsa, Oklahoma, to Austin, Texas, for an EV event. Over 504 miles in 35-degree weather, Audi averaged just 1.3 miles per kilowatt hour. That calculated out, given the E-Tron’s former 83.6-kwh usable range, to less than 110 miles per full charge—a nearly 50% reduction from the E-Tron’s expected EPA range. That was no anomaly. Over a 7,700-mile trip in 2019, friends of Green Car Reports saw a range cut of 45 to 60 percent when pulling a 3,800-pound travel trailer with their Tesla Model X rated to pull 5,000 pounds—amounting to a real-world range of well under 200 miles and bringing some logistical challenges (including Supercharger stalls that weren’t towing-friendly) that Tesla owners wouldn’t otherwise have to confront.

.....
As Dethleffs outlines, the E-Home Caravan isn’t yet legal in Europe. But with the support of the German Federal Ministry of Transport and a research initiative from RV companies, the testing process is underway and a framework could be adopted in the near future.


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*** near the end of the video, ZF engineer talks about why motor & battery in trailer concept is better than trying to put all batteries only in tow vehicle.

E.HOME Alpine Challenge 2021 (EN) 5 ZF's electric drive solution for caravans enables electric cars to be used as towing vehicles. The e-caravan prototype recently had to master the ultimate but appropriate "E.HOME Alpine Challenge:" a journey from the Allgäu, Germany to the city of Riva at Lake Garda – without recharging the batteries! Find out more about the E.HOME Alpine Challenge on our website: https://bit.ly/3iuYIeN
Jul 21, 2021
ZF Group

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[samroy92]

Was messing around trying to integrate the solar trailer into the bed of the cybertruck before GIMP crashed on me....

 

[firsttruck]

Was messing around trying to integrate the solar trailer into the bed of the cybertruck before GIMP crashed on me....

Nice job but you are losing almost half of the potential solar capture by skipping the Cybertruck roof.

Hmmm, with the extension from sail panel angle, looks kinda like wings. With some changes we might get a flying Cybertruck !

 

[firsttruck]

Krone is a large international manufacturer of commercial trailers and semitrailers for road freight transport.

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Trailer Dynamics and Krone announce strategic partnership
Prototype of the eMega Liner presented
Lingen/Werlte/Aachen, October 2021
https://www.krone-trailer.com/english/news/trailer-dynamics/

.....
Trailer Dynamics' innovative technology works with closely coordinated components. The key element is a powerful e-axle, which drives the semi-trailer and also recovers braking energy through recuperation. The battery energy carried in the eTrailer is sufficient especially for long distances over 500 km.

 

[charliemagpie]

Maybe the sail itself folds out to expose solar panels on the back.

 

[JBee]

Why not just make it wind powered sailing CT? Like a FTTWITW with a turbine.

Just need to pick windy days to drive.

 

[CyberGus]

...In all U.S. states it is illegal to have people in the towed vehicle so probably no laws/regulations considered whether the towed vehicles was actual ON and providing motive power...

Towing a box full of people is a terrible, terrible idea. But it is not universally outlawed.

https://blog.campingworld.com/rv-basics/what-states-can-you-ride-in-a-travel-trailer-or-fifth-wheel/

 

[Dusty]

Towing a box full of people is a terrible, terrible idea. . .

It's a party until . . .

 

[Ogre]

Why not just make it wind powered sailing CT? Like a FTTWITW with a turbine.

Just need to pick windy days to drive.

Tacking would be a challenge on narrow roads.

 

[SparkChaser]

not with these...

Flower Turbines Store (flower-turbines-store.myshopify.com)

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