Anyone else concerned about fog without radar?

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jhogan2424

jhogan2424

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There is a reconciliation of data delay between the two where radar’s information proved the lesser during the process.

which should the system ignore or use? With the current tech, visual development is greater of the two.

Forget the tech used, do you wish the system to be safer and more responsive?.
Yes, safer and more responsive is what I wish to have.
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I‘m sure the cameras outperform people, but I’m wondering how they could possibly outperform radar.
Cameras and radars are good for different types of measurements. That's why fusing cameras and radars makes so much sense. Cameras are OK for angular measurements and pattern recognition but not good for distance measurement unless you gate the light source essentially turning them into Lidars. Radars are good at measuring distance and speed. It's hard to understand how removing a data source from an estimation system improves its estimates unless it is completely redundant. I'd like to talk to the engineers at Tesla about this and find out the real reason it is being removed. Maybe something in this 4D Elon keeps talking about?

I usually try to avoid comment on the more absurd things posted here but the one about radar being blind to targets moving at the same speed as the radar has got to be one of the most absurd I've seen here. Completely untrue! In fact a radar responds best to targets moving at the same speed unless special circuits or processing are incorporated to prevent that from happening (MTI).
 
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There is a reconciliation of data delay between the two where radar’s information proved the lesser during the process.

which should the system ignore or use? With the current tech, visual development is greater of the two.

Forget the tech used, do you wish the system to be safer and more responsive?.
I wouldn’t want it to ignore either. In the case of a conflict between vision and radar just a simple warning of some type to gain drivers attention and let driver decide course of action.
 
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Cameras and radars are good for different types of measurements. That's why fusing cameras and radars makes so much sense. Cameras are OK for angular measurements and pattern recognition but not good for distance measurement unless you gate the light source essentially turning them into Lidars. Radars are good at measuring distance and speed. It's hard to understand how removing a data source from an estimation system improves its estimates unless it is completely redundant. I'd like to talk to the engineers at Tesla about this and find out the real reason it is being removed. Maybe something in this 4D Elon keeps talking about?
Perfect point that I was trying to get across and I 100% agree with you. As far as the specifics as to how the radar works I admit to not knowing enough to speak to that specifically.
 


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I wouldn’t want it to ignore either. In the case of a conflict between vision and radar just a simple warning of some type to gain drivers attention and let driver decide course of action.
And so it stops when it sees overpasses. Do you want that?

-Crissa
 
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I currently drive quite successfully in fog without radar. I expect this to continue.
So do I but sometimes you end up in a situation you don’t expect and that is what safety features are for. I don’t expect to hit a semi head on tomorrow but I am not going to remove my airbags and disable my antilock brakes just because they are made redundant by wearing my safety belt. I guess I’ll give up on this topic. I asked a question, and got responses. With few exceptions, I was generally disagreed with so i‘m wasting time that could be spent discussing something more fruitful.
 

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I usually try to avoid comment on the more absurd things posted here but the one about radar being blind to targets moving at the same speed as the radar has got to be one of the most absurd I've seen here.
I notice you don't bother to prove you point.

But what I said is true.



Once the relative speed becomes the same, the radar can't tell the objects apart. Radar can't see the lane markings or crests of hills. It just bounces off objects, with low resolution.

-Crissa
 
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And so it stops when it sees overpasses. Do you want that?

-Crissa
I’d lIke the option. I could put up with a few phantom obstructions that caused a beep or other type of alert that would let me decide if stopping was appropriate. That’s just me though. Maybe I’m just different.
 

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All radar does is give you a direction and general size of an object. The only other use for it is that it doesn't get hung up on water like visible light does. Since atmospheric attenuation is very minimal, it makes a lot of sense to use it for long ranges, especially when you're looking for generic objects in a big void (relative to radar)--like in aerospace applications.

Radar can absolutely tell you that there's an object in front of you while driving through fog, long before the cameras see it. But it can't tell you what it is. Just a solid something. The way Tesla implemented the radar was not so much for fog as it was for predicting traffic speed where you can't see--like 2-3 cars ahead of you. The way it was originally implemented, it wouldn't have helped you much in fog.
 


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I’d lIke the option. I could put up with a few phantom obstructions that caused a beep or other type of alert that would let me decide if stopping was appropriate. That’s just me though. Maybe I’m just different.
The same phantom braking every time you pass by the same overpass?

-Crissa
 
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All radar does is give you a direction and general size of an object. The only other use for it is that it doesn't get hung up on water like visible light does. Since atmospheric attenuation is very minimal, it makes a lot of sense to use it for long ranges, especially when you're looking for generic objects in a big void (relative to radar)--like in aerospace applications.

Radar can absolutely tell you that there's an object in front of you while driving through fog, long before the cameras see it. But it can't tell you what it is. Just a solid something. The way Tesla implemented the radar was not so much for fog as it was for predicting traffic speed where you can't see--like 2-3 cars ahead of you. The way it was originally implemented, it wouldn't have helped you much in fog.
I believe you are correct. Predicting traffic speed 2-3 cars ahead was one of my original examples of the value of radar. Traffic is standing still in the distance and the car in front of you is playing candy crush on his phone and rear ends the traffic at full speed. Your Tesla with RADAR is already aware of the stopped traffic and is braking before the idiot in front of you even impacts the traffic. Should your Tesla be equipped with vision only this would not have been possible no matter how advanced the visual software.
 

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I am having a hard time accepting that cameras can work as well as radar in fog.
What system allowed the Tesla to hit the broadside 18 wheeler? The news said the car detection system was not able to discern the gray trailer in the hazy sky so I assumed a visual camera system but other news said the sensors were looking at the road and looked under the trailer once it stretched across the road indicating more of a radar looking down at the road. Either way the company may be looking to find a system more accurate. This Tesla video from a couple years ago is clearly radar based and predicted the crash without seeing it. I want this in limited visibilty, not so I can drive faster but so that my CT can see beyond what I can see.
 
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The same phantom braking every time you pass by the same overpass?

-Crissa
That would not be ideal. Is that currently an issue with the Teslas? I’m genuinely asking because I haven’t owned a Tesla yet. My current truck is equipped with radar but I haven’t had that issue so far.
 
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What system allowed the Tesla to hit the broadside 18 wheeler? The news said the car detection system was not able to discern the gray trailer in the hazy sky so I assumed a visual camera system but other news said the sensors were looking at the road and looked under the trailer once it stretched across the road indicating more of a radar looking down at the road. Either way the company may be looking to find a system more accurate. This Tesla video from a couple years ago is clearly radar based and predicted the crash without seeing it. I want this in limited visibilty, not so I can drive faster but so that my CT can see beyond what I can see.
Thank you for the video! This is almost exactly the situation I had imagined. It would be absolutely impossible for a camera only system to have detected and stopped. Absolutely impossible.
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