Charge me by the ton mile

[Tinker71]

This is still a regressive tax. So, no. Federal and State taxation should be based on needs divided by the aggregate subtracting the population that does not make enough to pay taxes. Just say no to charging the working poor anything. Do you want 100% utilization? Making is more expensive and more complicated is not the way. Especially not when corporations, an economic construct for profit only, will do everything possible to keep profits, including shunting responsibility away from their balance sheets. Find the money from those that have it. Ultimately, who benefits from the trillions of profits in the U.S. alone? Is it sally who works full time between two jobs, without benefits who needs transportation because her employers don't care how she gets to work, just that she does? Or is it GM?

The goal was to replace the gas tax in such a way that encourages lighter safer more efficient vehicles. Not Hummers. The CT may be best among the truck but it is not a good as a model 3 by a long shot.

This might be a little regressive as a by product. That said, maybe lower income people don't need to own a car or drive at all. Walk, bike, carpool, robo taxi etc. There is a lot of stress with owning a car. I don't want to be mean here but the best mile is the mile not driven.

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[Ogre]

Charge by the kWh burned.

Charge it to all vehicles. If it doesn’t track usage by kWh, interpolate it from mileage.

This way the most efficient vehicles pay the least. Weight gets factored into that.

 

[Crissa]

California's is mostly based upon price, this fee is in addition to the other fee. But it's weird... my motorcycle didn't get the full $100 but it's a bit opaque what parts change by what part. The County and City can add onto tag fees, too.

As pointed out, there is a weight component as well. Heavier vehicles do more wear and tear (and more pedestrian risk) per mile. Weight needs to be part of this.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

California's is mostly based upon price, this fee is in addition to the other fee. But it's weird... my motorcycle didn't get the full $100 but it's a bit opaque what parts change by what part. The County and City can add onto tag fees, too.

As pointed out, there is a weight component as well. Heavier vehicles do more wear and tear (and more pedestrian risk) per mile. Weight needs to be part of this.

-Crissa

I do think price/ weight/ mileage are all great ways to measure/ charge this.

It would be nice if they implemented a carbon tax on newer vehicles. I can sort-of understand not charging it on older ones, but new ICE vehicles should get hit with one based on fuel economy.

 

[Crissa]

Mileage is hard to do without a way to verify the miles. And labor is really expensive here.

-Crissa

 

[Tinker71]

Charge by the kWh burned.

Charge it to all vehicles. If it doesn’t track usage by kWh, interpolate it from mileage.

This way the most efficient vehicles pay the least. Weight gets factored into that.

Residential solar producers might not end up paying their share of road maintenance.

 

[fritter63]

Residential solar producers might not end up paying their share of road maintenance.

Dang, you're already onto me.....

 

[Tinker71]

Mileage is hard to do without a way to verify the miles. And labor is really expensive here.

-Crissa

I got asked to join a pilot program in Utah because of my DIY EV. Unfortunately my 1976 VW doesn't have an OPDII computer sensor plug thing a majig. I had to load an app as well. I can't remember how it reported or paid the state exactly.

I could choose between $.015 per mile or $180 per year. Break even was 12000 miles. I am way below that.

My bus is probably average for an EV @ 3000 lbs so if it was a hummer I would hope those guys would pay $.045 per mile since it is 3x the average weight.

 

[GnarlyDudeLive]

A driver that drives 60,000 miles a year should also pay a lot more than a driver that drives 10,000.

One would think it was that simple (I do myself) but the argument for some folks was that per mile charging hurts the poor folks that cannot live in the city and must drive the long distance to work. The rational is that well off people can afford to live in the city and burden its higher livings costs that the less fortunate people cannot and thus the well off people will have lower miles and more expensive vehicles while the poor will drive farther with less expensive vehicles with worse fuel/millage economy yet have to pay higher "taxes".

Yeah, dumb I know but if you throw enough scenarios and a bunch of "if's", somehow anything no matter how stupid it can make sense to someone somewhere.

 

[Ogre]

Residential solar producers might not end up paying their share of road maintenance.

I was actually thinking it would be based on numbers provided by the car. Right next to your mileage they have kWh consumed.

Personally, if you provide your own juice I think the benefit to society is worth the loss of tax revenue. You’ve likely paid $50k for the privilege of doing it.

 

[Ogre]

One would think it was that simple (I do myself) but the argument for some folks was that per mile charging hurts the poor folks that cannot live in the city and must drive the long distance to work. The rational is that well off people can afford to live in the city and burden its higher livings costs that the less fortunate people cannot and thus the well off people will have lower miles and more expensive vehicles while the poor will drive farther with less expensive vehicles with worse fuel/millage economy yet have to pay higher "taxes".

Yeah, dumb I know but if you throw enough scenarios and a bunch of "if's", somehow anything no matter how stupid it can make sense to someone somewhere.

Almost any tax which is based on “Per XXX Consumed” ends up being regressive (impacting the poor disproportionally). Sales tax similarly impacts the poor more than the wealthy. If you spend 50% of your income on purchasing necessities, you are taxed on that whole amount. Wealthy people can spend money on housing or other durable goods which is taxed less and brings more benefits.

Anyhow… we’re off in the bushes.

 

[JBee]

The more pressing question is what will roads be made of in a EV world?

Bitumen is a fossil by-product of making fuel for ICE. Cement is high energy too.

 

[Tinker71]

The more pressing question is what will roads be made of in a EV world?

Bitumen is a fossil by-product of making fuel for ICE. Cement is high energy too.

Well we could extract oil just for roads but there are amazing materials being engineered lately as well. Amazing times.

 

[happy intruder]

STATE-BY-STATE FEES
Here's a rundown of the states that currently charge electric-vehicle owners added fees, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures:

California: $100 annual fee for a zero-emissions vehicle. Starting in January 2021, annual increases will be indexed to the consumer price index.

Colorado: $50 annual fee for full-electric and plug-in hybrid (PHEV) vehicles.

Georgia: $200 annual license fee for “noncommercial alternative fueled vehicles,” including EVs, but not PHEVs (unless the owner requests an alt-fuel license plate). The fee is automatically adjusted on an annual basis.

Idaho: $140 annual fee for EVs; it’s $75 for PHEVs.

Illinois: $100 annual fee for EVs beginning July 1, 2019.

Indiana: $150 annual fee for EVs; it’s $50 for hybrids and PHEVs.

Michigan: $135 annual fee for non-hybrid electric vehicles weighing less than 8,000 pounds; it’s $235 for those weighing more than 8,000 pounds. The state charges hybrid owners an extra $47.50 and PHEV drivers an added $117.50. These fees are indexed to the state gas tax and would rise incrementally if it is increased.

Minnesota: $75 annual fee on EVs.

Mississippi: $150 fee on EVs and a $75 fee on hybrids. Beginning July 1, 2021, these fees will be indexed to the inflation rate.

Missouri: $75 annual fee on EVs, and $37.50 on PHEVs.

Nebraska: $75 annual fee on alternative-fuel vehicles, including EVs.

North Carolina: $130 on plug-in vehicles, including EVs.

Oregon: $110 annual fee on PHEVs beginning on January 1, 2020.

South Carolina: $120 biennial fee for EVs; it’s a $60 biennial fee for hybrids.

Tennessee: $100 annual fee for EVs.

Utah: $60 annual fee for EVs; it increases to $90 in 2020 and $120 in 2021. Hybrids are assessed a $10 fee that rises to $15 in 2020 and $20 in 2021. It’s currently a $26 annual fee for PHEVs that jumps to $39 in 2020 and $52 in 2021. In 2022 increases will be indexed to the consumer price index.

Virginia: $64 annual license for EVs.

Washington: $150 annual fee for EVs.

Wisconsin: $100 annual fee for EVs.

I dont mind that, but californicate charges me and addition fee for gas tax based on 14k miles a year....that pisses me off because I driver less than 5k on my car and 5k on my wifes car.....I just paid my 2022 registration and total was $876......down from 975 in 2021.....maybe we could take a picture of the ODO with vin number and get a corrected fee

 

[Ogre]

Well we could extract oil just for roads but there are amazing materials being engineered lately as well. Amazing times.

They will pave the roads with the crushed hopes and dreams of ICE industry executives.

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