Major mistake not including charge cables with all new vehicles!

[SwampNut]

Actually it really degrades your point, because it's a silly comparison. This is debate 101; the least powerful or most easily discarded point is the one by which all your claims will be judged.

I didn't know if my car would come with a charger or not. I had no expectation. Why would anyone just assume it's there, AND not even look, ever, and take a road trip and then see? Silly.

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[Ogre]

I just don’t think most people would

I didn't know if my car would come with a charger or not. I had no expectation. Why would anyone just assume it's there, AND not even look, ever, and take a road trip and then see? Silly.

Likewise.

But that brings up a good point. Tesla should make this choice part of the checkout process. When I bought my Model Y I had zero time to prep and might have ended up driving the car home with no charger. It wouldn’t have been a big deal because there are 4 Superchargers on the way, but it would have been a pain to chase down after the fact.

 

[SwampNut]

Lots of smart shopping carts lead you through it:

Which X would you like with your order? None, option 1, option 2, etc

I wish electric bikes didn't force a charger on you. I have better chargers than the provide.

 

[Old Pro]

Arrived with less than 20% and it was the first time ever driving a Tesla. Hadn’t done the WiFi, and had a ton of software updates to due, but was able to plug into 110v until the electrician was able to arrive on Sunday afternoon. Yes…range anxiety is real for the first week of ownership. Just saying I understand the spare tire thing, but no charge cable for a all electric vehicle?

There is a Tesla charging in Santa Ysabel and Scripps Ranch. Not too far from Ramona. Word of advice for anyone taking delivery of a new Tesla, demand at least a 80% charge before signing off!

 

[Crissa]

Actually it really degrades your point, because it's a silly comparison. This is debate 101; the least powerful or most easily discarded point is the one by which all your claims will be judged.

So your entire argument is that it's silly? You're doubling down on the personal incredulity fallacy or the begging the question one? C'mon.

I just provided a list of reasons this was a bad decision. Your counter argument is that it's silly? Are you serious?

I didn't know if my car would come with a charger or not. I had no expectation. Why would anyone just assume it's there, AND not even look, ever, and take a road trip and then see? Silly.

...You just proved my point that people buy the cars without knowing if it"s there, and you say it"s more silly for them to assume it's there than to assume it isn't?

So right now, we have the arguments:
(Add more as needed)

Against including:

1. Most are unused.
2. It simplifies the delivery process.
3. 'Multiple Tesla' owners don't need a second.
4. It's a waste of several pounds.
5. It's a waste of several hundred dollars.
6. It may not make it to the secondary market.
7. You can get on one the secondary market.
8. You can search one out on the Tesla store.

For including:

1. Most aren't unused, only some are never used.
2. New users to the car may or may not be prepared to charge at home.
3. Some users only want a mobile connector.
4. Some users only have access to Level 1 outlets and need the mobile connector.
5. It's a safety device, like a tire or airbag, so going unused is fine.
6. It's only a few pounds, and you can leave it home if you want.
7. It keeps the car going in war or natural disaster.
8. This can and has saved lives.
9. It saves a battery that costs 100x more from critical damage.
10. The secondary market isn't well formed yet - you can't find them at the corner store.
11. While you might be able to find one on eBay for 8x the base wage in California
12. ...most are more than 20x the base wage.
13. The Tesla store is often out of them.
14. The Tesla store doesn't guarantee you will have it in the car when you receive it.

Of course, this isn't exhaustive, but... I think I made my case.

-Crissa

 

[SwampNut]

So your entire argument is that it's silly?

No. I said comparing an airbag to a charger is silly.

 

[Crissa]

No. I said comparing an airbag to a charger is silly.

You're doubling down on the personal incredulity fallacy or the begging the question one? C'mon.

So your entire argument is still that it's silly?

-Crissa

 

[John K]

A charger held more importance with minimal to no charging network.

As the network grows, the need reduces.

Having the cable included falls somewhere between a spare tire and an air bag. (Subjective opinion are in play)

I guarantee, if circumstances require any of the three, spare, charge cable or airbag becomes the most important to your needs.

I personally think removing is too early with charging network. I never expected the cable to be included with the CT unless Tesla changes charging connection.

I mentioned in an earlier post, If Tesla does not reduce the price of the vehicle when removing the cable, Tesla is perceived as Sneaking increased cost to the consumer.

I am ok with no spare, no charge cable too but, I draw the line if they take away my pen.

 

[SwampNut]

So your entire argument is still that it's silly?

-Crissa

No.

 

[Crissa]

No.

Then why do you keep making it? I'm trying to contribute to a productive discussion.

-Crissa

 

[SwampNut]

You rephrased everything I said into one little snippet that was not my entire point, then claimed it was. Dunno what to tell you. There are a lot of reasons not to include it, a lot to include it. In the end it's not a big deal. And claiming that a charger is like an airbag is spurious and makes the entire discussion dumb.

 

[Crissa]

You rephrased everything I said into one little snippet that was not my entire point, then claimed it was. Dunno what to tell you. There are a lot of reasons not to include it, a lot to include it. In the end it's not a big deal. And claiming that a charger is like an airbag is spurious and makes the entire discussion dumb.

If it's just a little snippet, expand! Don't be snippy. It's silly to argue something is silly without giving reasons.

There was a time when airbags weren't standard, but some people thought they were worth making a law for. It wasn't silly to compare them to seatbelts before then, was it?

-Crissa

 

[PK3]

The real issue is what is required and what is not required and who gets to make that decision.

Historically when buying a ICE car, you may or may not get a spare tire, you may or may not get a tire jack. You likely won't get a gas/petrol can. You won't get water proof car mats, you won't get oil, you won't get spare wiper blades, or extra air filters, you simply will need to buy extra accessories or a higher trim that includes them.

The manufacturer usually provides the minimum functioning equipment for the car and allows you to buy optional add-ons or bundles.

Airbags not equivalent as they are legally required and safety related. A mobile connector is an extra, adapters are extras.

Forcing everyone to pay for a mobile connector even when they neither want nor require one is not the best business practice. Why wouldn't they include a home charger with each purchase? It's far more useful for people that can and will use it then a mobile connector for people that can and will use that because it many times faster. However it a lot less useful for people that do not have the ability to use it but they would still need to pay for it is absurd.

Tesla could force everyone to buy Tesla all season mats which protect the cars floor from potential water exposure. Anything could be justified additional expense and make potentially almost 1 million buyers last year pay for stuff they don't want or need.

This was the same thing with the homelink adapter, they used to include homelink with every car but really only people with a garage could take advantage of it so they stopped forcing everyone to pay for it, and made it an addon. People who had garages were mad because it cost them more, people without we glad because they weren't paying for crap they don't use.

I do agree there should be more clear options when buying the car to select optional accessories, but I disagree that everyone should be required to buy extra accessories they may not need to run the car.

 

[John K]

We should give Tesla a choice.

1. Provide the cables

or

2. Deliver CT 6 months earlier than planned

 

[Crissa]

Airbags not equivalent as they are legally required and safety related. A mobile connector is an extra, adapters are extras.

Bullshit.

Airbags weren't always required.

Your argument is therefore that airbags should have been an expensive option, because most people never needed them, and rarely did they save lives... less than one per 600 million miles driven!

That's the argument you're making. Saying 'but it's different' because they're required now, well, there was a time when they weren't. So bullshit.

And my Mazda, a $20k car, came with a jack, and waterproof mats, a spare tire that have never been needed, a can of fix a flat (which has long since expired tho not the tire that has yet to be used), and a spare wiper. A can and gas costs less than an hour of the base wage in California, and that would barely keep me from freezing or dying of exposure in a disaster for a single day, let along multiple days nor would it save my car from immediate damage if I showed up at a gas station Saturday morning and the next fuel truck was Tuesday. Because that won't kill an ICE, but it will kill a battery.

-Crissa

And, PS, I and every person who lives in my town and every town within ten miles has lived through about five weeks worth of 'grid tied chargers unavailable' due to fire evacuation or power grid disruption due to fire related weather within the last three years.

And that's not even counting the earthquake risk which has and will sever grid tied power for weeks when it occurs (about once every 80 years, going by history). Nor the people trapped by mudflows or snow who had to sleep in their cars by storms which also occurred and are difficult to plan for but also occurred in our area in the last five years.

And in any of these situations if the car went to 0%, like I did with my motorcycle yesterday, it would be risking destroying the entire battery if I were to leave it like that overnight. It wouldn't be an emergency where I was scrambling for a limited charging point to lift my battery to a state of charge it won't kill the car if left overnight at. I could just find whatever power was available and plug in.

All my argument here is: This is a useful device, it patches this gap EVs have, and calling something 'silly' only shows your own biases. Just like it's said that people were 'silly' to go without airbags. Or drive trucks capable of climbing walls.

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