👷‍♂️ Tesla plans for 375K Cybertruck annual production (at least) and have first release candidates by late August! [supplier news 6/8/23]

[cvalue13]

I’m all for people getting discount. The part I’m not comfortable with is the dealership determining eligibility versus the government via my tax forms

does this mean the dealer needs my tax forms?

you have the option of doing it as a tax credit at filing

It’s not required that you take the deduction at point of sale

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[Crissa]

I’m all for people getting discount. The part I’m not comfortable with is the dealership determining eligibility versus the government via my tax forms

does this mean the dealer needs my tax forms?

Someone is going to have to see if you're eligible, who care if it's the dealership? The government can't be there at the point of sale.

-Crissa

 

[Robesaw]

That puts my delivery date to '24-'25. I'll be well into my 80s. Iwonder if I will be able to climb into the front seat

At least it’s got air suspension!

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Someone is going to have to see if you're eligible, who care if it's the dealership? The government can't be there at the point of sale.

-Crissa

My nephew bought a Model Y in LA last month. It qualifies for the full $7,500 rebate but none was given at the time that he completed the purchase. Clearly he will have to submit for the rebate on his 2023 tax return. Although I am not surprised that Tesla does it this way, they certainly 'could' have because they have all of the information the government would require 'except' for the AGI from the tax form and my nephew could certainly have provided that information along with all the other information he was required to submit.

 

[cvalue13]

My nephew bought a Model Y in LA last month. It qualifies for the full $7,500 rebate but none was given at the time that he completed the purchase. Clearly he will have to submit for the rebate on his 2023 tax return. Although I am not surprised that Tesla does it this way, they certainly 'could' have because they have all of the information the government would require 'except' for the AGI from the tax form and my nephew could certainly have provided that information along with all the other information he was required to submit.

the point of sale rebate is new with the IRA, and doesn’t become effective until 2024

I looked real quick, and it appears the statutory language leaves the mechanism up to the IRS to flesh out, which I suppose they’ll do via issued guidance prior to 2024

but I know this sort of point of sale rebate has been implemented by the IRS before (if not for vehicles, than for other types of assets), and someone with more experience could probably predict about how the IRS will prescribe the process under the IRA in 2024 for BEV (the IRA also allows point of sale rebates for other types of assets, I’m less familiar with when those kick in though)

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

the point of sale rebate is new with the IRA, and doesn’t become effective until 2024

I looked real quick, and it appears the statutory language leaves the mechanism up to the IRS to flesh out, which I suppose they’ll do via issued guidance prior to 2024

but I know this sort of point of sale rebate has been implemented by the IRS before (if not for vehicles, than for other types of assets), and someone with more experience could probably predict about how the IRS will prescribe the process under the IRA in 2024 for BEV (the IRA also allows point of sale rebates for other types of assets, I’m less familiar with when those kick in though)

That was for dealerships, but with Tesla not having dealerships it may continue to be a deduction taken on the tax form. Or will Tesla now be able to give the rebate at the point of sale also? I was given a CA rebate by Tesla when I bought my Model Y so I know that in some circumstances they can do it.

 

[cvalue13]

That was for dealerships, but with Tesla not having dealerships it may continue to be a deduction taken on the tax form. Or will Tesla now be able to give the rebate at the point of sale also? I was given a CA rebate by Tesla when I bought my Model Y so I know that in some circumstances they can do it.

Oh right!

it’s a great question, and seems the statutory language wouldn’t necessarily include Tesla as a “qualified entity” for the point of sale rebate - but it’ll maybe come down to how the IRS issues rules on the matter.

Or more bizarrely, that it can occur only in those states where Tesla’s are licensed to sell vehicles (like CA) but not in states where they are not (like TX).

Wet finger in the wind, I’d presently say that will be the formal outcome. But practically speaking, I’m not sure it will change much: for the same reasons people have to buy from Tesla out of other states.

Relevant sections of IRA below, all in 30D(g), my emphasis in bold/underline:

I.R.C. § 30D(g)(2)Eligible Entity —
For purposes of this subsection, the term “eligible entity” means, with respect to the vehicle for which the credit is allowed under subsection (a), the dealer which sold such vehicle to the taxpayer …

I.R.C. § 30D(g)(8)Dealer —
For purposes of this subsection, the term “dealer” means a person licensed by a State, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, any other territory or possession of the United States, an Indian tribal government, or any Alaska Native Corporation (as defined in section 3 of the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (43 U.S.C. 1602(m)) to engage in the sale of vehicles.

 

[swengl]

I believe the tax credit is applied when you file your taxes so even people who use TurboTax or tax prep type software will get asked if they bought an EV vehicle and it will compute the rebate based on the car and income parameters and populate your tax return

True statement, that is how I claimed mine on my '15 S85D.

 

[Crissa]

My nephew bought a Model Y in LA last month. It qualifies for the full $7,500 rebate but none was given at the time that he completed the purchase. Clearly he will have to submit for the rebate on his 2023 tax return. Although I am not surprised that Tesla does it this way, they certainly 'could' have because they have all of the information the government would require 'except' for the AGI from the tax form and my nephew could certainly have provided that information along with all the other information he was required to submit.

Right. Rebates at point of sale are next year, once the system is in place.

That was for dealerships, but...

...The rule is point of sale, it doesn't specify how it's being sold.

-Crissa

 

[PointHope]

Giga Shanghai is already popping out 22,000+ units a week. Model Y/3
If Giga Austin does similar expect minimum 10,000+ Cybertruck every week very soon.

So my 600,000 cue may easily come up in 2024.

Very likely, the already proven Shanghai track record will allow Austin to ramp up production far quicker than Shanghai.

 

[HaulingAss]

Right. Rebates at point of sale are next year, once the system is in place.


...The rule is point of sale, it doesn't specify how it's being sold.

-Crissa

The logical way to implement the tax rebate at the time of sale is for the buyer to certify they believe they are eligible, that will trigger the government to send the rebate to the dealer (or the seller in the case of autos sold direct) and then if the buyer files a tax return that not eligible for the credit they already claimed, they must add the $7500 (plus interest) to their tax return liability.

If it works how I think (as described above), you just need to be careful you don't claim eligibility when you are not actually eligible.

 

[Crissa]

The logical way to implement the tax rebate at the time of sale is for the buyer to certify they believe they are eligible, that will trigger the government to send the rebate to the dealer (or the seller in the case of autos sold direct) and then if the buyer files a tax return that not eligible for the credit they already claimed, they must add the $7500 (plus interest) to their tax return liability.

If it works how I think (as described above), you just need to be careful you don't claim eligibility when you are not actually eligible.

That sounds incredibly complex and more difficult than it just being a form you fill out at the dealer or website.

-Crissa

 

[PilotPete]

That sounds incredibly complex and more difficult than it just being a form you fill out at the dealer or website.

-Crissa

Hold up there for a cotton pickin’ minute there ma’am…

Are you saying, you expect the US Government, specifically the IR$, to implement a system that is NOT difficult AND complex? That you expect them to do something that is EASY and EFFICIENT??? Oh, that’s funny, wait, I’m dying here, oh my sides hurt, oh geez, oh this might kill me…

Nothing on you, I’m just looking at who is going to develop and implement the plan... Not necessarily known for simple and easy…

 

[HaulingAss]

That sounds incredibly complex and more difficult than it just being a form you fill out at the dealer or website.

-Crissa

What I described (perhaps not very clearly) is simply a signed form you fill out at your dealer or present to your dealer to get the tax rebate discount at the time of sale. The dealer is reimbursed at a later date by the IRS regardless of whether you are actually eligble. If you were not, the dealer still gets the money because you signed the form stating you were elegible and the IRS will go after you if that was not accurate.

Note: I don't know for a fact this is how it will work, just saying it's the logical way to implement it.

 

[cvalue13]

yes at a very basic level, a taxpayer that receives the rebate "on the hood" in January of 2024, based on an "assumption" of its YE 2024 income levels, will still be required in April of 2025 YE '24 tax filings to report that it received such an "on the hood" rebate, and account for it in its YE 2024 filing. They would owe the rebate back if their income estimate was off, and they made more than the ceiling.

but if those basics are the only mechanic, seems it permits of too many gaming opportunities left open - eg no matter the buyer's actual income expectation, they would be incentivized to "assume" they'll be under the cap, so as to effectively get up to 15months of a $7500 loan (eg if buying in January but not filing returns April the following year). Similarly, nefarious dealerships would be incentivized to do no diligence on a buyer's tax status, because the rebate would incentivize buyers to view the vehicle cost as artificially low, if the dealer effectively has no skin in the vetting.

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