Any 500mi range updates?

[WHIZZARD OF OZ]

The funny thing is, my point was fixated on driving a month without having to charge. After posting that I had calculated 15 extra per week... it should have been per day.

The 60 extra miles, should read 420 or whatever sun it gets. It is significant.

Of Course it should! '420'
'I should've known Better' (Songlines)

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[WHIZZARD OF OZ]

We haven’t heard a peep about that for ages but it can’t hurt to hope. Game changer? That sounds big.

Might end up being that, especially for drivers like me travelling Australia.
For now it's a 'Game Charger'___l'm 'Game'

 

[Crissa]

Something like 55-60% of the US population does not have the option of charging at home. We can't build EVs just for the 40%ers.

65% of Americans live in their own home. All of them can charge at home. Only 34% rent. And some portion of those will still be able to charge at home.

If you're buying a big truck, you most likely can charge at home.

-Crissa

 

[Rozonoe]

Wish it was that simple.

Someday it might be, but it isn't yet.

Battery management is part of the issue. If you only have 350 miles of max range, for example, and you never charge more than 80%, and never go below 10%, it cuts the range quite a bit.

And in my opinion, and my opinion only, EVs have to be designed with the assumption the customer WONT be able to charge at home. Something like 55-60% of the US population does not have the option of charging at home. We can't build EVs just for the 40%ers.

There is +- 80% of EV owners that charge at home!

 

[Rozonoe]

Tesla doesn’t support V2G and has been vocal about not doing it … so far.

I thought Tesla said we would be able with CYBERTRUCK.

 

[intimidator]

There is +- 80% of EV owners that charge at home!

Aahh. You fell into the trap LOL

Of the people in the United States, over 55% live in condos, apartment buildings, townhomes, rented single family homes, etc. They primarily won't be able to charge at home.

As someone that has tried to help get Stations approved/put into neighborhoods for the community to share, there are still a lot of hurdles. Resistance comes from residents, HOAs, Condo associations, and the local municipalities. Even the power company drags their feet.

You may be correct that the majority of people that currently have an EV, charge at home. On the flip side, those that can't charge at home tend to not buy an EV. Studies suggest those people will start taking the plunge once the Fast Charger network is dramatically improved.

Which I hope happens quicker than what is happening now.

 

[Rozonoe]

Aahh. You fell into the trap LOL

Of the people in the United States, over 55% live in condos, apartment buildings, townhomes, rented single family homes, etc. They primarily won't be able to charge at home.

As someone that has tried to help get Stations approved/put into neighborhoods for the community to share, there are still a lot of hurdles. Resistance comes from residents, HOAs, Condo associations, and the local municipalities. Even the power company drags their feet.

You may be correct that the majority of people that currently have an EV, charge at home. On the flip side, those that can't charge at home tend to not buy an EV. Studies suggest those people will start taking the plunge once the Fast Charger network is dramatically improved.

Which I hope happens quicker than what is happening now.

When I quote stuff, it is Canadian statistics, not US.

 

[firsttruck]

Aahh. You fell into the trap LOL

Of the people in the United States, over 55% live in condos, apartment buildings, townhomes, rented single family homes, etc. They primarily won't be able to charge at home.

.....

You should only count the people who own private vehicles not all people in USA.
People who live in apartment buildings and do not own a vehicle do not need EV chargers.

Also rented single family homes probably will not be a problem because even rented single family homes will have high chance of getting EV charger and those that don't can charging EVs since most can be charged overnight even from 110/120V outlet. If rented single family house can support an electric stove or electric water heater or electric dryer or electric heat it can probably support an EV charger.

Here are a couple data points that indicate pickup truck buyers are much more likely to be home owners.

-------------------------------------------

Demographics of Car Buyers
We get asked a lot of questions about demographics of new car buyers. We wanted to do some in-depth data analysis to see who buys new cars in 2022.
Automotive Market Research by Hedges Company
https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2019/01/new-car-buyer-demographics-2019/

.....
New car buyer demographics by home ownership
Most new vehicle buyers own their own home.
New Truck Buyers by Home Ownership: Own home 93%, Don’t own/rent 7%
New SUV Buyers by Home Ownership: Own home 93%, Don’t own/rent 7%
New Sedan Buyers by Home Ownership: Own home 90%, Don’t own/rent 10%

-------------------------------------------

Jeep Demographics: Income, Age, Gender and More Automotive Market Research
We looked at 2007-2018 and 2018-2023 Jeep Wrangler and Wrangler Unlimited (JK, JKU, JL and JLU)
Automotive Market Research by Hedges Company
https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2021/03/jeep-owner-demographics/

.....
Jeep demographics: home ownership and value

What kind of person drives a Jeep Wrangler? A lot of home owners. Most Jeep Wrangler owners own their own home. We found that only 6% of new 2018-2021 JL and JLU owners don’t own their home, while 94% are home owners.

.....
The percentage of Americans who own their home has ranged between about 64% to 67% in recent years, so Wrangler owners are significantly higher than the US average.

When it comes to 2007-2018 JK and JKU owners, home ownership drops slightly to 85% own a home, 15% do not.

-------------------------------------------

An Analysis of Household Vehicle Ownership and Utilization Patterns in the United States Using the 2001 National Household Travel Survey
By Abdul Rawoof Pinjari University of South Florida
2004
https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2197&context=etd

The purpose of the NHTS interviews, conducted from April 2001 through May 2002, is to take an inventory of the daily and long-distance travel (over 50 miles from home) in the United States. There are approximately a total of 66,000 households in the final 2001 NHTS dataset.


Table 4.1 Household Characteristics of the 2001 NHTS Data
.....
63.7% Detached single house
4.7% Duplex
5.7% Mobile Home/Trailer
22% Apartment/Condo
3.6% Row House/Town House


-------------------------------------------

SUV and Pickup Purchases Soar — But Who’s Buying?
By Kea Wilson Apr 21, 2021
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2021/04/21/suv-and-pickup-purchases-soar-but-whos-buying/

.....
The median household income of the average truck driver is $108,334 a year


-------------------------------------------

Millennials Have Taken Over the Truck Market.
While you might assume that the majority of truck owners are Baby Boomers, the truth is that Millennials have overtaken both Baby Boomers and Generation Xers in truck ownership.
by Ricky Ochs | March 2, 2022
https://www.autoinfluence.com/millennials-have-taken-over-the-truck-market/

-------------------------------------------

How Many Millennials Own Homes? (2022 Update)
By Pete Ortiz Last updated: Nov 09 2022
https://housegrail.com/how-many-millennials-own-homes/

.....
As of the most recent census compiled in 2020, millennials are counted as 72.1 million Americans. That number surpasses the number of Baby Boomers making millennials the generation with the largest number of people in the United States. In fact, there are an estimated 1.8 billion millennials worldwide.

For a long time, millennial home ownership lagged behind that of their elders. In some markets, the gap was extremely wide and highly concerning. However, a recent spate of buying has started to close the gap between millennials and other generations in terms of home ownership.

The latest surveys have millennial home ownership at 47.9%. That means the number of millennials that own their own home is estimated to be 34.5 million. That number is projected to rise even further in the coming years.

.....
All of the trends are pointing to a further increase in millennial home buying in both the short term and the long term. As millennials continue to get established in their careers and age into more financially stable conditions the rate of home ownership should continue to rise. That is going to continue to drive demand for houses in markets with high populations of millennials.


-------------------------------------------

King of the Road: Breaking Down the Popularity of Pickup Trucks
August 30, 2019 by Marty Miller
https://www.experian.com/blogs/insights/2019/08/king-road-breaking-popularity-pickup-trucks/
.....
Pickups boast strong popularity nationwide – they are the most common vehicles in operation (VIO) at 20% share today and hold 16.5% of new vehicle registrations in the market as of the first quarter of 2019, third behind cross-overs (CUVs) and sedans. Pickup owner demographics show that they are a common choice across various household value levels, which could be due to their relatively inexpensive cost compared to newer, luxury CUVs on the market. In order, the top household values for the buyers of new pickups across the U.S. are:
1. $250k – $350k
2. $200k – $250k
3. $160k – $200k
4. $450k – $750k


-------------------------------------------

44 Revealing Pickup Truck Owner Demographics for 2023
https://www.americantrucks.com/pickup-truck-owner-demographics.html

.....
Households with pickup trucks have a 53% higher median income than the average U.S. household

-------------------------------------------

How Much Americans Love Their Pickup Trucks: Survey We are currently looking for experienced automotive journalists and editors to join our team. Make $60k-$80k per year doing what you love.
by Sam McEachern
Jun 22, 2020
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/06/how-much-americans-love-their-pickup-trucks-survey/

.....
The vast majority of survey participants (94%) said they have used their truck to help others, while a whopping 34% say they use it to help others on a weekly basis.

.....
Ford’s survey provided some valuable insight into the demand and excitement over battery-electric trucks, as well. Nationwide, 40% of pickup owners are excited about the prospect of an electric truck, but that figure jumps to 62% in eco-conscious California. Many also said they would only buy an electric truck if it did not force them to compromise on capability and functionality. They also want to ensure there are enough places to charge the vehicle and would be more attracted to it if it offered lower maintenance costs.

-------------------------------------------

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Aahh. You fell into the trap LOL

Of the people in the United States, over 55% live in condos, apartment buildings, townhomes, rented single family homes, etc. They primarily won't be able to charge at home.

As someone that has tried to help get Stations approved/put into neighborhoods for the community to share, there are still a lot of hurdles. Resistance comes from residents, HOAs, Condo associations, and the local municipalities. Even the power company drags their feet.

You may be correct that the majority of people that currently have an EV, charge at home. On the flip side, those that can't charge at home tend to not buy an EV. Studies suggest those people will start taking the plunge once the Fast Charger network is dramatically improved.

Which I hope happens quicker than what is happening now.

It’s not just lack of access to a charger it is also security. If someone lives in a townhouse, duplex, or apartment ‘community’ then it might be possible to install chargers that are secure but controlling who is using the chargers and who is paying for the electricity might be problematic. For people living in apartment buildings with dedicated parking it would be a similar problem. For people living in buildings without dedicated parking there is no solution except public chargers.

 

[intimidator]

It’s not just lack of access to a charger it is also security. If someone lives in a townhouse, duplex, or apartment ‘community’ then it might be possible to install chargers that are secure but controlling who is using the chargers and who is paying for the electricity might be problematic. For people living in apartment buildings with dedicated parking it would be a similar problem. For people living in buildings without dedicated parking there is no solution except public chargers.

Thank you.

One neighborhood I volunteered to help get Chargers installed created a big kafooey when during the process (over a year and a half) owners of these townhomes (about 240 of them) found out they did not actually own their own parking spaces. They are not deeded spaces. The Condo Association owned the spaces, and have "assigned" or "allowed" the owners to use the parking spaces.

So the Condo Association Board decided to not let anyone install chargers. Which is the Association's right, since they do own and control those common areas.

In addition, the Board ruled that there would be no "community" chargers allowed, for the time being.

 

[Crissa]

Aahh. You fell into the trap LOL

Of the people in the United States, over 55% live in condos, apartment buildings, townhomes, rented single family homes, etc. They primarily won't be able to charge at home.

If you own your building, you can charge your EV.

No one can stop you. Not legally.

A condo or home owners' association that blocks EV charging is denying the owners' rightful use of the property. They won't win in court, and in several states, like California, they are explicitly enjoined by law to make allowances for charging.

-Crissa

 

[intimidator]

If you own your building, you can charge your EV.

No one can stop you. Not legally.

-Crissa

Yes they can.
And they do.

There are all kinds of deed restrictions, building codes, Home Owner Associations rules, Condominium Association regs and local ordinances they can derail you.

YES, if you own your own dwelling, and it has a garage, and you put the charger inside the garage, you should be good (assuming you meet the necessary building code requirements).

A gentlemen in the last couple of weeks, who owns his own home (you can find him on Youtube), but is subject to a Home Owners Association, has been told the Rivian he took possession of just 2 weeks ago can not be parked in his own driveway! The HOA has a rule that you can not park a "truck" in your own driveway or in front of your house overnight. It is in the HOA docs the man signed when he bought the house many years ago. HOAs tell you what color you can paint your own mailbox.

 

[Crissa]

Yes they can.
And they do.

There are all kinds of deed restrictions, building codes, Home Owner Associations rules, Condominium Association regs and local ordinances they can derail you.

YES, if you own your own dwelling, and it has a garage, and you put the charger inside the garage, you should be good (assuming you meet the necessary building code requirements).

A gentlemen in the last couple of weeks, who owns his own home (you can find him on Youtube), but is subject to a Home Owners Association, has been told the Rivian he took possession of just 2 weeks ago can not be parked in his own driveway! The HOA has a rule that you can not park a "truck" in your own driveway or in front of your house overnight. It is in the HOA docs the man signed when he bought the house many years ago. HOAs tell you what color you can paint your own mailbox.

No.

They can not. Those rules don't stand legally. As I pointed out, they fail in the courts as being overly restrictive, depriving of property... and many states are overruling them directly. In California, rental owners and condo associations are legally required to facilitate EV charging, while HOAs are not allowed to block them.

I don't understand, you can search the relevant law yourself; if you can afford a big-ass truck, you can afford to know the law.

-Crissa

 

[ED_SFO]

65% of Americans live in their own home. All of them can charge at home. Only 34% rent. And some portion of those will still be able to charge at home.

If you're buying a big truck, you most likely can charge at home.

-Crissa

I would like to see a poll how many full size trucks that are 220" or longer are parked inside a garage on the regular. I don't think much in most of America because theres no need. Ev trucks are very scares. As a ev truck buyer you would prob need to own your own home and plan for an outside capable charging unit. But if u don't own your own home you better live near a charger of some sort.

 

[intimidator]

No.

They can not. Those rules don't stand legally. As I pointed out, they fail in the courts as being overly restrictive, depriving of property... and many states are overruling them directly. In California, rental owners and condo associations are legally required to facilitate EV charging, while HOAs are not allowed to block them.

I don't understand, you can search the relevant law yourself; if you can afford a big-ass truck, you can afford to know the law.

-Crissa

Crissa,

Hate to disappoint you, but you are wrong - from a practical standpoint. It is not that simple when you are dealing with volunteer Condo and HOA board members.

I have actual experience with both Condo Associations and HOAs in Virginia. We tried the "legally required" card but because the Associations own the common areas, in one case they were able to block using parking spaces for charging. In another case they were able to block the running/trenching of the necessary electrical power feeds from the PowerCompany.

So, in the practical world, EVENTUALLY individuals will wear down HOAs and Condo board, but it is going to take years. And in many cases it will take lawsuits. A lot of lawsuits, sadly. And you have to have residents willing to take on that fight, and fund the legal expenses to get it started.

Of course, California is separate case onto itself. They are the leaders in changing the laws, and greasing the wheels for the EV transition.

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