Beast better than AWD, change my mind

[Cyber Man]

lol! I don’t think the delay is because they are not able to write code to lock the differentials. My guess is that safety checks with steer by wire precedes everything, but I shouldn’t speculate about things that I’m not involved with. So, IDK!

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[M0unt41nm4n]

4. If you are traveling remote, off road light bar might be a huge help. Apparently it can throw light as far as five football fields (based on Sandy's interview with folks who built CT). I'm curious to know the range drop. The drag might take a hit because of this accessory. Of course, AWD CTs can get this installed after market.

Oh this one alone is worth the $20k extra... for the moron coming your direction and thinks you have your brights on but you don't so they continually hold their brights on you... or the person who is in the left lane (fast lane) doing 10 under the speed limit. BLAST EM!!!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[AnthonyJ]

Tesla has a very long history of delivering unfinished product to the customer, with no ETA. It’s a horrible practice and does not leave a good impression

 

[HaulingAss]

What are you babbling about? Be specific.

 

[HaulingAss]

Tesla has a very long history of delivering unfinished product to the customer, with no ETA. It’s a horrible practice and does not leave a good impression

I've always taken special pleasure in my car improving after I take delivery.

I think Tesla has a few hidden surprises in store for Cybertruck owners going forward, in addition to the ones we already know are coming!

 

[HaulingAss]

People that can afford a 20k upgrade don’t visit 6 Flags . Thats for you poor Minnesota folk and your knock off AWD’s.

That's funny!

That said, these days I can afford any car I want, including exotic supercars, and I chose the AWD over the Beast, in part because I think in most ways it's a better truck. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate silly speed more than your average motorist, from age 15, long before I could afford fast cars, I was into fast street bikes. And when it came time to buy my first electric car, I paid the early adopter price for one of the first Performance Model 3s (which I still have and love). I drive relatively serenely most of the time but I never tire of opening her up, when the situation allows. I love pushing the limits when I can so without being a bad brand ambassador.

That said, motorcycles or auto, I was always into cornering at the limits more than straight-line acceleration. Combining the two, carrying maximum speed through the apex and leaving the corner with maximum drive was always a highlight, top speed, not so much, because we are talking public roads here, no matter how remote and little travelled.

Back to Cybertruck: I want one of each (and I wouldn't mind having a RWD too, just to learn and become familiar with the differences). Probably the most obvious reason I configured the Dual Motor in December when my number came up was that Elon said the Beast would be mostly late 2024. So I don't want to detract from the awesomeness of the Beast. But let's put some things into perspective:

1) As sporty as the Cybertruck is (for a truck), it's still a truck. Even though I have a thing for performance (I didn't chose the alias "HaulingAss" for nothing), the Dual Motor still hauls ass, at least for a truck (or any "normal" car). I don't find myself wishing for more, even though it's slower than my Performance Model 3. When on mountain fire/forest roads, it has far more power than the driving surface can handle. On pavement, those are some pretty big tires, with big prices and big carbon footprints to be wearing out quickly, just for some kicks and jollies. For sensible reasons, it's just not as much fun to bring the tires to the limits of traction as in my Performance Model 3 (or even our two RWD Model 3's). I like to maximize fun while minimizing impact and expense.

2) The Beast is still on my want list but it weighs 230 lbs. more and is slightly less efficient. That might not sound like much on such a big vehicle, but it is a significant difference, especially on soft surfaces without a clear bottom, like sand, mud or a wet lawn you want to minimize damage to. Lighter is always slightly better, including less treadwear. 20 more miles of range is slightly better, if you need it.

3) RWD under cruise. The Dual Motor has the most efficient motor on the rear axle and thus that is the default drive motor under light to moderate torque situations. I like that even though there are also advantages, that I won't go into, of having the default drive wheels in the front. It doesn't matter much either way, but I think I prefer the rear.

4) The biggest advantage the Beast has, IMO, is the potential of torque vectoring with the rear axle (without using the brakes). In my mind, this advantage outweighs even the beastly acceleration advantage. While the Dual Motor, when the locking differentials are finally enabled, will have similar climbing ability, the Beast could still outperform it slightly, if the torque vectoring is well dialed, by not mindlessly spinning the most lightly loaded tire in tricky situations. And the Beast should have better acceleration and stability on loose surfaces, with torque vectoring under high power accelerations.

Botton line, for high-powered performance driving the Beast should be far superior due to it's higher power output and the ability to torque vector the rear wheels. But my slight preference for the Dual Motor is looking at it more as a practical truck, not an all-out driving machine. Assuming the locking differentials are well-executed, I think the slightly lighter, slightly more efficient Dual Motor wins out, at least from a practical perspective. And that's pretty much true even if I ignore the higher purchase price of the Beast.

All that said, it's a close race, it depends upon what characteristics you value the most, and the real-world differences between the two variants are certainly tiny, when compared to the difference between a Cybertruck and a Ford Lightning or a Cybertruck and the elusive GMC Sierra or Hummer EV. None of which are not even in the same engineering realm, they are in completely different ballparks, compared to either version of the Cybertruck.

Having put the Dual Motor Cybertruck through it's paces over the last two weeks, I have to say, Tesla has a real winner here. From here on out, the only big mystery is how much will it cost Tesla to produce at volume, because that is ultimately what will determine its marketability. You can have the best truck in the world, but if not many can afford it, it will never be a huge seller. My best guess is that Tesla will be able to make and sell it at high volume prices as they continue to refine production processes. It will never be dirt cheap like they originally envisioned, but it will come down in cost and be superior enough in terms of durability, longevity and functionality to sell well, even it does cost more than cheap, flexy, body-on-frame mild steel construction.

 

[Jabman]

That's funny!

That said, these days I can afford any car I want, including exotic supercars, and I chose the AWD over the Beast, in part because I think in most ways it's a better truck. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate silly speed more than your average motorist, from age 15, long before I could afford fast cars, I was into fast street bikes. And when it came time to buy my first electric car, I paid the early adopter price for one of the first Performance Model 3s (which I still have and love). I drive relatively serenely most of the time but I never tire of opening her up, when the situation allows. I love pushing the limits when I can so without being a bad brand ambassador.

That said, motorcycles or auto, I was always into cornering at the limits more than straight-line acceleration. Combining the two, carrying maximum speed through the apex and leaving the corner with maximum drive was always a highlight, top speed, not so much, because we are talking public roads here, no matter how remote and little travelled.

Back to Cybertruck: I want one of each (and I wouldn't mind having a RWD too, just to learn and become familiar with the differences). Probably the most obvious reason I configured the Dual Motor in December when my number came up was that Elon said the Beast would be mostly late 2024. So I don't want to detract from the awesomeness of the Beast. But let's put some things into perspective:

1) As sporty as the Cybertruck is (for a truck), it's still a truck. Even though I have a thing for performance (I didn't chose the alias "HaulingAss" for nothing), the Dual Motor still hauls ass, at least for a truck (or any "normal" car). I don't find myself wishing for more, even though it's slower than my Performance Model 3. When on mountain fire/forest roads, it has far more power than the driving surface can handle. On pavement, those are some pretty big tires, with big prices and big carbon footprints to be wearing out quickly, just for some kicks and jollies. For sensible reasons, it's just not as much fun to bring the tires to the limits of traction as in my Performance Model 3 (or even our two RWD Model 3's). I like to maximize fun while minimizing impact and expense.

2) The Beast is still on my want list but it weighs 230 lbs. more and is slightly less efficient. That might not sound like much on such a big vehicle, but it is a significant difference, especially on soft surfaces without a clear bottom, like sand, mud or a wet lawn you want to minimize damage to. Lighter is always slightly better, including less treadwear. 20 more miles of range is slightly better, if you need it.

3) RWD under cruise. The Dual Motor has the most efficient motor on the rear axle and thus that is the default drive motor under light to moderate torque situations. I like that even though there are also advantages, that I won't go into, of having the default drive wheels in the front. It doesn't matter much either way, but I think I prefer the rear.

4) The biggest advantage the Beast has, IMO, is the potential of torque vectoring with the rear axle (without using the brakes). In my mind, this advantage outweighs even the beastly acceleration advantage. While the Dual Motor, when the locking differentials are finally enabled, will have similar climbing ability, the Beast could still outperform it slightly, if the torque vectoring is well dialed, by not mindlessly spinning the most lightly loaded tire in tricky situations. And the Beast should have better acceleration and stability on loose surfaces, with torque vectoring under high power accelerations.

Botton line, for high-powered performance driving the Beast should be far superior due to it's higher power output and the ability to torque vector the rear wheels. But my slight preference for the Dual Motor is looking at it more as a practical truck, not an all-out driving machine. Assuming the locking differentials are well-executed, I think the slightly lighter, slightly more efficient Dual Motor wins out, at least from a practical perspective. And that's pretty much true even if I ignore the higher purchase price of the Beast.

All that said, it's a close race, it depends upon what characteristics you value the most, and the real-world differences between the two variants are certainly tiny, when compared to the difference between a Cybertruck and a Ford Lightning or a Cybertruck and the elusive GMC Sierra or Hummer EV. None of which are not even in the same engineering realm, they are in completely different ballparks, compared to either version of the Cybertruck.

Having put the Dual Motor Cybertruck through it's paces over the last two weeks, I have to say, Tesla has a real winner here. From here on out, the only big mystery is how much will it cost Tesla to produce at volume, because that is ultimately what will determine its marketability. You can have the best truck in the world, but if not many can afford it, it will never be a huge seller. My best guess is that Tesla will be able to make and sell it at high volume prices as they continue to refine production processes. It will never be dirt cheap like they originally envisioned, but it will come down in cost and be superior enough in terms of durability, longevity and functionality to sell well, even it does cost more than cheap, flexy, body-on-frame mild steel construction.

Well said. It’s funny, I started this thread back in January and ended up with the AWD. Mostly for the reasons you so eloquently established. Not for the money, but for the practicality and everyday use case. This will be my commuting car and I’m not launching this thing on my way to work. More range and efficiency won me over the moments of glee once a month. Plus, there’s always the option years from now to upgrade to the beast if I so choose. Everyone’s decision is their own to make. It was because of users on this forum that I was able to educate myself and make the most informed decision. Invaluable resource I must say. Plus, the ability to commiserate with fellow CT adicts.

 

[SentinelOne]

That's funny!

That said, these days I can afford any car I want, including exotic supercars, and I chose the AWD over the Beast, in part because I think in most ways it's a better truck. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate silly speed more than your average motorist, from age 15, long before I could afford fast cars, I was into fast street bikes. And when it came time to buy my first electric car, I paid the early adopter price for one of the first Performance Model 3s (which I still have and love). I drive relatively serenely most of the time but I never tire of opening her up, when the situation allows. I love pushing the limits when I can so without being a bad brand ambassador.

That said, motorcycles or auto, I was always into cornering at the limits more than straight-line acceleration. Combining the two, carrying maximum speed through the apex and leaving the corner with maximum drive was always a highlight, top speed, not so much, because we are talking public roads here, no matter how remote and little travelled.

Back to Cybertruck: I want one of each (and I wouldn't mind having a RWD too, just to learn and become familiar with the differences). Probably the most obvious reason I configured the Dual Motor in December when my number came up was that Elon said the Beast would be mostly late 2024. So I don't want to detract from the awesomeness of the Beast. But let's put some things into perspective:

1) As sporty as the Cybertruck is (for a truck), it's still a truck. Even though I have a thing for performance (I didn't chose the alias "HaulingAss" for nothing), the Dual Motor still hauls ass, at least for a truck (or any "normal" car). I don't find myself wishing for more, even though it's slower than my Performance Model 3. When on mountain fire/forest roads, it has far more power than the driving surface can handle. On pavement, those are some pretty big tires, with big prices and big carbon footprints to be wearing out quickly, just for some kicks and jollies. For sensible reasons, it's just not as much fun to bring the tires to the limits of traction as in my Performance Model 3 (or even our two RWD Model 3's). I like to maximize fun while minimizing impact and expense.

2) The Beast is still on my want list but it weighs 230 lbs. more and is slightly less efficient. That might not sound like much on such a big vehicle, but it is a significant difference, especially on soft surfaces without a clear bottom, like sand, mud or a wet lawn you want to minimize damage to. Lighter is always slightly better, including less treadwear. 20 more miles of range is slightly better, if you need it.

3) RWD under cruise. The Dual Motor has the most efficient motor on the rear axle and thus that is the default drive motor under light to moderate torque situations. I like that even though there are also advantages, that I won't go into, of having the default drive wheels in the front. It doesn't matter much either way, but I think I prefer the rear.

4) The biggest advantage the Beast has, IMO, is the potential of torque vectoring with the rear axle (without using the brakes). In my mind, this advantage outweighs even the beastly acceleration advantage. While the Dual Motor, when the locking differentials are finally enabled, will have similar climbing ability, the Beast could still outperform it slightly, if the torque vectoring is well dialed, by not mindlessly spinning the most lightly loaded tire in tricky situations. And the Beast should have better acceleration and stability on loose surfaces, with torque vectoring under high power accelerations.

Botton line, for high-powered performance driving the Beast should be far superior due to it's higher power output and the ability to torque vector the rear wheels. But my slight preference for the Dual Motor is looking at it more as a practical truck, not an all-out driving machine. Assuming the locking differentials are well-executed, I think the slightly lighter, slightly more efficient Dual Motor wins out, at least from a practical perspective. And that's pretty much true even if I ignore the higher purchase price of the Beast.

All that said, it's a close race, it depends upon what characteristics you value the most, and the real-world differences between the two variants are certainly tiny, when compared to the difference between a Cybertruck and a Ford Lightning or a Cybertruck and the elusive GMC Sierra or Hummer EV. None of which are not even in the same engineering realm, they are in completely different ballparks, compared to either version of the Cybertruck.

Having put the Dual Motor Cybertruck through it's paces over the last two weeks, I have to say, Tesla has a real winner here. From here on out, the only big mystery is how much will it cost Tesla to produce at volume, because that is ultimately what will determine its marketability. You can have the best truck in the world, but if not many can afford it, it will never be a huge seller. My best guess is that Tesla will be able to make and sell it at high volume prices as they continue to refine production processes. It will never be dirt cheap like they originally envisioned, but it will come down in cost and be superior enough in terms of durability, longevity and functionality to sell well, even it does cost more than cheap, flexy, body-on-frame mild steel construction.

Awesome write up! I'm getting the beast but as an owner of an M3P with MPP Coil Overs and several Sport Bikes I absolutely get some of your points (why I'll keep M3P & Bikes)! Curious on you thoughts on advantages of the Beast Front Motor being the primary? Given im in CO, thinking that's a benefit as it's front wheel drive first in the snow and rears only needed when I cant manage the throttle....but haven't given much though other than that!

 

[cybrtrk88]

Well said. It’s funny, I started this thread back in January and ended up with the AWD. Mostly for the reasons you so eloquently established. Not for the money, but for the practicality and everyday use case. This will be my commuting car and I’m not launching this thing on my way to work. More range and efficiency won me over the moments of glee once a month. Plus, there’s always the option years from now to upgrade to the beast if I so choose. Everyone’s decision is their own to make. It was because of users on this forum that I was able to educate myself and make the most informed decision. Invaluable resource I must say. Plus, the ability to commiserate with fellow CT adicts.

On my way to pick up my AWD now, hope shes good to me!

 

[Jabman]

On my way to pick up my AWD now, hope shes good to me!

Congrats!!

 

[HaulingAss]

Curious on you thoughts on advantages of the Beast Front Motor being the primary? Given im in CO, thinking that's a benefit as it's front wheel drive first in the snow and rears only needed when I cant manage the throttle....but haven't given much though other than that!

Whether default FWD or RWD (in this application) is better in the snow or ICE really depends upon the subtleties of the implementation of the traction and stability software. With software that is refined enough, it really shouldn't matter which is the default drive because, when it's slippery enough to matter, it will detect that and do the right thing. But it's never that simple.

I'm eventually super impressed with the way Tesla tunes their traction and stability controls, but sometimes it takes a year or two for the full refinement to happen. My 2018 Performance Model 3 got significantly better around the time they added Track Mode, even when not in Track Mode.

The bottom line is that slippage needs to happen before the electronic controls can react and if that slippage happens at the front wheels first, the vehicle will maintain directional stability (yaw) easier. Maybe slightly less likely to end up in the ditch if a slippery patch surprises both you and the traction systems, at least if the loss of traction happens under light acceleration.

I think having the initial regen on the rear (Dual Motor) is probably better because loss of traction can happen under regen too, not just throttle application. A sophisticated enough traction and stability system would make most of this moot. This is why I want one of each (Beast and DM), so I can compare the subtleties of both firsthand! Both off-road and on snow and ice. It will even likely change over time as both versions require mostly separate development of the traction and stability systems, even though it will be by the same team.

 

[Cyber Man]

That's funny!

That said, these days I can afford any car I want, including exotic supercars, and I chose the AWD over the Beast, in part because I think in most ways it's a better truck. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate silly speed more than your average motorist, from age 15, long before I could afford fast cars, I was into fast street bikes. And when it came time to buy my first electric car, I paid the early adopter price for one of the first Performance Model 3s (which I still have and love). I drive relatively serenely most of the time but I never tire of opening her up, when the situation allows. I love pushing the limits when I can so without being a bad brand ambassador.

That said, motorcycles or auto, I was always into cornering at the limits more than straight-line acceleration. Combining the two, carrying maximum speed through the apex and leaving the corner with maximum drive was always a highlight, top speed, not so much, because we are talking public roads here, no matter how remote and little travelled.

Back to Cybertruck: I want one of each (and I wouldn't mind having a RWD too, just to learn and become familiar with the differences). Probably the most obvious reason I configured the Dual Motor in December when my number came up was that Elon said the Beast would be mostly late 2024. So I don't want to detract from the awesomeness of the Beast. But let's put some things into perspective:

1) As sporty as the Cybertruck is (for a truck), it's still a truck. Even though I have a thing for performance (I didn't chose the alias "HaulingAss" for nothing), the Dual Motor still hauls ass, at least for a truck (or any "normal" car). I don't find myself wishing for more, even though it's slower than my Performance Model 3. When on mountain fire/forest roads, it has far more power than the driving surface can handle. On pavement, those are some pretty big tires, with big prices and big carbon footprints to be wearing out quickly, just for some kicks and jollies. For sensible reasons, it's just not as much fun to bring the tires to the limits of traction as in my Performance Model 3 (or even our two RWD Model 3's). I like to maximize fun while minimizing impact and expense.

2) The Beast is still on my want list but it weighs 230 lbs. more and is slightly less efficient. That might not sound like much on such a big vehicle, but it is a significant difference, especially on soft surfaces without a clear bottom, like sand, mud or a wet lawn you want to minimize damage to. Lighter is always slightly better, including less treadwear. 20 more miles of range is slightly better, if you need it.

3) RWD under cruise. The Dual Motor has the most efficient motor on the rear axle and thus that is the default drive motor under light to moderate torque situations. I like that even though there are also advantages, that I won't go into, of having the default drive wheels in the front. It doesn't matter much either way, but I think I prefer the rear.

4) The biggest advantage the Beast has, IMO, is the potential of torque vectoring with the rear axle (without using the brakes). In my mind, this advantage outweighs even the beastly acceleration advantage. While the Dual Motor, when the locking differentials are finally enabled, will have similar climbing ability, the Beast could still outperform it slightly, if the torque vectoring is well dialed, by not mindlessly spinning the most lightly loaded tire in tricky situations. And the Beast should have better acceleration and stability on loose surfaces, with torque vectoring under high power accelerations.

Botton line, for high-powered performance driving the Beast should be far superior due to it's higher power output and the ability to torque vector the rear wheels. But my slight preference for the Dual Motor is looking at it more as a practical truck, not an all-out driving machine. Assuming the locking differentials are well-executed, I think the slightly lighter, slightly more efficient Dual Motor wins out, at least from a practical perspective. And that's pretty much true even if I ignore the higher purchase price of the Beast.

All that said, it's a close race, it depends upon what characteristics you value the most, and the real-world differences between the two variants are certainly tiny, when compared to the difference between a Cybertruck and a Ford Lightning or a Cybertruck and the elusive GMC Sierra or Hummer EV. None of which are not even in the same engineering realm, they are in completely different ballparks, compared to either version of the Cybertruck.

Having put the Dual Motor Cybertruck through it's paces over the last two weeks, I have to say, Tesla has a real winner here. From here on out, the only big mystery is how much will it cost Tesla to produce at volume, because that is ultimately what will determine its marketability. You can have the best truck in the world, but if not many can afford it, it will never be a huge seller. My best guess is that Tesla will be able to make and sell it at high volume prices as they continue to refine production processes. It will never be dirt cheap like they originally envisioned, but it will come down in cost and be superior enough in terms of durability, longevity and functionality to sell well, even it does cost more than cheap, flexy, body-on-frame mild steel construction.

Very good analysis! I think timing is also another thing. If FS wasn’t there and both AWD and Beasts were readily available to order, some folks might have switched to Beast. It would have been the same cost as AWD FS $100K that majority are paying now, plus $7K FSD.

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