Charging rate appears to be below 1C

[AWDMK4]

I welcome you to try selling a "breakthrough" EV with a marketing statement "our vehicle fully charges in just over an hour" and see how that is taken by the customers. Obviously that wouldn't go well, which is why in this case they're bending into a pretzel with the statements like "it's only 5 minutes to charge for additional 2 hours of driving." But hey, just my opinion

And yet you bought the Cybertruck. Did Tesla promise 1C, by definition 0-100% in 1 hour? Serious question.... what am I missing?

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[cybercricket]

All I know is my battery has always outlasted my bladder, and I've never charged for an hour.

Try hooking up a trailer, your bladder will own the battery.

 

[cybercricket]

And yet you bought the Cybertruck. Did Tesla promise 1C, by definition 0-100% in 1 hour? Serious question.... what am I missing?

There was always that pretzel talk about how fast their stuff charges, and that you can make quick top offs to charge at peak rates, and that charging to 100% is slower, etc, etc... Never once they said that in reality it would take you an hour or more if you need 100%. And no, my decision to buy it wasn't based on the charging promises. I am just bringing this up now since it's rather surprising and it's good if people know about it.

 

[Cyberkingz]

I welcome you to try selling a "breakthrough" EV with a marketing statement "our vehicle fully charges in just over an hour" and see how that is taken by the customers. Obviously that wouldn't go well, which is why in this case they're bending into a pretzel with the statements like "it's only 5 minutes to charge for additional 2 hours of driving." But hey, just my opinion

I think the misunderstanding is that when you hear 1C charging rate you're thinking 0-100% in 1 hour. However, c-rates are talked about in relation to the bulk phase of the charge. The current needs to taper down for longevity, hence why start rates differ but the remainder of the charge cycle is almost identical regardless of v2/v3/v4 chargers.

So this thread is more of "why isn't my EV the fastest charging one on the market" convo. The answer to that is more nuanced than just making the charge curve more aggressive. 4860 is a great cell, better than most, it could be charged wayyy faster, no doubt. The competitor cells are not some kind of breakthrough cell technology that allows them to charge more aggressive, but the OE charges them more aggressive anyway to get conversations exactly like this going. I prefer longevity and safety. DC charging is nothing new, its about 100 years old now.

 

[cybercricket]

I think the misunderstanding is that when you hear 1C charging rate you're thinking 0-100% in 1 hour. However, c-rates are talked about in relation to the bulk phase of the charge. The current needs to taper down for longevity, hence why start rates differ but the remainder of the charge cycle is almost identical regardless of v2/v3/v4 chargers.

The traditional approach is to use CC/CV at 1C, and the current tapers down naturally as the voltage increases. Nothing to do with "for longevity". And sure, probably not exactly 1 hour, but it's not super important. Then you have these innovative approaches of hammering the cells with currents significantly higher than 1C at lower SoCs to accelerate charging without damaging the cells, but the marketing promise and the end result is where the body is buried.

 

[AWDMK4]

There was always that pretzel talk about how fast their stuff charges, and that you can make quick top offs to charge at peak rates, and that charging to 100% is slower, etc, etc... Never once they said that in reality it would take you an hour or more if you need 100%. And no, my decision to buy it wasn't based on the charging promises. I am just bringing this up now since it's rather surprising and it's good if people know about it.

Thanks for explaining, I thought I may have missed a promise by Tesla that the CT would charge from empty to 100% in an hour or less. I'd say some people may be surprised, but there are probably just as many owners that did their homework first and are not.

Do we all wish it charged faster, sure. Do I regret ordering the CT because it doesn't? Absolutely not.


Now, which of the EV trucks charge from 0-100% in an hour (1C)? The GM triplets, Rivian R1T, or Ford Lighting? I couldn't tell you, but I'd guess none.

In an overall road trip exercise, the CT holds it's own. In Kyle's coast to coast (FL to CA) test with all 4 trucks, the CT came in 2nd place, just 5 minutes behind the Silverado. Keep in mind this was with a CB and an early test before Tesla unlocked faster charging. Would it have changed the outcome, probably not much.

 

[Cyberkingz]

The traditional approach is to use CC/CV at 1C, and the current tapers down naturally as the voltage increases. Nothing to do with "for longevity". And sure, probably not exactly 1 hour, but it's not super important. Then you have these innovative approaches of hammering the cells with currents significantly higher than 1C at lower SoCs to accelerate charging without damaging the cells, but the marketing promise and the end result is where the body is buried.

I agree on the marketing tactics making things confusing for people (see this convo). But constant voltage (CV) at around 80%SoC has pretty much everything to do with longevity and fire risk. Faster charging EVs know this too, and they have very similar cells and pack designs (I would argue worse), they just allow it.

 

[Outdoors]

Faster charging EVs know this too, and they have very similar cells and pack designs (I would argue worse), they just allow it.

I relish the fact I can have an EV that is 10 years old and has 85% of remaining range. Not willing to take a gamble on a car that might only last 6 years as the packs are wet behind the ears with large usage boundaries to try to break into the business.

 

[Gigahorse]

For some large areas with super high speed limits, and then keeping up with traffic makes it hard. Here in Montana. There are stretches in the winter if one has the courage to go 80 with the heat on, one has to sit a supercharger an hour plus to go through a couple eastern MT supercharger sections pulling nothing. I can't see how it is possible trailering in one.

Sounds like you don't live in Los Angeles and live in a "fly over state" prepare to be bombarded for that comment that trailer with the CT doesn't work and even driving at highway speeds in cold weather and having to charge for 60mins to get to the next one somehow makes you a "tesla hater"

But yea, doin truck stuff, in truck country, the CT and charging network still needs some work, despite what people in the suburbs who use the truck for Costco runs as an adventure may tell you.

 

[Gigahorse]

Is there an official list of states Cybertruck owners aren't expected to be convenient in ?

Unless you live in LA and only use the CT to go to Costco you are not a "real cybertruck owner"

 

[Gigahorse]

My DC charge curve over the life of my vehicle, ~ 2 years and just over 2MWh of DC charging.

No v4s in my area and some older SCs that I frequent that don't exceed ~155kW. Looks like there's at least 1 urban SC in there too. 2.08 MWh over 17h 22m of DC charging. That's an average charge rate of 119.77kW, including all charges where I either didn't precondition sufficiently or was limited by SC output. I don't usually let the battery drop below 10% or charge above 90%, so data points are extremely limited at those extremes.

It's pretty obvious from that data that if I always had 255kW or better chargers available and always preconditioned, that I would easily surpass 1C average charge rate.

In fairness it looks like the vast majority of your charging is between 30-65%
Which is GREAT for battery life, quick charges, decent curve etc.

But for the guys pulling a trailer when 90% charge is needed to make it to the next supercharger (in the summer) the tail end of the charge curve is pretty brutal.

 

[Gigahorse]

And yet you bought the Cybertruck. Did Tesla promise 1C, by definition 0-100% in 1 hour? Serious question.... what am I missing?

Maybe missing this and all the other charge hype.
500kw (adding almost 1300 miles/hour of charging)

That is from over a year and a half ago by the way.

 

[CyberGus]

 

[Outdoors]

In summary the 4680 ain't that bad. Some people did the test wrong and published data. Then wildfire starts. It is middle of the road. Again. Will go with Tesla long term on battery health. I can deal with a few more minutes to pee. Just waiting for a leap in tech. In meantime cleaner air makes me feel good.

 

[devdrone6]

Sounds like Tesla needs “overcharging” report like an over-rev report in a Porsche. Then Tesla can let you override the charge curve for an overcharge curve.

When it’s time to sell, the buyer can see battery degradation and charging abuse. Or when going for a battery warranty repair-Tesla can adjust based on your overcharging.

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