Coil Springs ride quality vs. Air Suspension - no compromise at all (says Cybertruck lead engineer)

[mongo]

My confidence was low because the wide spot looked the same length as the Cybertruck. But I did about a 9 point turn without even scaring myself, easy as pie. I was surprised again, even though I've been turning around on these narrow trails well over a hundred times in the Cybertruck. It's amazingly nimble for it's length.

Advantage of four wheel steering.
I wonder if trail assist would be useful in tight spots like that. Set the speed to 1 MPH and you just need to ride the brake, switch gears, and turn the yoke.

Sponsored

 

[HaulingAss]

Advantage of four wheel steering.
I wonder if trail assist would be useful in tight spots like that. Set the speed to 1 MPH and you just need to ride the brake, switch gears, and turn the yoke.

Hmmm, I hadn't even considered using Trail Assist in that situation. I don't recall the throttle response being an issue though, in the above example, it was all about how far to back up each time without sliding off the mountain. (or slide into the tree in the above situation). I'm not sure Trail Assist would make it better but I'll have to give that a try next time (in a spot with lower consequences). I didn't even know Trail Assist worked in reverse!

 

[leoaa777]

All the justifications are based on price. You just can’t compare standard to the air suspension. Comfort and adaptability it’s unmatched.

 

[signalbobby]

Yeah, the number changed due to fixed spring rate and height, but the LR rear axle/base AWD payload composite has better free capacity than Beast All Season. Rest of suspension geometry is the same.



The air springs need more volume for a higher position, but the pressure stays largely the same (assuming no radical change in effective piston diameter, some impact due to control arm angle). Lower setting does mean a stiffer ride due to higher percentage volume change for the same vertical displacement. Lower CG is more stable and aerodynamic.



For clarity, rear sag doesn't raise the front. Load behind the rear axle raises the front. Air suspension can level the truck but that doesn't change weight distribution. Axle load shift during braking will also be similar between the two types and is impacted by the dampers along with spring rates. Since both are controlled adaptive, should be similar.

Incorrect. Weight and load creating rear sag absolutely will lift the front. I load my raptor with weight in the rear cabin and bed of the truck forward of rear axle to simulate load for accurate alignment. Having eibach HD springs in the rear and fox 3.2 coilivers and some preload, it still lifts the fronts by .50" with static 800lbs of load.

Correction 1/2"

 

[signalbobby]

Iv only owned 1 air suspension and it failed on my GL550. Almost $7k fix, and really nothing special about the ride. Never had a strut fail on me and that's 7 or 8 vehicles. Im not bashing air suspension, I just dont want the complexity and associated cost in my vehicles

Absolutely. Only a matter of time I hope someone develops a comprehensive coilover replacement and maybe air suspension delete. Its a tough nut to Crack given how much capability air suspension does provide.

 

[mongo]

Incorrect. Weight and load creating rear sag absolutely will lift the front. I load my raptor with weight in the rear cabin and bed of the truck forward of rear axle to simulate load for accurate alignment. Having eibach HD springs in the rear and fox 3.2 coilivers and some preload, it still lifts the fronts by .75" with static 800lbs of load.

Do you have scale tickets showing the front axle was unloaded by adding weight forward of the rear axle? Because that doesn't physics.

 

[signalbobby]

Do you have scale tickets showing the front axle was unloaded by adding weight forward of the rear axle? Because that doesn't physics.

Get off your keyboard and your physics. Its reality.

Preloaded static floor to center fender standard measurement.
Front Left 42"
Front Right 42"
Rear Left 42.75"
Rear right 43"

Post 800lb distributed weights with 1k 9mm 124 grain and 1k 5.56 62/55 grain cans in the cabin and front most of bed.

Full tank 36 gallons
Full coil spring 23 raptor on 37's

Front Left 42.5"

Front Right 42.5"

Rear Left 41.8"

Rear right 42"

 

[TripleB]

Everyone that spent 120k on their cybertruck are getting salty.

 

[mongo]

Get off your keyboard and your physics. Its reality.

Preloaded static floor to center fender standard measurement.
Front Left 42"
Front Right 42"
Rear Left 42.75"
Rear right 43"

Post 800lb distributed weights with 1k 9mm 124 grain and 1k 5.56 62/55 grain cans in the cabin and front most of bed.

Full tank 36 gallons
Full coil spring 23 raptor on 37's

Front Left 42.5"

Front Right 42.5"

Rear Left 41.8"

Rear right 42"

Intertesting, did you take measurements at other weights?

 

[unpollo2]

here's Munro engineer video breakdown of the air suspension. his conclusion is it is too complex especially long term but it does offer unmatched comfort. translation don't keep your cybertruck air suspension past 4 year warranty.

 

[signalbobby]

Intertesting, did you take measurements at other weights?

Yes but my main point is weight was all added in front of rear axle on a 4 corner coil suspension. Is there something specific you are looking for?

 

[mongo]

Yes but my main point is weight was all added in front of rear axle on a 4 corner coil suspension. Is there something specific you are looking for?

Well, the whole methodology you used is interesting to me. Especially since suspension height measurements can incur variations on the order of your front measurement points. For example, time span over the measurements, any impulse provided to the vehicle before measuring, number of data points per configuration.

For clarity, my original statement was meant to address weight distribution between axles (which air suspension doesn't address) rather than squat itself. Physics doesn't allow for the front axle to become less loaded by the addition of weight between front and rear axles. Otherwise, if the height trend you measured was extrapolated, sufficient ammo cans would cause the front axle to be completely unloaded.

However, if the front lifted (or the measurement indicated it did) while the load increased, that would be interesting to learn about. Like, did the reduction in rake combined with an arched wheel well throw off the measurement? Or, does the engine block have sufficient mass to cause a significant weight shift due to reduction in rake?

 

[CyberWalrus]

Having owned and driven LR RWD 7000 miles, the coil suspension is very comfortable. It still had the Bilstein active dampers and in combination with the 18 inch balloon tires felt very comparable to AWD air suspension.

The coil suspension actually felt more sporty and had better turning response. Air suspension feels more cushioning, but a little floaty, even in sport mode. It could be the 500lbs less weight on the RWD.

It is unknown if the spring on the new dual motor is same from the RWD. It lists 10" on the website. I remember the RWD had listed 9.5". The actual ride height I saw on screen was 9.3". This sits between the low (8.5") and medium (10.1") of the AWD with air.

Good thing is the dual motor is driving more sales with coil suspension, which should bring more opportunity for aftermarket lifted and lowering springs. It would be very cool to see a lowered RWD drift CT.

Sponsored