tidmutt

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I have no doubt the Cybertruck will charge at 1000V. Elon said it would. But here's the rub: The fact that V.4 chargers are capable of 1 MW of current does not imply the Cybertruck will accept the full 1 MW. It might briefly accept 800 kW for a minute or two at low states of charge before starting to taper. If it could accept the full megawatt, it would only be for seconds, not minutes.

People dreaming of a full charge in 7 minutes are not thinking clearly. That said, after owning two Model 3's for over 4 years each, I can say the speed of Supercharging is the most over-talked about metric of EV's ever. It's already quicker than most people realize (if the driver knows enough to draw the battery down to 10%-25% before charging). When I'm travelling Interstate, the car charges faster than I'm ready to hit the road again.

And having said all that, I WAS a little concerned the much larger battery and higher energy consumption/mile of the Cybertruck that it would be taking a step backward relative to the hyper-efficient and aerodynamic Model 3 when it came to Supercharging times on trips. In other words, all else being equal, a higher Wh/mile vehicle sits at a Supercharger longer than a more efficient vehicle because it needs to take on more energy to travel the same distance. This announcement eliminates those fears (at least when able to use V.4 Superchargers).

Yes, you might have 7-minute Supercharger stops in certain situations, but no, it's not going to charge from 0-100% (or even from 10-90%) in 7 minutes. It doesn't need to do that to make it better than fuelling with gasoline or diesel. Remember, when fuelling with gasoline, you stand at the pump the entire time and it seems like it takes forever. When Supercharging, you plug in and walk away. It's done before you come back in most cases and it's a much better experience.
That may all be true... but... reducing charging time significantly would mean not having to communicate those rather nuanced facts and educate buyers. You can simply say, 0-100% as fast as a gas car! Bam! People lining up.

Yes, it's not technically needed, but it's undeniable that much faster charging would be a huge win. There is also the percentage of the population without access to easy overnight charging. Being able to "fuel up" like a gas car would address a big concern for those people.

It could be in the end that the new architecture and V4 super chargers will simply keep the CT at parity with the 3 and Y, that will be a win for sure. Wouldn't mind if it's better than that though!
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I wonder if they are going to offer a newer version of the at home chargers. My guess is the Cybertruck battery is going to be a little larger than we thought. I wonder how long it will take to charge at home.
How long it takes to charge is mostly a function of how many miles you drive each day. Battery size only affects it if you drive your full range and need your full range the following day.

Drive 100 miles, recharging with a Wall Connector will take about 3 hours.
 

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No you did not misunderstood!

And I'm really not sure of the regs but someone who live in South Lake Tahoe said that regs about chains is based on the severity of snow, ice and road conditions.

There were two occasions with very heavy snow in Truckee/Donner Summit where everyone was stopped and semi had to install "full" chains as called for in the highway lighted bar notifications.

I have a 4wheel drive and I carry chains and I was waved off when the officer in check point saw I have chains. I do it for safety and not just for regulations. I have many close calls coming down Lake Tahoe, Truckee and Donner Summit in snow conditions.

And in some states, tire chains can be mandatory in icy road conditions.
I have been lucky to not drive either 80 or 50 in whiteout conditions (for many years) but that is what the chains are for. I don't mess with snow (from Michigan originally)
 

tidmutt

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How long it takes to charge is mostly a function of how many miles you drive each day. Battery size only affects it if you drive your full range and need your full range the following day.

Drive 100 miles, recharging with a Wall Connector will take about 3 hours.
Well, I'll compare it to my Y. With the mobile connector in a standard 15a outlet I get 4 miles/hour charge speed. However, if the CT has a lower efficiency that rate may be 2 - 3 miles/hour. I see this every day as my partner has a Model X and that's roughly the comparison there. When we need higher speed we use a 30a dryer outlet and the Y gets 21 miles/hour and the X gets 14-15 miles/hour.

So it's not the size of the battery, but how you use it... errr... it's the efficiency of the vehicle.
 
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Cybertruckee

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I have been lucky to not drive either 80 or 50 in whiteout conditions (for many years) but that is what the chains are for. I don't mess with snow (from Michigan originally)
That sure taught you some good lessons, lol.

My bro-in-law came from Illinois before moving to Bay Area in CA. Had a few 360 spins. :eek:

Would back out in any invites and won't cross the I80 over Donner in winter.
 


Crissa

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The Wall Connector is not more expensive to install than a NEMA 14-50 outlet. The NEMA wall outlet actually requires one more conductor. Either solution works but the Wall Connector is a superior solution. I've used both regularly.
The wall connector itself costs more than a placeholder outlet.

-Crissa
 

No-mo-ice

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Wow, that makes charging availability for those who live in apartment complexes less of a hassle. This is exciting news for fleet use as well, with less time off the road for charging.
As for me, this makes the practical even more practical, for I’m buying the CT for its function rather than its looks… and this new information gives me even great confidence in my decision to go with a CT over the other brands.
 

Dids

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I doubt the Semi has the same connector as the CT. All of the CTs I've seen used the NACS port, while the Semi's were always shown with a much larger connector. Maybe the Semi will have more than 1 port, but the CT will have only a NACS port for sure.
No. No. No. The port for v4 megacharger is the same as V3. The handle on V4 is larger.

Tesla Cybertruck Cybertruck 1000V Architecture + V4 Supercharging Confirmed!! ⚡️ "It's Going to be Used for Cybertruck Too" - Elon Musk Screenshot_20221201-214328_Drive
 

ÆCIII

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The 1000 Volt DC charging seems awesome, and looking at their diagram of cable conductors cross sections with coolant returns, I am pondering a couple things about the details:

Tesla Cybertruck Cybertruck 1000V Architecture + V4 Supercharging Confirmed!! ⚡️ "It's Going to be Used for Cybertruck Too" - Elon Musk 1670015498703


So, are the two HV Conductors (even though DC), are they opposite 'phased', or maybe one being positive 1000 volts with the other being negative 1000 volts (in relation to ground)? If so, that's a 2000 volt differential, meaning only 500 amps of DC current are needed between them to get the 1 Megawatt of charging power. Would that still require 500 amps in each HV Conductor if one is positive and the other is negative? I believe so, since the math would require it. That would still seem likely feasible to me considering wire sizes plus the cooling, especially if the wires are copper, and if the coolant was flowing or exchanging fast enough.

Everyone (at least mostly I think) knows not to drop a hair dryer into a bath tub, because (even the least bit contaminated) water will conduct electricity. Pure water supposedly does not conduct but I of course have not tested that and its for a different discussion. I'm not sure if the coolant in these V4 cables is water, but I think I heard Elon mention it was some mixture with water in his presentation. With this implementation, whether or not the coolant is conductive may or may not be relevant, because it's apparently isolated in each of its supply tubes and the corresponding HV Conductor returns. So my question would be, if this coolant happens to be conductive (or maybe even Very Conductive), would it also provide an inherent increase in current capacity in addition to the cooling of the core HV Conductors? If so, this would be ingenious and totally expected IMO with anything Elon's got something to do with.

Just a couple thoughts and questions I was pondering. Maybe someone can illuminate this more if they have some information?

- ÆCIII


(Note: this is just fun speculative questioning, certainly without knowing the details this soon after the presentation,
so try to be gentle or constructive if I get something wrong) :)
 
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Dids

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The 1000 Volt DC charging seems awesome, and looking at their diagram of cable conductors cross sections with coolant returns, I am pondering a couple things about the details:

1670015498703.png


So, are the two HV Conductors (even though DC), are they opposite 'phased', or maybe one being positive 1000 volts with the other being negative 1000 volts (in relation to ground)? If so, that's a 2000 volt differential, meaning only 500 amps of DC current are needed between them to get the 1 Megawatt of charging power, which would mean 250 amps in each HV Conductor if one is positive and the other is negative. That would seem quite feasible to me considering likely wire sizes plus the cooling, especially if the wires are copper.

Everyone (at least mostly I think) knows not to drop a hair dryer into a bath tub, because (even the least bit contaminated) water will conduct electricity. Pure water supposedly does not conduct but I of course have not tested that and its for a different discussion. I'm not sure if the coolant in these V4 cables is water, but I think I heard Elon mention it was some mixture with water in his presentation. With this implementation, whether or not the coolant is conductive may or may not be relevant, because it's apparently isolated in each of its supply tubes and the corresponding HV Conductor returns. So my question would be, if this coolant happens to be conductive (or maybe even Very Conductive), would it also provide an inherent increase in current capacity in addition to the cooling of the core HV Conductors? If so, this would be ingenious and totally expected IMO with anything Elon's got something to do with.

Just a couple thoughts and questions I was pondering. Maybe someone can illuminate this more if they have some information?

- ÆCIII


(Note: this is just fun speculative questioning, certainly without knowing the details this soon after the presentation,
so try to be gentle or constructive if I get something wrong) :)
They mentioned that they monitor carefully for insulation breakdown and i understoodthat the 2 coolant lines were at the votage potential of their respective conductor as well. It is not 2000v difference between the 2 conductors. It is 1000v between the 2 conductors. Ground doesn't matter for DC potential.
 

Crissa

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According to the NACS doc, the port will be the same for v1-v4 charging, the cable and handle have slight changes to prevent arcing at high voltage. What it is (assuming the engineering is done) vs what can be is the rub.
The NACS documents don't say if the charging meets megacharging needs or not. Photos have shown them using a big rectangular connector, two NACS connectors, and something that looks like a slim MCS connector in the most recent video. So who knows!

-Crissa
 

ÆCIII

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They mentioned that they monitor carefully for insulation breakdown and i understoodthat the 2 coolant lines were at the votage potential of their respective conductor as well. It is not 2000v difference between the 2 conductors. It is 1000v between the 2 conductors. Ground doesn't matter for DC potential.
I kind of see you point now, because if what I were speculating was true, I think there would have to be a separate ground conductor in addition to the two, (or would there)?

I was speculating on that 'path' because 1 Megawatt would need 1000 amps with there were only 1000 volts differential/potential. To me 1000 amps seems like it's really pushing boundaries in those type cables, even With coolant. So I was trying to see how they would reduce the current and still get the same level of charging power overall. But I certainly don't presume to know exactly, and I'm sure the exact detailed specs will come out eventually.
 

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So, are the two HV Conductors (even though DC), are they opposite 'phased', or maybe one being positive 1000 volts with the other being negative 1000 volts (in relation to ground)?
There will be 1000VDC measured between the two conductors. The high voltage systems are isolated from ground, chassis etc.¹ So measuring to ground is meaningless.

Would that still require 500 amps in each HV Conductor if one is positive and the other is negative?
In a circuit the current in equals the current out. At full charge rate (1MW) there will be 1000A flowing through the circuit. (Assuming 1000VDC).

Pure water supposedly does not conduct but I of course have not tested that and its for a different discussion.
We tested it in high school physics. Distilled water did not conduct until we added a little salt to it.

if this coolant happens to be conductive (or maybe even Very Conductive), would it also provide an inherent increase in current capacity in addition to the cooling of the core HV Conductors?
Interesting thought. I don't think it would be significant, but it's got me thinking.

¹ I'd always assumed the high voltage system would be isolated from the car chassis and ground, but I found WeberAuto YouTube channel prove it.

 

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So any educated guess on what the final price is going to be. I’d guess we’ll over 100K…

thoughts.
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