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cybercricket

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to be clear i am not Tesla hating here. I am quite happy with my CT and the materials selection. It is not intended to be a heavy duty work truck. A cast aluminum frame is more than adequate.
"Heavy duty work truck" is an arbitrary definition that can't be really argued with any kinds of facts. Generally speaking people seem to think that the ability to withstand abuse is "heavy duty", but then one person's abuse is another person's ride in the woods.
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cybercricket

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Not my opinion man. It is called experience and being safe.

Many RVers and towing enthusiasts advocate for the "80% rule," which suggests not exceeding 80% of the maximum towing capacity. This provides a buffer for unforeseen circumstances and allows for some "play" in the system. Some suggest even lower percentages, like 75% or even 65%, depending on the type of trailer and driving conditions.
You claim authority due to experience, but you're missing the fact this conversation exists because of the unprecedented (as in there is no experience) context in towing applications. Either way, nobody denies you the choice to tow at whatever percentages.
 

CyberTexas

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"Heavy duty work truck" is an arbitrary definition that can't be really argued with any kinds of facts. Generally speaking people seem to think that the ability to withstand abuse is "heavy duty", but then one person's abuse is another person's ride in the woods.
HD truck for me is F250/350. Chevy 2500 etc

I do NOT refer to my F150 as HD truck.
 
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CyberTexas

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You claim authority due to experience, but you're missing the fact this conversation exists because of the unprecedented (as in there is no experience) context in towing applications. Either way, nobody denies you the choice to tow at whatever percentages.
huh?! But sure. You do you.
 

Texarado

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I watched the video and think it’s fair but with a presentation to be clickbaity. The fatigue issues seem like fair questions and we’re stuck taking Teslas word just like others have to take their OEMs words. What I don’t like from an engineering perspective is that in an effort to show how a dynamic force could conceivably exceed the max rating, he fails to describe how a normal towing load or a trailer with low center of gravity could actually have very low if not deminimus increase in that downward force while in motion.

Again, some fair questions raised. But loss of credibility from an agenda perspective.
 


HaulingAss

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The critiques raised in the video were real and accurate, if they ever show up in real world use is another matter. The fact remains that steel framed trucks have a higher margin built into them than the CT because of the use of aluminum. No amount of blind fan-boying will change that simple fact.
All the twisted wreckage of traditional steel trucks and trailers I've seen burning on the side of the highway firstthand would argue against traditional trucks having a higher safety margin built-in. What I've felt whenever I've towed a trailer near the published limits of a steel ladder frame body on frame truck is that the mild steel acts like a big spring when the trailer starts imposing side forces on it. If the frequencies align it can easily become a series of increasing oscillations, which is why so many people who tow are terrified of trailer sway. Because it can have disasterous consequences, and it DOES have disasterous consequences every summer all over the American West.

This is why so many people say the rule of thumb is to only tow up to 80% of the vehicles tow rating, flexy frames make it dangerous. Sure, a knowledgable tow driver can safely tow up to the limits (and sometimes beyond) but they need good equipment setup and they need to know what they are doing.

The Cybertruck, with it's much stiffer chassis, and no ladder steel frame, doesn't have this dangerous problem. The Cybertruck chassis is many times stiffer than an F-150 or Silverado chassis, it's not even close.

As to metal fatigue, it's well understood. The fact that there is no required inspection interval indicates that it's designed such that metal fatigue will not be an issue over the entire service life of the truck, even if it's used exclusively for towing. In other words, the people who think this might be an issue are not the same people who did the finite load analyses and who were well aware of all the potential limitations of the materials employed.

The people who want to throw shade on Cybertruck work like this:

1) Identify any aspect of the Cybertruck that is different from other trucks.
2) Explain why this is going to be a problem. They will even use engineering concepts to try to convince you it's a real problem but without any actual failures documented, they have to stage their own. Then they say, "Wow! Big problem!"

I'm surprised anyone falls for it, but this thread is proof that they do.
 
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Cyber Man

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All the twisted wreckage of traditional steel trucks and trailers I've seen burning on the side of the highway firstthand would argue against traditional trucks having a higher safety margin built-in. What I've felt whenever I've towed a trailer near the published limits of a steel ladder frame body on frame truck is that the mild steel acts like a big spring when the trailer starts imposing side forces on it. If the frequencies align it can easily become a series of increasing oscillations, which is why so many people who tow are terrified of trailer sway. Because it can have disasterous consequences, and it DOES have disasterous consequences every summer all over the American West.

This is why so many people say the rule of thumb is to only tow up to 80% of the vehicles tow rating, flexy frames make it dangerous. Sure, a knowledgable tow driver can safely tow up to the limits (and sometimes beyond) but they need good equipment setup and they need to know what they are doing.

The Cybertruck, with it's much stiffer chassis, and no ladder steel frame, doesn't have this dangerous problem. The Cybertruck chassis is many times stiffer than an F-150 or Silverado chassis, it's not even close.

As to metal fatigue, it's well understood. The fact that there is no required inspection interval indicates that it's designed such that metal fatigue will not be an issue over the entire service life of the truck, even if it's used exclusively for towing. In other words, the people who think this might be an issue are not the same people who did the finite load analyses and who were well aware of all the potential limitations of the materials employed.

The people who want to throw shade on Cybertruck work like this:

1) Identify any aspect of the Cybertruck that is different from other trucks.
2) Explain why this is going to be a problem. They will even use engineering concepts to try to convince you it's a real problem but without any actual failures documented, they have to stage their own. Then they say, "Wow! Big problem!"

I'm surprised anyone falls for it, but this thread is proof that they do.
lol, and 3) Some Cybertruck owners who see through the BS will have to intervene and call it out! ?‍♂

I’m sure the skeptics will add point 4) to this list ?

To the skeptics - I said this one and will say this again. It’s not aluminum, it’s aluminum alloy!! Big difference. Not all metals are created equal. My high quality stainless steel straight razor is rusting now. Now should I say all Truck chassis will rust and crumble in 5 years?

I trust the engineers who understand metallurgy enough to build space shuttles that can withstand insane atmospheric heat while bringing human beings back to planet earth. Now please don’t say it’s not the same metal used in CT. I’m just saying it’s the same smart people building these technologies! Enjoy your CT to heart and stop worrying about Truck snapping while towing. Just stay within OEM specs, and you will be fine! If your truck still snaps into half with normal towing, make a spectacular video and post it. You will make enough money to buy an another Cybertruck! ?
 

BannedByTMC

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I trust the engineers who understand metallurgy enough to build space shuttles that can withstand insane atmospheric heat while bringing human beings back to planet earth. Now please don’t say it’s not the same metal used in CT. I’m just saying it’s the same smart people building these technologies!
You mean these people?
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...re-falling-off-is-this-a-new-phenomena.35832/

One might think that building rockets is not the same as building vehicles...
 

Cyber Man

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You mean these people?
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...re-falling-off-is-this-a-new-phenomena.35832/

One might think that building rockets is not the same as building vehicles...
lol! That’s your comparison? You missed the other major recalls ?. I never said the Truck is perfectly built by rocket scientists. I just got my front drive unit changed for some rumbling sound. There is always room for improvement and recalls do happen, especially for a completely high-tech innovation like Cybertruck.

When it comes to chassis, calling it out as a design flaw or “fragile” alloy by doing weird vertical load test with half-baked engineering explanation is pure BS! Tesla would have done serious undertaking before deciding on the material. If people have trouble trusting, they are always welcome to buy other trucks and experience how inferior these trucks are!
 

BannedByTMC

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lol! That’s your comparison? You missed the other major recalls ?.
One proved my point, no need for me to list all the others of which you are likely aware.

I never said the Truck is perfectly built by rocket scientists.
Except that you kinda implied it with

I trust the engineers who understand metallurgy enough to build space shuttles that can withstand insane atmospheric heat while bringing human beings back to planet earth.
It's known as an "appeal to authority fallacy".
 


Cyber Man

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It's known as an "appeal to authority fallacy".
I have bashed Tesla for the right seasons multiple times in the past. Bring datapoints from real world testing to claim that the Chassis will fall apart over extended period of time, and I’ll trust your point. I’m always open to accept new theories. People don’t understand how towing works, mechanisms of directional force excreted, no clue about OEM testing done for safety, especially skid plate testing, how alloys differ from primary metal, etc. and just sit and spew half-baked engineering facts. I mentioned skid plate testing at least in 5 threads, and not a single skeptic talked about it. Probably some skeptics have never even towed more than 10,000 lbs or never intend to tow, but they just sit and talk about imaginary scenario with the imaginary truck that they don’t plan to buy in the imaginary future! Probably these are the people who don’t have authority over their own thinking! ?
 

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You mean these people?
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...re-falling-off-is-this-a-new-phenomena.35832/

One might think that building rockets is not the same as building vehicles...
Can you explain why you are so persistently negative on Tesla? I imagine you were banned by Tesla Motors Club because they identified you as a Tesla Troll (with a capital "T"). The fact that you wear that as a badge of honor does not reflect positively on your motives.

Your link shows incredulousness that anyone would use glue (structural adhesive) to hold on a metal trim piece. Did you know that by 2015 the average passenger car used over 26 lbs. of glue in its manufacture? And that is almost certainly significantly higher now. And much of that is used in critical structures within the chassis?

I suspect this application did not succeed because some of the roof trim pieces were not de-greased thoroughly enough. Being a non-structural trim piece, they probably took a cleaning shortcut that came back to bite them on a portion of their production. Big deal. This is a rare physical recall for the Cybertruck.

I would really like to know why you feel compelled to throw so much negativity towards made-up problems for which there are zero cases of failure? Is it that you are jealous that we have Cybertrucks and you don't? I think I just hit the nail on head. At least I hope that's all that's going on here.
 

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I would really like to know why you feel compelled to throw so much negativity towards made-up problems for which there are zero cases of failure? Is it that you are jealous that we have Cybertrucks and you don't? I think I just hit the nail on head. At least I hope that's all that's going on here.
You're so far from the "nail" you aren't even in the same universe. As previously discussed I had a CT reservation and cancelled it because I no longer want one, why you would imagine that as being "jealous" speaks volumes about you.

No I wasn't banned for being negative, I was banned because I repeatedly clashed with an irrational mod who has banned many other valuable members who also spoke their minds. Did you forget you pretend to be in favor of free speech?

Simply pointing out the truth is not being "negative". The issue is you seem to be so emotionally attached to your vehicle and Tesla you can't handle the truth, it's a bit pathological.
 
 








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