Cybertruck Press (9000 Ton IDRA Giga Press) being assembled! [Confirmed by Elon Musk] 🍿

[hridge2020]

I have seen some good clues.

I viewed the IDRA open house video and the Twitter image of the press.

My conclusion is its being assembled in Italy for the 06-14 JUNE 2022 - 9000T.

The roof accents in the IDRA Italy video and Twitter image match.

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[Spartacus]

So for the experts on casting machines ... do they use a vacuum pump to hasten the injection process? Would need perfectly matching machined parts to pull this off.

 

[anionic1]

That is a clamping force. 16,000,000 - 18,000,000 lbs. Which makes sense at those molten injectors use pressure around 3000 psi from what I find online. That calculates out to about 37 sf of surface area that the 8000 ton force could handle at 3000 psi, which seems actually pretty realistic for the surface area of the castings. Obviously there is probably a large factor of safety in there.

It is so wild to think that they are making the entire front and rear as large castings. I do worry that is much more likely to total the vehicle in case of an accident. That casting is damaged and the truck is done. Typical steel frame damage is no joke but at least its often repairable if it makes sense financially. The option with the big huge casting would seem that you would have to replace the entire casting.

 

[intimidator]

That is a clamping force. 16,000,000 - 18,000,000 lbs. Which makes sense at those molten injectors use pressure around 3000 psi from what I find online. That calculates out to about 37 sf of surface area that the 8000 ton force could handle at 3000 psi, which seems actually pretty realistic for the surface area of the castings. Obviously there is probably a large factor of safety in there.

It is so wild to think that they are making the entire front and rear as large castings. I do worry that is much more likely to total the vehicle in case of an accident. That casting is damaged and the truck is done. Typical steel frame damage is no joke but at least its often repairable if it makes sense financially. The option with the big huge casting would seem that you would have to replace the entire casting.

That does make sense (totaling the vehicle if the casting is damaged). I assume insurance will have to be higher? to compensate for that risk to the insurance company.

 

[Crissa]

So for the experts on casting machines ... do they use a vacuum pump to hasten the injection process? Would need perfectly matching machined parts to pull this off.

Yes. And yes.

That does make sense (totaling the vehicle if the casting is damaged). I assume insurance will have to be higher? to compensate for that risk to the insurance company.

No. The casting is not more vulnerable to failure than the assembly it is replacing.

-Crissa

 

[anionic1]

Yes. And yes.


No. The casting is not more vulnerable to failure than the assembly it is replacing.

-Crissa

We never said it was more vulnerable to failure rather more vulnerable to costlier repairs.

 

[firsttruck]

We never said it was more vulnerable to failure rather more vulnerable to costlier repairs.

The cost to repair between the two is not apples to apples.

Replacing a damaged aluminum Giga-casting with a factory made Giga-casting should keep vehicle's original crash rating.

A damaged steel frame that is repaired by a frame repair shop bending frame back and doing some welding is no longer certified for crash rating. Resale value of vehicle is damaged and insurance company is likely to not approve this type repair so insurance company declares vehicle totaled.

 

[Ogre]

That does make sense (totaling the vehicle if the casting is damaged). I assume insurance will have to be higher? to compensate for that risk to the insurance company.

On a unibody car, the front assembly is always going to be a single piece in the end. The difference is whether that piece is cast in one instant or created by welding a series of other parts one by one onto the common assembly. Once you’ve welded those pieces together, they are no longer separate pieces. If an impact damages that unibody assembly, that damage ends up getting spread across the whole unibody, not just the one welded on piece.

In the event of a collision which is severe enough to damage that single part, the vehicle is almost certain to be totaled because the forces are transmitted to the entire assembly.

 

[firsttruck]

On a unibody car, the front assembly is always going to be a single piece in the end. The difference is whether that piece is cast in one instant or created by welding a series of other parts one by one onto the common assembly. Once you’ve welded those pieces together, they are no longer separate pieces. If an impact damages that unibody assembly, that damage ends up getting spread across the whole unibody, not just the one welded on piece.

In the event of a collision which is severe enough to damage that single part, the vehicle is almost certain to be totaled because the forces are transmitted to the entire assembly.

Yup

not visible to eye or hidden under paint/anti-rust-coating - individual pieces of the welded assembly could have pieces with small fractures, pieces that are stretched, weakened welds between pieces.

 

[Crissa]

The crush cans of the crumple zone on the casting will be replaceable, but if anything else gets damaged, it's totaled.

But that is true of a welded body as well.

-Crissa

 

[Throwcomputer]

That's not Austin. That roof system doesn't match Austin.

I know. That was my point. It's somewhere else.

 

[HaulingAss]

It is so wild to think that they are making the entire front and rear as large castings. I do worry that is much more likely to total the vehicle in case of an accident. That casting is damaged and the truck is done. Typical steel frame damage is no joke but at least its often repairable if it makes sense financially. The option with the big huge casting would seem that you would have to replace the entire casting.

Tesla will sell replacement extensions for the front of the casting if the damage is limited to the initial front or rear crumple zone. Just cut the damaged ones off, bolt new ones on and replace all the surrounding components that were damaged from the impact.

The real beauty of the front and rear castings, along with the structural battery, is just how rigid the entire assemble will be once it's coupled directly to the 3mm thick stainless steel structure. It will make conventional trucks feel like loosy-goosy flexi-flyers when towing a heavy load. The Cybertruck, in contrast will feel solid as a rock when towing heavy loads. It will tow with a competence offered by no other truck in it's class.

I've towed a number of heavy loads with conventional trucks like the F-150 and the Silverado and it's shocking how much chassis flex is apparent even when loaded under the maximum tow ratings and when the load is properly balanced. This is the flex that can cause the dreaded trailer sway of increasing ocillations that ultimately results in the trailers you have likely seen rolled over, twisted and mangled if you've spent much time on the highways of the Western U.S. I've never had a disaster, but I sure have felt how insecure towing can feel when an oscillation is trying to grow stronger. Ultimately, the only thing that might stop these flexi-flyers from getting out of control is the weight of the tow vehicle, the traction of the tires and the fact that the chassis is not more flexible than it is. The Cybertruck will be so rigid these kind of oscillations will never even successfully establish themselves to begin with.

 

[GnarlyDudeLive]

That does make sense (totaling the vehicle if the casting is damaged). I assume insurance will have to be higher? to compensate for that risk to the insurance company.

I don't think it makes much difference honestly. A non-casted front clip is essentially a single piece as well once welded and fastened into a single assembly. Either way if the damage is deemed repairable, the bad portion is cut out and a new portion is then welded in its place.

The likely bigger reason is simply the lack of talent and trained skilled workers to do that work on a single piece aluminum alloy piece, thus they simply total it. An insurance company does not take that huge of a hit on a EV by totaling it after they recoup the damaged vehicle, strip it of value, motors, batteries plus any other bits and pieces deemed of use for repairing other vehicles. At least no worse than an ICE vehicle all said and done.

 

[anionic1]

The cost to repair between the two is not apples to apples.

Replacing a damaged aluminum Giga-casting with a factory made Giga-casting should keep vehicle's original crash rating.

A damaged steel frame that is repaired by a frame repair shop bending frame back and doing some welding is no longer certified for crash rating. Resale value of vehicle is damaged and insurance company is likely to not approve this type repair so insurance company declares vehicle totaled.

RIght, and the point is regarding cost. No one would try to repair the aluminum casting by sawing or welding on parts to fix it so you are essentially totaled. But, its very likely that an experienced body shop would be willing to repair a steel frame if their was value enough in the vehicle.

I don't think it makes much difference honestly. A non-casted front clip is essentially a single piece as well once welded and fastened into a single assembly. Either way if the damage is deemed repairable, the bad portion is cut out and a new portion is then welded in its place.

The likely bigger reason is simply the lack of talent and trained skilled workers to do that work on a single piece aluminum alloy piece, thus they simply total it. An insurance company does not take that huge of a hit on a EV by totaling it after they recoup the damaged vehicle, strip it of value, motors, batteries plus any other bits and pieces deemed of use for repairing other vehicles. At least no worse than an ICE vehicle all said and done.

Except it will likely be a $70k to $90k vehicle.

 

[firsttruck]

The cost to repair between the two is not apples to apples.

Replacing a damaged aluminum Giga-casting with a factory made Giga-casting should keep vehicle's original crash rating.

A damaged steel frame that is repaired by a frame repair shop bending frame back and doing some welding is no longer certified for crash rating. Resale value of vehicle is damaged and insurance company is likely to not approve this type repair so insurance company declares vehicle totaled.

RIght, and the point is regarding cost. No one would try to repair the aluminum casting by sawing or welding on parts to fix it so you are essentially totaled. But, its very likely that an experienced body shop would be willing to repair a steel frame if their was value enough in the vehicle.
....

My point is a steel uni-body frame that was damaged in crash then straightened & welded by body/frame shop is likely not to perform well or as predicted if the vehicle is in another crash.

Tesla is designed & rated to be safest production cars made.
Isn't that part of reason to buy Tesla.
If safety not important you could save money at the initial purchase by buying another brand and not wait to scrimp on money & safety level on repair.

Will insurance company accept the risk that in the next accident, driver & passenger could have more serious injuries or death.

Is the insurance company really saving money with steel uni-body structural repair by frame shop straighten & weld if the insurance company has to pay more in the next accident because the vehicle could not protect the passengers to the degree that factory had designed?

If you change insurance company will the next insurance company accept risk that the frame shop straighten & weld did not increase risk and larger payout for passenger injuries.

What if passenger found out vehicle was no longer factory certified to original crash rating and sued you for their injuries.

Possible increased risk of loss of life, reduced safety, increasef medical bills of you and your passengers really be worth less than repair saving from steel straightening/welding vs factory certified gig-casting?

How much lost resale value because buyers do not want or heavily discount the sale price.

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Gerber Collision - Car Frame Damage 101
https://www.gerbercollision.com/articles/car-frame-damage-101

....
Another aspect to consider is the car’s ability to protect you if you experience another collision. If the car has sustained structural damage before, it may not be able to provide the same level of protection in future incidents. Additionally, it’s important to be aware of the damaged car laws in your area. Some states deem driving with a damaged car illegal, particularly if the car presents a danger to the driver or others on the road.

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Disclosing Car Damage You’re buying a car, but you’re worried that it may have been damaged in the past. Learn what sellers are supposed to tell you about damage to a car they’re selling in North Carolina.
NCDOJ > Protecting Consumers > Automobiles > Disclosing Car Damage
State of North Carolina Dept. of Justice
https://ncdoj.gov/protecting-consumers/automobiles/disclosing-car-damage/

.....
For used cars less than five years old, the seller must disclose damage of more that 25 percent of the car’s fair market value to the buyer in writing.

If a car has been salvaged, that information must be disclosed in writing before the car is sold. A vehicle is considered salvaged if it has been damaged to the extent that repairs to make it safe enough to drive would exceed 75 percent of its fair market value. This applies whether or not the car has been declared totaled by an insurer.

If a car has been damaged during a flood, this information must be disclosed in writing before the car is sold. A flood vehicle is one that has been submerged or partially submerged in water causing damage to the body, engine or transmission.

If a car has been rebuilt, this must be disclosed in writing before the car is sold. A vehicle is considered reconstructed if essential parts have been removed, added or substituted.

These disclosure requirements apply to anyone selling a car, including individual sellers and dealerships.

What Can You Do To Avoid Buying a Damaged Car?

Carefully examine the car to make sure there are no defects. If you notice any minor scratches or dings, ask the dealer to correct them.

Ask the dealer if the vehicle you are considering has had any damage repaired. The dealer is required by law to tell you the truth.

Ask the salesperson to put any information about damage in writing. If the salesperson is not willing to put the information in writing, then reconsider buying the car from that dealer.

If the car has been repaired, ask for a copy of the dealer’s internal repair invoice.


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https://www.carfax.com/blog/structural-damage-101

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How Does Structural Damage Affect a Car’s Resale Value? A car that’s suffered structural damage and has been repaired usually loses some value compared to vehicles without that damage. This can vary, of course, according to the vehicle and the severity and nature of the damage.

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You won’t be able to simply eyeball a car or truck to determine whether it’s had structural damage. Fortunately, obtaining a Carfax Vehicle History Report can indicate if a pre-owned vehicle has been in a wreck and whether any structural damage was reported. It also will indicate whether a model was previously salvaged and rebuilt.

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NAAA Structural Damage Policy
https://www.naaa.com/Policy/Arbitra..._Posters/2021_new_strucdam_section1Poster.pdf

The purpose of the NAAA Structural Damage Policy is to define and clarify terminology associated with structural damage and to specify the disclosure requirements of the seller for vehicles offered at NAAA affiliated auctions.

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Seller Disclosure Requirements Sellers must disclose structural damage, repairs or replacements (certified or non-certified) as outlined in this policy prior to selling a vehicle at auction


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Bel Air Auto Auction - Structural Damage Policy
https://www.bscamerica.com/bel-air-auction/auction-policies/appendix/

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2. Recommended Disclosures Structural Damage: Damage to the structure or a specific structural component of the vehicle. Often referred to as frame damage, although it also applies to Unibody and Unibody on Frame structures in addition to Conventional Frame. Certified Structural Repairs/Replacement: Repairs to a specifically identified structural component of a vehicle that has been certified to be within the Used Vehicle Measurement Standard (UVMS). Structural Alteration: An alteration to the vehicle’s structure including a lengthened or shortened frame, a modified suspension, or the installation or removal of after-market accessories.

3. Seller Disclosure Requirements Seller must disclose permanent structural damage, any structural alterations, structural repairs or replacements (certified or non-certified) as outlined in this policy prior to selling a vehicle at auction regardless of sales channel or light condition.


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Does a car dealer have to disclose an accident in Ohio?
In Ohio, as well as many other states, a car dealer has a duty to disclose prior damage to a vehicle whether it is new or used.
https://www.lemonusedcarlaw.com › previously-wrecked-...

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Wisconsin DMV Official Government Site - Sell your vehicle
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/dmv/vehicles/sll-jnk-vhcl/sellyourvehicle.aspx

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Brand disclosure A "brand" is a permanent notation on the vehicle record that gives a prospective buyer important information about the history of a vehicle. Note: There are penalties up to $5,000 for failing to disclose title brand information. Your title must be branded if, during the time you owned the vehicle, you could answer "yes" to any of the following questions: Was your vehicle used as a taxi or for public transportation? Was it salvaged? A "salvage" brand is needed if your vehicle is less than seven model years old and was damaged more than 70% of its fair market value. If your vehicle was salvaged, repaired and passed inspection, your title should have the brand "rebuilt salvage." Was it flood damaged? A "flood damaged" brand is needed if water damage was more than 70% of its fair market value. Was it used as a police vehicle? The brand "manufacturer buyback" on your title means the vehicle was bought back under the Lemon Law. A brand of "STFARM NOT INSPECTED" is placed on a vehicle declared by State Farm Insurance as a total loss, but not submitted as salvage, and was part of the State Farm settlement with the Department of Justice. The vehicle has not passed an inspection by a certified state salvage inspector. This is not a salvage brand.

"Fair market value" means the value of a vehicle, taking into account the condition of the vehicle immediately before the damage occurred, and determined by reliable sources generally accepted within the automotive and insurance industries (price guidebooks, dealer quotations, computerized valuation services and other methods prescribed by the department). s.340.01(15v)

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