CYBERTRUCK TIRE EATS A BOLT IN A REMOTE LOCATION ON SUNDAY MORNING

[HaulingAss]

Its funny. Every link I post is not good enough for you. You always have a response. You didn't get the post. It's not runtime I am concerned with overall. It's *duty cycle*. Typically the cheaper the air compressor, the lower the duty cycle. As I stated before, the expensive ARBs (i.e. the twin air compressor) can have nearly 100% duty cycle times. Sure, I can buy that and be done with it. but for something I am going to use a handful of times, its a ridiculous amount to spend.

The duty cycle of the compressor I bought? I don't know that the manufacturer even rates it, if they do, I don't know what it is. And it doesn't matter in my application, because I will never run it past 5 minutes in any given hour.

I linked to a Makita. I simply stated that I was *also* looking at a tank version mostly for duty cycle. All you had to say was, the one I have (still awaiting your link for what it is and where you got it) has a 100% duty cycle and can do all your tires in 1 shot. BOOM! Over. Perfect product for me. Thanks @HaulingAss... thats a great product and I will order one!

Again, Duty Cycle doesn't matter in this application unless you will be filling the tires on multiple vehicles, consecutively. Even then, the pause between hooking up to different vehicles would probably make duty cycle irrelevant on any compressor with enough volume capacity to be reasonable for the task at hand. Just buy a compressor that has enough volume capacity to fill them in one go.

Instead you go into some diatribe about how duty cycle is longer with a tank which is 100% untrue.

If I said addding a tank changes the duty cycle of a compressor, I mispoke. I meant the runtime would be longer, the duty cycle is a rating of the compressor itself, and doesn't change depending upon whether there is a tank involved. That said, there are different duty cycle ratings for different pressures (the duty cycle rating is shorter at higher tank pressures). And adding an inline tank is going to make the average working pressure higher and thus the duty cycle rating would be lower.

Ever wonder why ARB sells a 4L (1 gallon) tank as an add on to its twin air compressor?

Because people like you, but with more money, will pay extra for that! Haha! Seriously, it sounds like something that might be needed if your 12V compressor is mounted in a hot engine bay, and is cycling on/off due to excessive heat. That will allow you to keep filling each tire even as the compressor shuts off. A marginal benefit in a different application than what we were discussing. something we don't have to worry about because our compressor won't be mounted in a hot engine bay. Duh. Do you really think it's going to overheat in 4 minutes?

Answer: no.

When I was a small child I told my mom I wanted a toothbrush with extra firm bristles. Sho told me that dentists recomended softer bristles. of course I thought she was full of it, otherwise why would the toothbrush companies even offer extra firm bristles? She taught me an important lesson when she said they will sell you anything you want, as long as you were willing to pay for it.

I'll also let you Google the number of sites out there who have duty cycle calculator based on CFM and tank size. There are a lot. The main takeaway: Duty cycle is inversely proportional to tank size.

The smaller the tank size, the higher the duty cycle your compressor needs to be for a given continuous flow rate. Yes.

The reason that's not applicable here is because we are filling all four tires in one short but continuous runtime that is within the capability of the compressor. Duty cycle doesn't even enter into it as long as the compressor is sized so it can complete the fill in one run without overheating. The compressor will not shut off due to an overheat condition until the tires reach their target pressure, due to the high flow rate into all four tires simultaneously. The tires are like one large compressor air tank, you don't need two. You turn on the compressor, it fills up this large air tank up to 50 psi (or whatever yur target pressure is) and then you shut it off.

The MorrFlate style filling system leverages low pressures to fill all the tires faster. The compressor is never at a higher working pressure than what's in the tires at any given moment (ignoring the small pressure differential caused by friction in the hoses and valves). That's how it can fill them so fast without using a tank, the lower average working pressure reduces heat generation because compressors run more efficiently at lower pressures. When you use a tank you have to run the compressor at higher average pressures, because the tank cutoff pressure has to be considerably higher than the maximum tire pressure. That's because there is a pressure differential between the pressure at which the compressor turns on and the cut-off pressure. And the difference between the cut-off pressure and the differential pressure must be higher than your tire target pressure or the compressor will not bring your tire up to the desired pressure (without adjusting either the cutoff pressure higher or reducing the pressure differential). And there is a limit as to how small the pressure differential can be.

All of this works great when using pneumatic tools, but it's far from ideal for simply filling tires up in the field.

My ego? Seriously? Wow.

Yes. Because you can't seem to admit that you don't know what you are talking about, even to yourself.

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[M0unt41nm4n]

Overal duty cycle is output CFM/ compressor CFM. A tank doesn't change this, but does increase the on and off durations. If the outflow is higher than the compressor output, it will run continously since it never gets to the high limit cutoff. For a low CFM compressor filling four tires, this may be the situation.

The tank only speeds things up if it starts well above tire pressure and finishes at tire pressure. Otherwise, it is just more volume to pressurize. If you leave the compressor running after shutting off the tire inflation, that run time filling the tank will speed things up the next time.

Correct. This is inline with my thoughts and what I said which is the bigger the tank, the lower the duty cycle.

 

[HaulingAss]

Overal duty cycle is output CFM/ compressor CFM. A tank doesn't change this, but does increase the on and off durations. If the outflow is higher than the compressor output, it will run continously since it never gets to the high limit cutoff. For a low CFM compressor filling four tires, this may be the situation.

The tank only speeds things up if it starts well above tire pressure and finishes at tire pressure. Otherwise, it is just more volume to pressurize. If you leave the compressor running after shutting off the tire inflation, that run time filling the tank will speed things up the next time.

Thank you Mongo. Maybe he will believe you. He likes to tell me (and a couple other unnamed persons) that we are wrong. And no matter how carefully it's explained to him, he is incapable of ever coming around.

Edit: Hallelujah! It looks like it worked!

 

[Crissa]

Duty cycle matters when it's tuned to filling a bicycle or car tire instead of a truck tire,

-Crissa

 

[Bill W.]

One item that should be in your tire repair kits is a yellow or white grease pencil (or chalk) to mark the area of the puncture BEFORE pulling the object out. It can be surprisingly difficult to accurately locate the hole on some punctures. Just my 2 cents.

 

[mongo]

Correct. This is inline with my thoughts and what I said which is the bigger the tank, the bigger the duty cycle.

Except it's the longer the duration, the duty cycle remains the same.
Say you need 100 cuft, the compressor puts out 10 CFM. That means the compressor will need to run for 10 minutes. On time = 10.

Now say your hose flows 5 CFM. That means when the compressor is on you have a 5 CFM surplus, when off you have a 5 CFM drain.

For simplicity, let's just say tank capacity is defined by the amount of air to go from the turn on point of the compressor to the turn off.

A 10 CFM tank takes 2 minutes to fill and 2 minutes to drain.
A 20 CFM tank takes 4 minutes to fill and 4 minutes to drain.

In both cases the duty cycle is 50% and is defined by outlet/compressor. However, the number of cycles and time between them is impacted by the tank size.

By extension, a really oversized tank will overheat a non-continuous rated compressor because it has a quasi-infinite CFM rate so duty = 100%.

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

The duty cycle of the compressor I bought? I don't know that the manufacturer even rates it, if they do, I don't know what it is. And it doesn't matter in my application, because I will never run it past 5 minutes in any given hour.

Right so thats important. 5 minutes in one shot? That works for me. I filled a F350 tire from 60-80 and it took 25 minutes. The compressor was hot and was about to quit. I had to shut it off for a long while to cool down before I did the other tire. If I can fill a CT tire from 10 to whatever-the-CT-max-is in 5 minutes. I am all in.

Again, Duty Cycle doesn't matter in this application unless you will be filling the tires on multiple vehicles, consecutively. Even then, the pause between hooking up to different vehicles would probably make duty cycle irrelevant on any compressor with enough volume capacity to be reasonable for the task at hand. Just buy a compressor that has enough volume capacity to fill them in one go.

Yeah it doesn't matter as long as you don't have the experience that I did above. If its 25 minutes and hot, well then it matters big time. If it's 4 minutes, hey, I love it. Gimme the link to your compressor! I'll take it!

If I said addding a tank changes the duty cycle of a compressor, I mispoke. I meant the runtime would be longer, the duty cycle is a rating of the compressor itself, and doesn't change depending upon whether there is a tank involved.

If a tank is added or a larger on is added, the physical duty cycle time decreases. It's an inverse relation. Google it yourself. That is established. Duty cycle is the rating on the compressor, for how long it can operate before it starts seeing problems. The tank added changes the duty cycle after getting to a certain pressure (i.e. more than the tire pressure) which gives the motor a break.

That said, there are different duty cycle ratings for different pressures (the duty cycle rating is shorter at higher tank pressures).

EXACTLY! Thus, Duty cycle will lower at larger tanks with the same pressure. That has been established. and what are we arguing about again?

Because people like you, but with more money, will pay extra for that! Haha! Seriously, it sounds like something that might be needed if your 12V compressor is mounted in a hot engine bay, and is cycling on/off due to excessive heat. That will allow you to keep filling each tire even as the compressor shuts off. A marginal benefit in a different application than what we were discussing. something we don't have to worry about because our compressor won't be mounted in a hot engine bay. Duh. Do you really think it's going to overheat in 4 minutes?

Answer: no.

Thus why I was asking the duty time on your compressor. Yeah "rich folks like me" will buy a $600 compressor (ARB) for 4 tires when we off-road because the compressors needed are darned near 100% duty cycle... for *8* tires or more. My Walmart special for emergency use overheats at 25 minutes... big difference, no? Are you arguing just because it's fun? Why would I buy an ARB for a CT unless I was going off-roading with it in Red Rock country?

The smaller the tank size, the higher the duty cycle your compressor needs to be for a given continuous flow rate. Yes.

I already said this. Many times. The duty cycle is lower WITH a tank vs without one. and what are we arguing for? Oh wait... because:

If I said addding a tank changes the duty cycle of a compressor, I mispoke.

Had you not misspoke... we wouldn't be here wasting everyone's time, especially mine and yours.

The reason that's not applicable here is because we are filling all four tires in one short but continuous runtime that is within the capability of the compressor. Duty cycle doesn't even enter into it as long as the compressor is sized so it can complete the fill in one run without overheating.

NO! We are here because we want to fill *1* tire.. The flat. Read the OPs post. read my response. I want a cheap compressor that is durable and won't heat up because it takes 25 minutes to fill the CT tire. Does your compressor do 1 tire in only 4 minutes from 10 psi? Yes? GREAT! Give us all the link! That works! This compressor is for 1 tire for emergencies. Thats what I want it for. If I want it for all 4, I will get a 100% duty cycle like an ARB and pay up.

The compressor will not shut off due to an overheat condition until the tires reach their target pressure, due to the high flow rate into all four tires simultaneously. The tires are like one large compressor air tank, you don't need two. You turn on the compressor, it fills up this large air tank up to 50 psi (or whatever yur target pressure is) and then you shut it off.

Not true. The duty cycle is how long they can run for under pressure. The overheat condition can happen on a single tire but be a big tire. Ask me how I know.

The MorrFlate style filling system leverages low pressures to fill all the tires faster. The compressor is never at a higher working pressure than what's in the tires at any given moment (ignoring the small pressure differential caused by friction in the hoses and valves). That's how it can fill them so fast without using a tank, the lower average working pressure reduces heat generation because compressors run more efficiently at lower pressures. When you use a tank you have to run the compressor at higher average pressures, because the tank cutoff pressure has to be considerably higher than the maximum tire pressure. That's because there is a pressure differential between the pressure at which the compressor turns on and the cut-off pressure. And the difference between the cut-off pressure and the differential pressure must be higher than your tire target pressure or the compressor will not bring your tire up to the desired pressure (without adjusting either the cutoff pressure higher or reducing the pressure differential). And there is a limit as to how small the pressure differential can be.

All of this works great when using pneumatic tools, but it's far from ideal for simply filling tires up in the field.

I dont need to fill up 4 tires for crying out loud. It's 1 tire!!! If I need 4 tires, I will buy the ARB!

Yes. Because you can't seem to admit that you don't know what you are talking about, even to yourself.

Dude... I have been very clear and everything I have said it 100% correct. But I will tell you... again:

If I said addding a tank changes the duty cycle of a compressor, I mispoke.

I appreciate your misspoken statement. Had you not, we wouldn't be here, no.... like this could have been done several posts back?

 

[future_yas]

Rivian doesn't come with a spare. It costs extra. You should compare the prices and get back to us so you can show us how overpriced Tesla must be.

Most buyers don't want a spare, maybe because they know plugging a puncture is easier and faster, and doesn't involve jacking the vehicle.

Yes, R1T requires you to buy the All-Terrain package for $3,950 which adds the spare tire but the good thing is that it neatly fits in the bed trunk. Plus this package gets you all-terrain tires, reenforced underbody shield, and air compressor and two Gear Guard cable anchors.

Honestly, I'm much more annoyed that there's no place to put the spare in the Cybertruck except the bed than paying extra for it. It's so capable off-road with front and rear lockers. Punctures off-road aren't usually pluggable, you end up hitting sharp rocks and take out your sidewalls so a spare time is a must.

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

Except it's the longer the duration, the duty cycle remains the same.
Say you need 100 cuft, the compressor puts out 10 CFM. That means the compressor will need to run for 10 minutes. On time = 10.

Now say your hose flows 5 CFM. That means when the compressor is on you have a 5 CFM surplus, when off you have a 5 CFM drain.

For simplicity, let's just say tank capacity is defined by the amount of air to go from the turn on point of the compressor to the turn off.

A 10 CFM tank takes 2 minutes to fill and 2 minutes to drain.
A 20 CFM tank takes 4 minutes to fill and 4 minutes to drain.

In both cases the duty cycle is 50% and is defined by outlet/compressor. However, the number of cycles and time between them is impacted by the tank size.

By extension, a really oversized tank will overheat a non-continuous rated compressor because it has a quasi-infinite CFM rate so duty = 100%.

Agreed fully and I think we mostly agree with one slight difference. The run time is the same no matter the tank size (over the length of the fill)...The CFM is the same. The duty cycle can change if you add on tanks. The reason is the motor can take a break. The bigger the tank, the bigger the break. That said... if you have a tank that is 30 gallons, you may hit the duty cycle of the motor before it gets there, so it gets complicated. If it's 2-6 gallons, you may not and it can cool off a bit. The definition of duty cycle is "the cycle of operation of a machine or other device which operates intermittently rather than continuously.". The duty cycle of the compressor means it can run for X amount of time before it needs a break. Adding in a tank gives it a break (if you pressurize it higher than the tire). Unless it's too big. Run time over the course of time is not at issue. It comes down to "Can I blow up a tire in a reasonable amount of time without hitting the duty cycle". A 1 gallon tank can help that to a degree. 2 gallons even more. A Walmart special... maybe not.

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

Duty cycle matters when it's tuned to filling a bicycle or car tire instead of a truck tire,

-Crissa

YES!!!!!!!!! This is EXACTLY what I have been saying.

 

[mongo]

Agreed fully and I think we mostly agree with one slight difference. The run time is the same no matter the tank size (over the length of the fill)...The CFM is the same. The duty cycle can change if you add on tanks. The reason is the motor can take a break. The bigger the tank, the bigger the break. That said... if you have a tank that is 30 gallons, you may hit the duty cycle of the motor before it gets there, so it gets complicated. If it's 2-6 gallons, you may not and it can cool off a bit. The definition of duty cycle is "the cycle of operation of a machine or other device which operates intermittently rather than continuously.". The duty cycle of the compressor means it can run for X amount of time before it needs a break. Adding in a tank gives it a break (if you pressurize it higher than the tire). Unless it's too big. Run time over the course of time is not at issue. It comes down to "Can I blow up a tire in a reasonable amount of time without hitting the duty cycle". A 1 gallon tank can help that to a degree. 2 gallons even more. A Walmart special... maybe not.

What I call duty cycle is on time/ total time, but some sites refer to max on time as duty cycle.
10 minutes on 20 minutes off is a 33% duty cycle. So is 1 hour on 2 off, but that will cook a non-continuous duty unit.

A larger tank takes longer to fill and to empty so both the on time and off time increase proportionately. Like you mention, too large a tank will cause it to exceed the max on time.

If the tank is prefilled and the compressor specifically does not refill it at the end, it reduces the required compressor run time, but that's different from typical operation.

 

[HaulingAss]

Yes, R1T requires you to buy the All-Terrain package for $3,950 which adds the spare tire but the good thing is that it neatly fits in the bed trunk. Plus this package gets you all-terrain tires, reenforced underbody shield, and air compressor and two Gear Guard cable anchors.

Honestly, I'm much more annoyed that there's no place to put the spare in the Cybertruck except the bed than paying extra for it. It's so capable off-road with front and rear lockers. Punctures off-road aren't usually pluggable, you end up hitting sharp rocks and take out your sidewalls so a spare time is a must.

Ummm, the Rivian bed is less than 19" deep, and loading/unloading requires a higher lift, due to the way they packaged a silly spare under the bed. I have an undermount spare in my F-150, it's been there 15 years since I bought the truck new. Never needed it. What a waste. I carry a plug kit, never needed that either, but it doesn't weigh 100 lbs., it doesn't cost over $1000, and it doesn't require jacking the vehicle and removing and replacing the tires to fix a regular puncture!

You can put a spare in the Cybertruck bed (if you don't sleep well without one) and the Cybertruck bed still has far more room for cargo than the Rivian bed and a lower bed height to boot. I'm amazed at how much people think they are willing to give up just to carry around a pacifier spare with them. Most of them don't even carry a simple plug kit, which is far more useful if you run over the same hazard with both tires on one side of the vehicle. Their spare is then useless because they now have two flats!

Try doing this with a Rivian and then complain to me how the spare you think you need makes the bed too small and Rivian did it right:

 

[HaulingAss]

Right so thats important. 5 minutes in one shot? That works for me. I filled a F350 tire from 60-80 and it took 25 minutes. The compressor was hot and was about to quit. I had to shut it off for a long while to cool down before I did the other tire. If I can fill a CT tire from 10 to whatever-the-CT-max-is in 5 minutes. I am all in.

I'm done trying to help you, you are not spending the time to understand what I wrote, and you are a bad combination of ignorant and arrogant.

I'm more than willing to help non-arrogant people who want to learn but I'm done with you. Maybe @mongo has the stomach to bring you up to speed. If so, he is a saint.

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

Thank you Mongo. Maybe he will believe you. He likes to tell me (and a couple other unnamed persons) that we are wrong. And no matter how carefully it's explained to him, he is incapable of ever coming around.

Edit: Hallelujah! It looks like it worked!

Haha it worked. NOT!

@HaulingAss you have multiple instances of getting called out for BS. This is another one dude. Every link that gets posted proving you wrong, you make some excuse "Well thats written by some young kid" or "They don't know what they are talking about". For once you said you "misspoke" which unfortunately was the crux of where this all went. Lick your wounds and go away. Accountability FTW!

I'm done trying to help you, you are not spending the time to understand what I wrote, and you are a bad combination of ignorant and arrogant.

I'm more than willing to help non-arrogant people who want to learn but I'm done with you. Maybe @mongo has the stomach to bring you up to speed. If so, he is a saint.

Wow... and name calling too...

 

[HaulingAss]

Yes, R1T requires you to buy the All-Terrain package for $3,950 which adds the spare tire but the good thing is that it neatly fits in the bed trunk.

If you just want the 20" All-Terrain Spare tire kit Rivian charges you $1,250-$1,510, depending upon whether you want the light or dark all-terrain wheels. The $1,510 version is more comparable to the spare Tesla sells for the Cybertruck.

Punctures off-road aren't usually pluggable, you end up hitting sharp rocks and take out your sidewalls so a spare time is a must.

Most off-road punctures are due to careless or ignorant people who air their tires down far more than needed or advisable for conditions. I had three flats during the same overland journey, all of them were easily pluggable. But I was ignorant about plugs back then and carried a spare. It took the a lot of uneccessary time and driving to get those three punctures patched, on three different days, at remote rural tire shops. If two of the flats happened consecutively, before we could get to the tire shop, we would have been immobile in the wilderness because we didn't know about tire plugs yet. Some people don't have fun unless they break things, get flat tires, etc. and their choices when it comes to air pressures seem to encourage this.These are the people who should probably bring a spare tire or two AND a plug kit (and know how to use it).

I prefer to use knowledge to avoid unrepairable flats. Use appropriate and damage resistant tires too. It can save you the compromises of carrying a spare tire everywhere. Get a plug kit and know how to use it. Spare tires are good for people who decide they need that extra bit of rock performance that only a less durable tire aired down to silly low pressures can provide. Most of us don't run tires like that and don't need to air down that far, this our risk is far lower.

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