Cybertruck trailering explained

[firsttruck]

I agree but a bug should not be pulling anything really. Just because something can pull it does not mean it should. Certainly not a camper. It also has the engine in the rear so that would be a ton of weight on the rear axle I agree. I could pull a semi trailer with my truck. But braking and handling the load or handling cross winds is different. I just think the weight on the front axle would cause steering issues. When braking the weight would also shift towards the front even more. The CT could probably handle it. I just don’t think it’s the optimal thing to do.

Except for needing clearance for the sail panel, the Cybertruck should be just as capable of Fifth Wheel / Gooseneck towing as the ICE Ford F-150/RAM 1500/GMC-Chevy 1500.

An auto-sliding 5th wheel hitch or even a auto-sliding king pin box on the trailer might help with cabin/bed clearance issues.


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Do I Need a Sliding Fifth Wheel Hitch? This video helps clear the mud on fifth wheel hitches. You will learn the difference between a standard fifth wheel hitch and a sliding fifth wheel hitch, and what hitch is needed for your application.
Feb 25, 2020
How RVs Work

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Pullrite SuperGlide, the best solution for short bed and super-short bed fifth wheel towing!

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RAM trucks are so tall, the bed sides and trailer king pin, you need to mount hitch use lowest setting.


Demco Hijacker Autoslide 5th wheel: a quick look after 30 months
I really like this 5th wheel hitch. After using a manual slide and making a turn just a little too sharp, I put a nice dent right in the cab corner of our 2002 Dodge Cummins. Made me sick. After buying the 2017 RAM and going through the hassles of a manual slider, a super slider or auto slider was in order.
Dec 17, 2019
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[Hunter71294]

Except for needing clearance for the sail panel , the Cybertruck should be just as capable of Fifth Wheel / Gooseneck towing as the ICE Ford F-150.


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Do I Need a Sliding Fifth Wheel Hitch? This video helps clear the mud on fifth wheel hitches. You will learn the difference between a standard fifth wheel hitch and a sliding fifth wheel hitch, and what hitch is needed for your application.
Feb 25, 2020
How RVs Work

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----------------------------------


Pullrite SuperGlide, the best solution for short bed and super-short bed fifth wheel towing!

------



----------------------------------

RAM trucks are so tall you need to mount hitch use lowest setting.


Demco Hijacker Autoslide 5th wheel: a quick look after 30 months
I really like this 5th wheel hitch. After using a manual slide and making a turn just a little too sharp, I put a nice dent right in the cab corner of our 2002 Dodge Cummins. Made me sick. After buying the 2017 RAM and going through the hassles of a manual slider, a super slider or auto slider was in order.
Dec 17, 2019
PM Tips

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F-150 ‘s don’t have goosenecks/ fifth wheels. I’ve seen it twice in my life. Can be done. But probably shouldn’t be done. That being said if Elon does what he said I think the CT will be more capable than the F-150 in everything except range/ speed of “filling up”.

 

[Ogre]

Didn’t mean to start yet another trailering debate. I just thought the bug trailer was a weird match for Cybertruck.

I suspect cybertruck will be fine for towing and whatnot but waiting until it’s out.

 

[Crissa]

F-150 ‘s don’t have goosenecks/ fifth wheels. I’ve seen it twice in my life. Can be done. But probably shouldn’t be done. That being said if Elon does what he said I think the CT will be more capable than the F-150 in everything except range/ speed of “filling up”.

It definitely isn't something that shouldn't be done. What shouldn't be done is overloading the hitch no matter the size of the engine and suspension.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

Didn’t mean to start yet another trailering debate. I just thought the bug trailer was a weird match for Cybertruck.

I suspect cybertruck will be fine for towing and whatnot but waiting until it’s out.

Somebody posted that bug trailer here a while ago.

Adding height to a RV type trailer is counter productive, because it adds drag, you're better off having a pop up camper that fits behind the CT instead. Together with a load distribution and extending hitch, and CTs 4WS will make this one of the best towing setups.

 

[firsttruck]

F-150 ‘s don’t have goosenecks/ fifth wheels. I’ve seen it twice in my life. Can be done. But probably shouldn’t be done. That being said if Elon does what he said I think the CT will be more capable than the F-150 in everything except range/ speed of “filling up”.

Maybe that was true in the past but now Ford seems to disagree with you about 5th wheel towing capability of ICE F-150.

Several of 2021-2023 ICE F-150 models (cab config, engine, 4WD, bed length, payload) support 5th wheel towing capability up to 14,000lbs.

On most ICE F-150/1500 type trucks the payload is the limiting factor more than the trailer weight.
The Cybertruck has an advantage in the payload (3,500lbs) compared to F-150/1500 type trucks


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What is the towing capacity of the F-150 EcoBoost 5th wheel?
14,000 lbs. Max towing of 14,000 lbs. available on SuperCab 8' box 4x2 and SuperCrew® 4x2 configurations with the 3.5L EcoBoost engine and Max Trailer Tow Package (not shown).
2022 Ford F-150 Pickup Trailer Towing Selector
https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/conten...ions/3_2/2022_Ford_F150_Towing_Info_Oct20.pdf

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How big of an RV can a Ford F-150 tow?
The new Ford F-150 trucks can easily be equipped to tow a travel trailer, camper, or fifth wheel. The new lineup of F-150 trucks can tow between 5,000 pounds and 14,000 pounds when properly equipped, making it the ideal vehicle to tow a camper. Learn more at our dealership about how to set up your truck for towing.
Ford F-150 Towing Capacity, Chart & Comparison
Veterans Ford Tampa
https://veteransfordtampa.com/ford-f-150-towing-capacity

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Can F-150 really tow 14000 lbs?
With a 14,000-pound towing capacity, 3,250-pound payload capacity, and ten-speed automatic transmission, expect to haul to your heart's content.
The 3.5L EcoBoost outputs an impressive 400 horsepower and 500 pound-feet of torque. Find this engine available on the Lariat, King Ranch, Platinum, and Limited trims.
Ford F-150 Towing Capacity by Engine (2021 Update)
RiverBend Ford
https://www.riverbend-ford.com/research-f-150-towing.html

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[Deleted member 3316]

Didn’t mean to start yet another trailering debate. I just thought the bug trailer was a weird match for Cybertruck.

I suspect cybertruck will be fine for towing and whatnot but waiting until it’s out.

It’s super annoying when people over run a thread picking up some extraneous part that’s only vaguely related to the main topic.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Somebody posted that bug trailer here a while ago.

Adding height to a RV type trailer is counter productive, because it adds drag, you're better off having a pop up camper that fits behind the CT instead. Together with a load distribution and extending hitch, and CTs 4WS will make this one of the best towing setups.

it does depend on how it’s implemented, some people just don’t want a pop top.

 

[JBee]

it does depend on how it’s implemented, some people just don’t want a pop top.

There's heaps of solid sandwich panel wall pop-ups, that are superior to most rigid non popup RVs. Physically there is just no point to pull a mostly empty box, filled with air, behind an EV. There's better ways to design them, and having them compact down into a tow mode, doesn't mean they are worse when unfolded in camp mode for the consumer.

The point is that attaching to the roof of the CT is not helpful if you want your camper to fit snug, as a bug, in the CT slipstream.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

There's heaps of solid sandwich panel wall pop-ups, that are superior to most rigid non popular RVs. Physically there is just no point to pull a mostly empty box, filled with air, behind an EV. There's better ways to design them, and having them compact down into a tow mode, doesn't mean they are worse when unfolded in camp mode for the consumer.

The point is that attaching to the roof of the CT is not helpful if you want your camper to fit snug, as a bug, in the CT slipstream.

Come on JBee let a man dream… kicking the air horizontally over the vault does provide some aerodynamic benefits and not needing to unhitch, to back into a supercharger is gonna be awesome ?

I was thinking that the part over the vault could pop up so it follows the lines of the truck.

 

[firsttruck]

Come on JBee let a man dream… kicking the air horizontally over the vault does provide some aerodynamic benefits and not needing to unhitch, to back into a supercharger is gonna be awesome ?

Agree

Also mostly hollow RV trailers are not only 5th wheel/goose-neck trailers out there.
There are many 5th wheel/goose-neck commercial trailers for medium size jobs that are taller than the Cybertruck that are within Cybertruck's payload & tow capabilities.

Eliminating the cabin/bed to trailer gap by having the 5th wheel/goose-neck trailer aero-dynamic shape & Cybertruck aero-dynamic shape overlap might significantly increase range over a bumper ball hitch type setup that has a large gap between cabin/bed and trailer being at the end of the truck.

 

[JBee]

Come on JBee let a man dream… kicking the air horizontally over the vault does provide some aerodynamic benefits and not needing to unhitch, to back into a supercharger is gonna be awesome ?

You know why they're dreams and not reality right? ?

There's heaps of vehicles that have electronic reversing assist, and drivethru chargers will be a thing.

The best way to improve CT aero for towing is installing a bed canopy (like the Spacecamper) and having a extending trailer hitch, that pulls the trailer close when driving straight, and pushes it further away when turning. European trucks have been using these for decades.

With a pop up solid sidewall CT camper canopy you can also make an adjustable roof angle to accommodate all trailer and load heights, as required. Further the CT bed remains available for loading too, with an increased volume from the canopy. You don't have this with a 5th wheeler, and you don't need to have a high 5th wheeler to get over the CT sails, that we now know have the structural cast, which in turn makes aero worse overall.

Like this, even for a cargo trailer, a solid wall shoe box design will allow the operator to choose the desired trailer height depending on what they have loaded in the back at the time. Operationally, the trailer roof is put up electronically to allow full walk in height. Once the trailer is loaded the roof is lowered to the highest loaded item. Then the CT roof is adjusted to fit the trailer height. Then whilst you drive the automatic hitch extension pulls the trailer in close to the CT rear and roof, whilst driving straight forwards, and then extends out depending on the single of the hitch to the trailer, for both cornering and terrain changes. Technically you could even have the trailer roof pitch down in the rear, if the load allows you.

The other thing to consider is that even when down, the trailer will still be the same height as the CT roof apex, so around 1.7m (5.5ft) and can then extend up to 2.8-3m (10ft). So even down it would be a 6x2x1.5m=18cbm (635cft) and double that when up 36cbm (1279cft). This is the same footprint as the CT btw. Then, for RV use, because of the extra height gained from the pop up solid sidewalls, you can even do a double storey layout design, with fixed overhead beds (-rooms) over full height living areas underneath, which doesn't need to change or be reconfigured between day and night use as is common in that size.

The only way to dynamically adjust your cargo or trailer requirements to the load, is by having a trailer that adapts in volume as well. That way you don't transport "air" from one location to another, and in doing so have to displace more "air" in the form of aerodynamics that causes drag and reduces range, especially in EV's that are even more drag sensitive.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Transporting unnecessary air does seem to be wasteful so a collapsible solution is likely a good solution for many use cases.

There’s always different ways to do things though. Just depends on your priorities.
The Harmon Shadow, roof mount trailer simplifies quite a few challenges. I agree a 5th wheel hitch complicates things a lot.

Having a hitch just behind the apex of the roof (dead centre to wheel base) would enable laminar flow over the top of the gooseneck and an inflatable skirt in the void between the vault and the trailer would reduce turbulent drag. As you say a solid wall pop top is going to solve for a multitude of issues.

Whilst probably effective, the complexity of a space camper plus a retractable hitch just seems expensive to me. I kinda like having the truck look stock most of the time. Bolting on a roof hitch would be less effort than a tray camper.

None of the YouTube videos that have the Harmon Shadow roof mount discuss towing characteristics. I do wonder if it would better, worse, or just different. Worst case I imagine it would invoke or exacerbate understeer.

 

[firsttruck]

Transporting unnecessary air does seem to be wasteful so a collapsible solution is likely a good solution for many use cases.

There’s always different ways to do things though. Just depends on your priorities.
The Harmon Shadow, roof mount trailer simplifies quite a few challenges. I agree a 5th wheel hitch complicates things a lot.

Having a hitch just behind the apex of the roof (dead centre to wheel base) would enable laminar flow over the top of the gooseneck and an inflatable skirt in the void between the vault and the trailer would reduce turbulent drag. As you say a solid wall pop top is going to solve for a multitude of issues.

Whilst probably effective, the complexity of a space camper plus a retractable hitch just seems expensive to me. I kinda like having the truck look stock most of the time. Bolting on a roof hitch would be less effort than a tray camper.

None of the YouTube videos that have the Harmon Shadow roof mount discuss towing characteristics. I do wonder if it would better, worse, or just different. Worst case I imagine it would invoke or exacerbate understeer.

With the Cybertruck the goose-neck ball hitch might be on a frame above the vault/bed cover and mounted to the Cybertruck rack/sail-pillar mount points instead of being mounted to the Cybertruck' roof.


The stress on roof disadvantage of the 1970s Harmon Shadow goose-neck hitch with aerodynamic trailer might not apply to the Cybertruck yet still gain the benefits of reduced sway and increased range from a better aerodynamic silhouette.

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1970s Harmon Shadow | RV Flashback
Most bizarre trailer I've ever seen. From Let's Make A Deal circa mid 1970's.
1970s Harmon Shadow 5th Wheel with 360 degree swivel hitch
May 12, 2009

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Harmon Shadow roof mount hitch - Think you need a truck to tow a fifth-wheel trailer?
06/14/2013
By Kurt Ernst of Hemmings Motor News
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2013/06/14/think-you-need-a-truck-to-tow-a-fifth-wheel-trailer

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Fifth-wheel travel trailers can offer up many advantages compared to their more conventionally towed counterparts, but chief among them is resistance to the phenomena known as "sway." As we explained in our Skills 101 article on towing a trailer, sway can be caused by excessive speed, improper trailer loading or even the currents of air created by passing tractor-trailers; fifth-wheel trailers are resistant to sway since the hitch is (generally) located over the rear wheels and not far behind them.

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In the early 1970s, Harmon Industries introduced a travel trailer it called the Shadow. Meant to deliver the advantages of a fifth wheel trailer without the potential drawback of having to buy a pickup truck as a tow vehicle, the Harmon Shadow required buyers to mount a purpose-built receiver and ball assembly atop the roof of their car. This mated with the corresponding high-mounted trailer hitch, giving buyers an incredible amount of stability and maneuverability.

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Using a Volkswagen Beetle as a tow vehicle (not something we'd recommend), Shadow owners could pirouette a full 360 degrees, making backing the trailer into a tight parking space a snap (assuming a spotter was used to correct for the driver's total lack of visibility).

At the height of their (brief) popularity, Shadow trailers came in sizes ranging from 18 to 27 feet in length, offering camping solutions for families and budgets of all sizes.

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Meet the 1971 Harmon Shadow Gooseneck Trailer, “The Most Beautiful Trailer in the World”
19 Jul 2022
By: Elena Gorgan
Photos: From Colton Graham on Facebook
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...st-beautiful-trailer-in-the-world-193881.html

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The Shadow trailer was “by far the most sensible, safest, and most comfortable way to travel!” according to brochures at the time. Its highest selling point, though, was the fact that it didn’t attach to the towing vehicle in the traditional way but through the roof hitch. Like the El Chico designed for the Volkswagen Beetle that would come three years later, the Shadow boasted the ability to allow the towing vehicle a 360-degree turning ratio. Somewhat like El Chico, with which it’s often and mistakenly identified with, the Shadow burst onto the scene as a truly revolutionary RV – and then just as quickly disappeared.

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As fancy as these options were, they had nothing on the roof-mounted tow hitch. Harmon Industries claimed it did away with the risk of jackknifing, thus increasing safety, and improved car performance and gas mileage, because the trailer sat closer to the towing car than a regular one. The Shadow had electric over-hydraulic brakes and an aerodynamic silhouette that “substantially reduced” drag, so it was easy to operate whether on the highway or in tight camping spots.

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The Shadow was, in short, RV perfection – at least on paper. The reality was that, on the road, it placed too much stress on the roof of the towing vehicle, causing irreparable damage. Early buyers found out that the patented steel plate wasn’t removable as advertised. Or that the rear wheels of the towing vehicle would lift off the ground in case of sudden braking. Or that the entire roof would be torn off in the same scenario. Or that the trailer would tip on turns or in high winds because of the high gravity center. Life-threatening stuff, you know.

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[Deleted member 3316]

Yep, that’s the one. That shot of it bouncing along behind the car on a field was epic!

That last paragraph around handling would be resolved with modern suspension and a trailer brake.

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