Does Ford Have an EV demand issue?

[Coolbreeze704]

WOW, Ford just gave away the farm. Hope they can survive this long term. This just helps the bull case for Optimus in factories.

https://www.teslarati.com/ford-uaw-20-pay-raises-offer/

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[SparkChaser]

This is the result of decades of increasing profits, executive pay and the crushing of the working people. Bankruptcy and 2008 have all been used as weapons against the working people. In this brief moment of favorable circumstance, the labor force has a small advantage. The time to catch up and capture some of the productivity increases that workers make possible is now.

 

[davelloydbrown]

This is the result of decades of increasing profits, executive pay and the crushing of the working people. Bankruptcy and 2008 have all been used as weapons against the working people. In this brief moment of favorable circumstance, the labor force has a small advantage. The time to catch up and capture some of the productivity increases that workers make possible is now.

Ford didn't go bankrupt in the 2008-2009 recession. As Elon points out, Ford and Tesla are the only NA car company's that haven't gone bankrupt. BTW as a GM shareholder I lost 4-5 k when GM went bankrupt and taxpayers bailed them out to save union jobs.

 

[firsttruck]

Ford didn't go bankrupt in the 2008-2009 recession. As Elon points out, Ford and Tesla are the only NA car company's that haven't gone bankrupt. BTW as a GM shareholder I lost 4-5 k when GM went bankrupt and taxpayers bailed them out to save union jobs.

Yes, Ford did not go bankrupt but they did get a sizeable low interest loan from the government.

Are you saying they really did not need that loan and were just taking advantage of the situation to pad profits and executive pay even tho there were many other desperate business.

 

[Crissa]

WOW, Ford just gave away the farm. Hope they can survive this long term. This just helps the bull case for Optimus in factories.

https://www.teslarati.com/ford-uaw-20-pay-raises-offer/

Ford's profits and ceo compensation packages went up higher than the wages they were asking for, and over twice what this deal is for.

The Union took a pay cut in 2009 onwards - they're just asking for their share of the profits.

The company is not negotiating in good faith.

-Crissa

 

[SparkChaser]

Ford didn't go bankrupt in the 2008-2009 recession. As Elon points out, Ford and Tesla are the only NA car company's that haven't gone bankrupt. BTW as a GM shareholder I lost 4-5 k when GM went bankrupt and taxpayers bailed them out to save union jobs.

Agreed Ford did not go bankrupt, but it did use the bankruptcy of the other manufactures to reduce and hold back wages. Business since the new deal has been hammering on labor costs. One moment in the decades of wage stagnation, and benefit reduction due to off shoring and automation, that labor has this small advantage will not come close to capturing the increases in profits and productivity that labor has provided.
In the long term it is automation that will continue to reduce the work force and increase the concentration of wealth in the executive and shareholding class. This is the beginning of that fight. When automation improves and there is no need to manufacturing by humans what do you thin will happen then? Dickensian principles of "reduce the surplus population" will be right back with us.
Look at the history of the long shoreman for an education on how automation eliminated thousands of jobs. Some say for the better, but those in the middle of losing their livelihood have a different opinion. Just wait until AI starts taking white collar jobs by the millions. Same principle.

 

[davelloydbrown]

Agreed Ford did not go bankrupt, but it did use the bankruptcy of the other manufactures to reduce and hold back wages. Business since the new deal has been hammering on labor costs. One moment in the decades of wage stagnation, and benefit reduction due to off shoring and automation, that labor has this small advantage will not come close to capturing the increases in profits and productivity that labor has provided.
In the long term it is automation that will continue to reduce the work force and increase the concentration of wealth in the executive and shareholding class. This is the beginning of that fight. When automation improves and there is no need to manufacturing by humans what do you thin will happen then? Dickensian principles of "reduce the surplus population" will be right back with us.
Look at the history of the long shoreman for an education on how automation eliminated thousands of jobs. Some say for the better, but those in the middle of losing their livelihood have a different opinion. Just wait until AI starts taking white collar jobs by the millions. Same principle.

In the early part of the last century, manufacturing jobs, even those with unions did not pay well. It was Henry Ford who increased the pay of the people making cars because he saw that the workers in his factories needed a good salary inorder to buy his cars.

Growing up in an area in Canada where there were lots of car manufacturing jobs in the 60's and 70's, you had it made if you got a job working in an car plant. You made more money and had better benefits than people who spent years in university and were able to buy homes in the seventies before the prices took off in the 80's. Many of these employees were given early retirement when times were tough in the 80's and were able to retire in their 50's and collect inflation indexed pensions for decades.

In the future, if Elon has his way cars will be made like dinky toys with large metal castings and manufactured almost completely by robots- either fixed or mobile. If fact if FSD pans out, most people living in cities won't even own cars as they will be the property of the car manufacturers who just sell rides at the cost of bus fare.

Where people will work at that point I have no idea, mostly computer engineers I guess like my kids.

 

[SparkChaser]

In the early part of the last century, manufacturing jobs, even those with unions did not pay well. It was Henry Ford who increased the pay of the people making cars because he saw that the workers in his factories needed a good salary inorder to buy his cars.

Growing up in an area in Canada where there were lots of car manufacturing jobs in the 60's and 70's, you had it made if you got a job working in an car plant. You made more money and had better benefits than people who spent years in university and were able to buy homes in the seventies before the prices took off in the 80's. Many of these employees were given early retirement when times were tough in the 80's and were able to retire in their 50's and collect inflation indexed pensions for decades.

In the future, if Elon has his way cars will be made like dinky toys with large metal castings and manufactured almost completely by robots- either fixed or mobile. If fact if FSD pans out, most people living in cities won't even own cars as they will be the property of the car manufacturers who just sell rides at the cost of bus fare.

Where people will work at that point I have no idea, mostly computer engineers I guess like my kids.

And when AI takes those jobs?
It may not take all jobs but it will take many. And with time it will most likely increase.

 

[davelloydbrown]

And when AI takes those jobs?
It may not take all jobs but it will take many. And with time it will most likely increase.

If you believe Elon, by that time there will probably be a population collapse and hopefully they will have figured out a government paid minimum income for everyone.

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