Elon: "We got a whole bunch of Cybertruck pre-production units that you can check out" (@ Engineering HQ Event)

[Cybertruckee]

Will this be open to the public at any point?

Eventually if the employees who tested them did not exercise their purchase-option.

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[Cybertruckee]

It's a smart decision for Tesla. Look at the current market for great AI engineers, where else is a greater place to recruit. Engineers will jump ship to work for the best company for the future, all other so call tech company will belly up eventually, not all survive. On the other hand, I am glad Elon gave many hints to keep us exciting about the CT.

Unfortunately, Elon does not have a very good reputation in the Silicon Valley and among software engineers.

My own son left Tesla because of the dysfunctional culture, slave-driver and dictatorial Elon and the lack of life-work balance that he might end up breaking his own family whom he is seeing less and less even on weekends.

 

[JBee]

That's false, there is no significant amount of stereo depth perception at distances greater than about 5 feet. Human eyes are too close together (less than 3 inches seperation) for this to be a factor beyond a few feet. Depth perception at distances greater than that is synthetically generated by the brain using various clues like vanishing points of straight lines, shadows and haze and the relative sizes of various objects. That's why you can percieve depth even on a flat screen TV.

Maybe on your face. My face has a huge nose between my eyes...

The eyes focus out to a few meters, this alone contributes to depth perception, even with one eye. But the point is, your eyes have to refocus on the screen and then to the road, which takes half a second, where you don't see properly, whereas on a mirror they don't. That's why HUD is better than screen. (Yes I said it)

Your screen analogy is not quite right, because if you put on 3D glasses with a compatible TV, only then do you have stereoscopic depth perception, by having more than one point of view.

That's how I see it anyway...

 

[HaulingAss]

Maybe on your face. My face has a huge nose between my eyes...

The eyes focus out to a few meters, this alone contributes to depth perception, even with one eye. But the point is, your eyes have to refocus on the screen and then to the road, which takes half a second, where you don't see properly, whereas on a mirror they don't. That's why HUD is better than screen. (Yes I said it)

Your screen analogy is not quite right, because if you put on 3D glasses with a compatible TV, only then do you have stereoscopic depth perception, by having more than one point of view.

That's how I see it anyway...

Yes, there is the perception of depth at a distance but it is not due to the stereo effect.

The refocusing from a near screen to far is a real disadvantage of a screen vs. a mirror but it can be minimized the further the screen is from the viewer.

I'm not saying a screen is the functional equivalent of a mirror, I'm saying there is no significant depth clues past a small number of feet that is due to the stereo effect. A screen has some disadvantages, but it also has some real advantages, things that a mirror cannot replicate.

 

[JBee]

Unfortunately, Elon does not have a very good reputation in the Silicon Valley and among software engineers.

My own son left Tesla because of the dysfunctional culture, slave-driver and dictatorial Elon and the lack of life-worka balance that he might end up breaking his own family whom he is seeing less and less even on weekends.

Sounds like his priorities didn't align with the company. Nothing wrong with that, just find a company that fits your lifestyle better. Just don't expect the company, that is on a expedited mission to sustainablility to change to fit your lifestyle.

If you want a family, have a family and put in the hours you need for your family first. Just don't expect anyone to wait 20 years to raise your kids before your job gets done.

 

[ÆCIII]

That's false, there is no significant amount of stereo depth perception at distances greater than about 5 feet. Human eyes are too close together (less than 3 inches seperation) for this to be a factor beyond a few feet. Depth perception at distances greater than that is synthetically generated by the brain using various clues like vanishing points of straight lines, shadows and haze and the relative sizes of various objects. That's why you can percieve depth even on a flat screen TV.

Actually Not False.

Convergence is the aspect of binocular sight I was referring to, and this works for humans up to distances of about 10 meters (32 feet is a lot more than 5 feet). Many vehicles approaching the blind spots in adjacent lanes are much closer than that, so if used properly distance perception in mirrors may be useful to avoid an impending collision by a vehicle close behind in an adjacent lane.

Aside from binocular convergence, distance perception is a real thing way beyond five feet, although it may not be convergence or stereo based. How else would you explain basketball players hitting from the free-throw line or making three-point shots? You can't without acknowledging at least some depth perception.

I get what you're saying about other clues on a screen, but the diminished resolution on screens often reduces the effective depth perception, and we instead are just interpolating the likely distance of familiar objects of which we happen to know their size. However, on the highways and roads with so many vehicles, this is not ever going to be a reliable option. Therefore I maintain that real time convergence depth perception will often be important to respond to other drivers or avoid accidents in many situations.

- ÆCIII

 

[HaulingAss]

Unfortunately, Elon does not have a very good reputation in the Silicon Valley and among software engineers.

That must be why Tesla and SpaceX are consistently #1 and #2 first choices of places to work for engineering graduates from the top schools in the world.

My own son left Tesla because of the dysfunctional culture, slave-driver and dictatorial Elon and the lack of life-work balance that he might end up breaking his own family whom he is seeing less and less even on weekends.

A lot of job seekers are put off by the hard-work culture at Tesla. They tend to be the less driven individuals who want the paycheck but not the hard work. I know a few college graduates who fit into that profile (don't want to work in such a demanding environment). Less talented individuals can and do regularly get chewed up and spit out of such a demanding environment.

That is largely what explains the ability of Musk companies to achieve so many "impossible" things, they end up with the best of the best. And that is who I want working on the vehicles I spend my money on. I was less than enthralled with many of the design decisions on my 2010 F-150, largely because Ford does not have the same work culture.

 

[HaulingAss]

Actually Not False.

Convergence is the aspect of binocular sight I was referring to, and this works for humans up to distances of about 10 meters (32 feet is a lot more than 5 feet). Many vehicles approaching the blind spots in adjacent lanes are much closer than that, so if used properly distance perception in mirrors may be useful to avoid an impending collision by a vehicle close behind in an adjacent lane.

Aside from binocular convergence, distance perception is a real thing way beyond five feet, or else how would you explain basketball players hitting from the free-throw line or making three-point shots? You can't without acknowledging depth perception.

- ÆCIII

I didn't say there is not depth perception beyond several feet, I said it's not due to binocular displacement. Do you have a citation for this effect beyond several feet? What do you think is the distance limit for effective binocular depth perception?

 

[Cybertruckee]

That must be why Tesla and SpaceX are consistently #1 and #2 first choices of places to work for engineering graduates from the top schools in the world.



A lot of job seekers are put off by the hard-work culture at Tesla. They tend to be the less driven individuals who want the paycheck but not the hard work. I know a few college graduates who fit into that profile (don't want to work in such a demanding environment). Less talented individuals can and do regularly get chewed up and spit out of such a demanding environment.

That is largely what explains the ability of Musk companies to achieve so many "impossible" things, they end up with the best of the best. And that is who I want working on the vehicles I spend my money on. I was less than enthralled with many of the design decisions on my 2010 F-150, largely because Ford does not have the same work culture.

And the highest turn-over even for senior executives.

You just insulted my son who choose a lower pay against paying the price of a family break up.

Not sure where you find the high horse to judge others as "not willing to put the hard work" when they barely see their family because they'll also be called midnights and weekends because Elon decided to change a process and design that he already approved previously after long analysis and simulations.

 

[JBee]

Yes, there is the perception of depth at a distance but it is not due to the stereo effect.

The refocusing from a near screen to far is a real disadvantage of a screen vs. a mirror but it can be minimized the further the screen is from the viewer.

I'm not saying a screen is the functional equivalent of a mirror, I'm saying there is no significant depth clues past a small number of feet that is due to the stereo effect. A screen has some disadvantages, but it also has some real advantages, things that a mirror cannot replicate.

I haven't got any imperial data atm, whilst laying in bed looking at the stars in the Milky Way, but it seems to me the viewpoint diffential between the eyes has more range than a few feet, rather at least several yards.

I can agree the effect gets stronger the closer it gets to my nose, at which point my nose making contact gives it a whole other dimension and I see everything double.

I think that the depth perception is helped by the parallax of all items in the field of view including the close ones (even our nose) as it offers a frame of reference to calculate distance from in relation to how things move to eachother. This is in part that we percieve in active motion, and not static images, such as displayed from a single camera viewpoint that is fixed on the vehicle.

 

[HaulingAss]

And the highest turn-over even for senior executives.

You just insulted my son who choose a lower pay against paying the price of a family break up.

Not sure where you find the high horse to judge others as "not willing to put the hard work" when they barely see their family because they'll also be called midnights and weekends because Elon decided to change a process and design that he already approved previously after long analysis and simulations.

I'm not making value judgements on the work/life balance - that's something that every individual will have to make for themselves. What I am saying is that the hardest working and most driven engineers are the ones that are not scared off from extra demanding work environments.

If you were insulted by my observations, that's on you.

 

[Throwcomputer]

And the highest turn-over even for senior executives.

You just insulted my son who choose a lower pay against paying the price of a family break up.

Not sure where you find the high horse to judge others as "not willing to put the hard work" when they barely see their family because they'll also be called midnights and weekends because Elon decided to change a process and design that he already approved previously after long analysis and simulations.

Unfortunately, Our culture is full of this myth that people are lazy because they want a work/life balance, or are whiny crybabies because they want higher pay instead of salaries that are drastically less than the equivalent 40 years ago. Its simply a refusal to acknowledge and accept that there is a clear shift in attitudes towards sacrificing your life and well being for your jobs when most industries have fought against paying people what they are worth today, instead of 40 years ago.

Any reasonable person couldn't blame the cultural attitudes toward work for shifting in such a way. It also makes sense that those who fight against this cultural shift are those who are near the ends of their professional lives and have been the few to see actual wage increases in their professional lives over the same amount of time. They don't have the real world experiences that anyone who came into the professional world since the early 90s has lived through, hence.. can't make the connection.

 

[Gurule92]

Unfortunately, Our culture is full of this myth that people are lazy because they want a work/life balance, or are whiny crybabies because they want higher pay instead of salaries that are drastically less than the equivalent 40 years ago. Its simply a refusal to acknowledge and accept that there is a clear shift in attitudes towards sacrificing your life and well being for your jobs when most industries have fought against paying people what they are worth today, instead of 40 years ago.

Any reasonable person couldn't blame the cultural attitudes toward work for shifting in such a way. It also makes sense that those who fight against this cultural shift are those who are near the ends of their professional lives and have been the few to see actual wage increases in their professional lives over the same amount of time. They don't have the real world experiences that anyone who came into the professional world since the early 90s has lived through, hence.. can't make the connection.

I think this is your most reasonable post ever

 

[Cybertruckee]

Unfortunately, Our culture is full of this myth that people are lazy because they want a work/life balance, or are whiny crybabies because they want higher pay instead of salaries that are drastically less than the equivalent 40 years ago. Its simply a refusal to acknowledge and accept that there is a clear shift in attitudes towards sacrificing your life and well being for your jobs when most industries have fought against paying people what they are worth today, instead of 40 years ago.

Any reasonable person couldn't blame the cultural attitudes toward work for shifting in such a way.

Very well put!

And just based to Twitter's latest experience with Elon, on how employees can be discarded like a used tampon just because these high-and-mighty made the wrong decision.

 

[Throwcomputer]

I think this is your most reasonable post ever

I'm not an idiot. I just play one on TV.

BTW, to elaborate on the original point... I have what one could consider a pretty good salary for today, being a decent bit higher than the current average salary in the US, and when you translate that back to value 40+ years ago and compare it to the average house price then... its exactly half the average cost of a house back then. My current salary is approx 1/3 the average cost of a house today depending on where you buy. Not even close to 1/3 of a house in my area. And its not for lack of trying, or lack of skill. So I have sympathy for the average worker today.

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