F150 Lightning Prices leaked . CyberTruck pricing seems much more competitive now

[Hootie]

Ouch. Where is it leaked?

-Crissa

This was emailed as a survey to F150 reservation holders. I put a reservation in as a back up and got this survey. It confirms it is out of my price point. I am capping myself at the dual motor trim of the CT and the comparable F150 IMO is the Lariat with 300mile range, leather, etc. so it priced itself out for me.

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[electricAK]

Let me get this straight...
To get a Lightning with 300mi of range and only *some* of the nice features that come standard on all of the Cybertrucks, I will have to pay $79,500? (assuming the $7500 credit goes away soon)

Those of us with CT reservations are extremely lucky. The Lightning is way less truck and it costs so much more.

The best thing the Lightning has going for it is that the Cybertruck wait list is five years long.

 

[John K]

I recently rolled up in a small town with my lifted truck, 22s and low profile tires.

All the looks told me they were impressed.

 

[Dirt Worker]

Some people don't want a different design. Those are the ones choosing the Ford and GM. Back in the 70s and 80s Detroit had a wakeup call when they lost market shares to manufacturers with different ideas. Just as the VW bug, Porsche and my baby the Corvair (65' Corsa Turbo) had no radiator grill and people thought they looked odd

I am impatiently waiting for my CT. If the option is available, I will be flying to Texas, camping at the factory, and waiting at the end of the assembly line with a stupid grin on my face.

 

[GnarlyDudeLive]

Let me get this straight...
To get a Lightning with 300mi of range and only *some* of the nice features that come standard on all of the Cybertrucks, I will have to pay $79,500? (assuming the $7500 credit goes away soon)

Those of us with CT reservations are extremely lucky. The Lightning is way less truck and it costs so much more.

The best thing the Lightning has going for it is that the Cybertruck wait list is five years long.

I wouldn't be so sure that Ford is going to be pumping out the Lightning in mass volume, those folks may very well be waiting as long as some of us for the CT. Ford will likely have more constraints on batteries, etc than Tesla even does with so little vertical integration.

 

[BillyGee]

Let me get this straight...
To get a Lightning with 300mi of range and only *some* of the nice features that come standard on all of the Cybertrucks, I will have to pay $79,500? (assuming the $7500 credit goes away soon)

And yet every old dude I've talked to in my field swears ford is going to crush Tesla any day now. Nevermind that they can't even get the batteries they need for their vehicles.

 

[CyberMoose]

I would rather wait till 2025 to get a Cybertruck, even if I could buy a lightning tomorrow. Luckily I should have my CT by next year, winter would already be pretty wait but still completely worth the wait.

If my truck died tomorrow, I'd just use a uhaul rental truck for when I need a truck, or if I needed a truck everyday, I'd probably find a truck that 10 or so years old in working condition and just sell that when my CT arrives.

If I had to choose a Ford. I'd probably just not buy the Lightning. It doesn't seem like it's going to be worth it with that range for me. I don't need 500+ miles of range usually, but since my range would be shorter than that anyway, I would only be using 60-70% of the batter, I live in Canada so winter will reduce the range more, and then I have to account for the battery degradation. I'd probably be left with well under 150 miles of range. Since I want an electric truck to be my daily driver, I really can't buy something that might require me to charge on my way to visit friends a few towns over. With the Cybertruck, I can make that trip in pretty much any weather conditions and then with just a short charge with a level 2 charger, I'd easily make it back home too.

 

[braddibbnd]

Unless they can pass new legislation to expand EV credits, by the time they get pass 40,000 of the 70,000 reservations they have, the tax credit will expire. Ford is selling over 10,000 Mach E in a month currently. By the time the Lightning is rolling out to dealers next spring(if they are on time), Mach E should have around 140,000?? of the 200,000 limit on the street. No Federal tax credit will only push more customers to the Cybertruck.
Ford needs to have dedicated customers in the future. The F series pickups are estimated to be 85-90% of Ford profit.

 

[CyberMoose]

Unless they can pass new legislation to expand EV credits, by the time they get pass 40,000 of the 70,000 reservations they have, the tax credit will expire. Ford is selling over 10,000 Mach E in a month currently. By the time the Lightning is rolling out to dealers next spring(if they are on time), Mach E should have around 140,000?? of the 200,000 limit on the street. No Federal tax credit will only push more customers to the Cybertruck.
Ford needs to have dedicated customers in the future. The F series pickups are estimated to be 85-90% of Ford profit.

Given the market share that Ford has for truck sales in North America despite all the jokes about Ford, I'd say they have a pretty loyal fan base. The real question is will Ford be able to keep their popularity with the Lightning. Someone who barely has a need for a pickup or long range will probably love to show off their truck to their friends. I just don't know how the Lightning would judged by a contractor, in a northern state/Canada, that has to haul their equipment and tools around, when the 300 miles range has a usable range of lets say 10-80% is probably closer to around 100-125 miles depending how much they have to haul around. That could be a bit annoying for people if they have a longer commute.

 

[Diehard]

Given the market share that Ford has for truck sales in North America despite all the jokes about Ford, I'd say they have a pretty loyal fan base. The real question is will Ford be able to keep their popularity with the Lightning. Someone who barely has a need for a pickup or long range will probably love to show off their truck to their friends. I just don't know how the Lightning would judged by a contractor, in a northern state/Canada, that has to haul their equipment and tools around, when the 300 miles range has a usable range of lets say 10-80% is probably closer to around 100-125 miles depending how much they have to haul around. That could be a bit annoying for people if they have a longer commute.

To be fair most folks that need to tow/drive long distance regularly probably wouldn't be looking at an EV truck with today's tech and charging infrastructure anyway. However there are still a lot of people that use trucks but their commutes are within the range you mentioned. At this point even if that is a small fraction of F150 buyers, it would be just fine for Ford. There are so many truck buyers that rarely use the truckiness of a truck that all manufacturers can sell EV trucks to the limits of their capacity before battery tech catches up with the need for the real truck users (I am not one of them).

 

[Pappy]

There are so many post stating the Cybertruck has, this or that, over the Lightning, has someone out there actually seen the production model? Is everyone absolutely positive the Cybertruck will provide more range than the Lightning? Why is Elon so quiet on the REAL version of the CT. I know what we all seen and placed reservations on, but, that’s not the truck we’re going to get. And, IMO. that’s not the price your going to pay. Model 3 Tesla’s are NOT setting on the lots for what the internet says they cost (if you find one show me the sticker). Currently, Tesla has no tax incentives and Ford is just over 130k in sales on EV’s so, will they loose that price advantage before the production model Lightning hits the market? One company can boast they have the best selling truck for over 40 years and one can boast they’ve been building and best selling EV’s for over 10 years (EV’s not trucks). I’ve been driving Fords for decades and I kinda know, and what to expect, I know absolutely nothing about Tesla and I can’t seem to find Tesla owners bragging about their vehicles anywhere. I’d like for all you Tesla owners please tell us how happy you are with your vehicles???? How much did you actually pay and what is your Cost of Ownership on that vehicle?
I’m truly interested and I wanna know what really is the truth about EV’s.

Pappy

 

[CyberMoose]

There are so many post stating the Cybertruck has, this or that, over the Lightning, has someone out there actually seen the production model? Is everyone absolutely positive the Cybertruck will provide more range than the Lightning? Why is Elon so quiet on the REAL version of the CT. I know what we all seen and placed reservations on, but, that’s not the truck we’re going to get. And, IMO. that’s not the price your going to pay. Model 3 Tesla’s are NOT setting on the lots for what the internet says they cost (if you find one show me the sticker). Currently, Tesla has no tax incentives and Ford is just over 130k in sales on EV’s so, will they loose that price advantage before the production model Lightning hits the market? One company can boast they have the best selling truck for over 40 years and one can boast they’ve been building and best selling EV’s for over 10 years (EV’s not trucks). I’ve been driving Fords for decades and I kinda know, and what to expect, I know absolutely nothing about Tesla and I can’t seem to find Tesla owners bragging about their vehicles anywhere. I’d like for all you Tesla owners please tell us how happy you are with your vehicles???? How much did you actually pay and what is your Cost of Ownership on that vehicle?
I’m truly interested and I wanna know what really is the truth about EV’s.

Pappy

So first of all, you are right, we don't have absolute confirmation on the CT. However Tesla doesn't lie about the expected specs of their vehicles. If they say they will give the longest range, they do. If they say they will make the fastest car ever, they have. The only thing that gets exaggerated is the FSD software which is still amazing.

On the other hand. We also don't know about the Lightning. People are trusting that they will get 300 miles of range when Ford says 300 miles. We are going off of Teslas claims about the Cybertruck over Fords claims about the Lightning.

As for people bragging about Teslas...I don't know where you are looking but i've probably seen over 100 videos on youtube in the past 10 years about people getting their first Tesla. I've seen hundreds of videos on the Software. And I've seen at least dozens about features and just cool things the Tesla can do. There is no shortage of Tesla Hype. Now when it comes to videos like that between Tesla and Ford, i'm sure you'll find lots. But there are a lot of things that a Tesla can do that a Ford can't, while the only thing that Ford has over Tesla right now that I can think of is they have trucks and Tesla is bringing that out...oh and the Mach-E has a drain hole in the frunk, that's like the one cool thing I hope Tesla takes from Ford so I can fill it with Ice and drinks for the beach.

Now of course there are also videos of people complaining about their Tesla, like how models that were delivered before had panel gaps and paint issues. But i've also seen a lot of complaints from Ford owners that were more than just cosmetic faults.

 

[firsttruck]

There are so many post stating the Cybertruck has, this or that, over the Lightning, has someone out there actually seen the production model? Is everyone absolutely positive the Cybertruck will provide more range than the Lightning? Why is Elon so quiet on the REAL version of the CT. I know what we all seen and placed reservations on, but, that’s not the truck we’re going to get. And, IMO. that’s not the price your going to pay.

The F-150 Lightning is not shipping today either. The delivery of F-150 Lightning is a year away. You have no guarantee on price either.

Currently, Tesla has no tax incentives and Ford is just over 130k in sales on EV’s so, will they loose that price advantage before the production model Lightning hits the market?

Since F-150 Lightning is a year a way and Ford has other EVs it is shipping today.
There maybe no Federal EV incentives for most F-150 Lightning buyers either.
In addition the current Federal EV incentive is against taxes paid so there will be many F-150 Lightning buyers who receive less than $7,500.

One company can boast they have the best selling truck for over 40 years and one can boast they’ve been building and best selling EV’s for over 10 years (EV’s not trucks).
Pappy

Ford has 40 years of name F-150. Just like the over 40 year "Mustang" name tells you nothing. The truck today probably has 0 parts the same as 40 years ago. The bed is aluminum instead of the thick steel of 40 years ago. Now aluminum body panels dents much easier than 40 years ago. Is today F-150 ICE as durable as the model made 40 years ago?

The heart of a truck is
1. drive-train
2. cooling system
3. suspension & body.
4. Total cost of ownership

with EVs there is one more
5. DC Fast charging network

Ford does not have 40 years or even 1 year of modern EV truck experience. The last EV truck Ford did was over 20 years ago and that was not a full-size truck.

So there is very little data relevant to whether Ford will do a good job on full-size EV truck.
The closest data point we have is 2021 Mustang Mach-e and so far the Ford vehicle does not even equal 2017 Tesla Model 3.

2021 Mustang Mach-e vs 2017 Tesla Model 3.

1. drive-train (motors, battery, motor controllers, charger). 2017 Tesla Model 3. better

2. cooling system. Mustang Mach-e is a mess. 2017 Tesla better. 2021 Tesla excellent.

3. suspension & body. 2021 Mustang Mach-e vs 2017 Tesla Model 3. is OK.
Ford truck is painted aluminum vs Cybertruck dent-resistant cold-rolled stainless steel.

4. Total cost of ownership. 2021 Mustang Mach-e vs 2021 Tesla Model 3/Y. Tesla win.
Projection for Ford F-150 Lightning vs Tesla Cybertruck
Cybertruck cost less for similar capabilities.
Just based on the physics of aerodynamics, the Cybertruck should use less energy.
Cybertruck has much better payload & towing weight limits so haul bigger truck loads (fewer trips needed).
Standard Cybertruck has more covered & lockable storage.
Base Cybertruck includes 240V outlet to power tools or home. F-150 Lightning does not.
Ford truck is dentable/scratchable painted aluminum with regular glass vs Cybertruck dent-resistant cold-rolled stainless steel & armor glass.

5. DC Fast charging network. Ford network is a mess. Less than 2017 Tesla network.
Ford has had EVs since 2012 but still invested very little in charging network. Even today Ford talks a lot but little action (investment). Tesla network is best in the world and Tesla still invests more every year in U.S. than maybe all U.S. vehicle makers combined.
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Months before the Focus Electric went on sale (2011?), Ford’s chief executive Alan Mulally was downplaying the viability of EVs. “The infrastructure is just not there yet,” Mulally told Newsweek, from the sidelines of the 2012 Detroit Auto Show.
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Ford has done nothing significant in the past 10 years to resolve charging infrastructure.
Even years ago when Tesla was tiny compared to GM & Ford, Tesla was making huge investments in charging infrastructure.


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Ford Electric Cars: Past, Present and Future
Jan 22, 2019
By: Bradley Berman
https://insideevs.com/features/342330/ford-electric-cars-past-present-and-future/

.....
2013 - 2018 Ford Focus Electric
Ford unveiled its Focus Electric at the 2009 Frankfurt Motor Show. Using the Focus platform was a logical choice. Auto critics consistently pointed to the Focus as one of the most attractive small cars on the road. The EV variant, which went into production by 2011, used a 23 kilowatt-hour battery pack officially rated to provide 76 miles of range.

When it was introduced, the Focus Electric was the only pure EV that looked and drove like a so-called normal car. That was a welcome relief from geeky EV designs like the first-generation Nissan LEAF and Mitsubishi i-MiEV. Also, the Focus was fun to drive. The 134-horsepower motor provided decent zip. The liquid-cooled battery management system ensured consistent year-round range and battery life.

The big drawback with the Ford Focus Electric was lack of cargo space. As a gas car converted to run on electricity, the main battery pack was packaged under the liftgate reducing hatch cargo space by 39 percent, to just 14.5 cubic feet.

.....
2013 - 2018 Ford C-Max Hybrid (Plug-in Hybrid)
In 2013, complaints and lawsuits emerged about the C-Max Hybrid not achieving its advertised 47-mpg EPA rating. Ford downgraded its fuel-economy rating of the hybrid to 40 on the highway – lowering it a second time in 2014.


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One company can boast they have the best selling truck for over 40 years and one can boast they’ve been building and best selling EV’s for over 10 years (EV’s not trucks). I’ve been driving Fords for decades and I kinda know, and what to expect, ...

Ford has over 25 years of experience with modern EVs.

There is little relevant & current objective data about Ford F-150 Lightning EV indicating it will be even equal to Cybertruck and Ford 's history would suggest that Ford EV will come up short.

If decision is based on recent & relevant objective data there is none to suggest that 2022 Ford is suddenly going to even equal 2022 Tesla despite Ford having many more years of experience making EVs.

 

[Alan]

There are so many post stating the Cybertruck has, this or that, over the Lightning, has someone out there actually seen the production model? Is everyone absolutely positive the Cybertruck will provide more range than the Lightning? Why is Elon so quiet on the REAL version of the CT. I know what we all seen and placed reservations on, but, that’s not the truck we’re going to get. And, IMO. that’s not the price your going to pay. Model 3 Tesla’s are NOT setting on the lots for what the internet says they cost (if you find one show me the sticker). Currently, Tesla has no tax incentives and Ford is just over 130k in sales on EV’s so, will they loose that price advantage before the production model Lightning hits the market? One company can boast they have the best selling truck for over 40 years and one can boast they’ve been building and best selling EV’s for over 10 years (EV’s not trucks). I’ve been driving Fords for decades and I kinda know, and what to expect, I know absolutely nothing about Tesla and I can’t seem to find Tesla owners bragging about their vehicles anywhere. I’d like for all you Tesla owners please tell us how happy you are with your vehicles???? How much did you actually pay and what is your Cost of Ownership on that vehicle?
I’m truly interested and I wanna know what really is the truth about EV’s.

Pappy

We have had our model S for 4 yrs now. It’s one of the few purchases that just keeps getting better. You pay exactly what the configuration says you will pay when you order it online. It‘s a five thousand pound car that will beat anything on the road but another Tesla. It’s by far the smoothest car you will ever drive. It’s more like a computer on wheels that keeps getting better with software updates. For the price of a gallon of gas we get about 105 miles. It’s just a completely different driving experience, no vibrations , silent pure acceleration. I smile every time I get in it.

 

[Pappy]

We have had our model S for 4 yrs now. It’s one of the few purchases that just keeps getting better. You pay exactly what the configuration says you will pay when you order it online. It‘s a five thousand pound car that will beat anything on the road but another Tesla. It’s by far the smoothest car you will ever drive. It’s more like a computer on wheels that keeps getting better with software updates. For the price of a gallon of gas we get about 105 miles. It’s just a completely different driving experience, no vibrations , silent pure acceleration. I smile every time I get in it.

WOW…. That’s the kind of info I’m looking for. Thank you so much. Keep on enjoying your Tesla.?

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