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One of the saddest things about the GM Hummer battery pack is that it's the pack they're designing other vehicles around for the next 5 years.

So right now it's behind Tesla battery packs from 4 years ago and it's going to be their go-to until atleast 2026.
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One of the saddest things about the GM Hummer battery pack is that it's the pack they're designing other vehicles around for the next 5 years.

So right now it's behind Tesla battery packs from 4 years ago and it's going to be their go-to until atleast 2026.
LOL. Not to worry. Mary says they are going to be caught up to Tesla by then. Think of that battery as using Texas logic. The bigger the better.
 

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One of the saddest things about the GM Hummer battery pack is that it's the pack they're designing other vehicles around for the next 5 years.

So right now it's behind Tesla battery packs from 4 years ago and it's going to be their go-to until atleast 2026.
I think it was Munro who suggested Tesla was 8+ years ahead of everyone else.

Its super hard to know exactly how big the gap is, but this makes it clear it’s quite big.

You can pretty clearly see the fat battery at the bottom of the Hummer. No chance you could have that big a battery on the Cybertruck.

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Because having only one customer is big bad business. It means no matter how insane the demand, the supplier must bow to pressure from the buyer. That's how you get broken suppliers - from things like McDonald's ice cream machines to WalMart suppliers going belly up with the largest sales volume ever or NASA and military contractors raking it in and also missing deadline (and having factories where they don't make sense).

That's why I think it's more collaborative and the technology shared, so that Panasonic remains diverse and competitive.

-Crissa
is having only one customer bad if they buy everything you make?
 

Ogre

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is having only one customer bad if they buy everything you make?
Often.

They really have you over a barrel at that point. Often it’s a symptom of a buyer or seller with lopsided power and one ends up getting little to no profit while the other rakes it in.
 

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You can't out sale them if you have nothing to sell. Currently Tesla has nothing to sell.
Nor does Ford, GM, or apparently Rivian.

Right now there are less than 200 electric pickup trucks in existence. In 1 month there might be as many as… 500!!. Considering Rivian has told their Founders Edition customers to chill until Feb their start was more like a head fake.
 

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Right, the demand is going to severely outweigh the supply of EV trucks for several years.

Until then, I'm not sure people should put a lot of stock in # sales. Any EV truck that is not complete garbage is going to sell out and have a waitlist, but that does not really equate to a winner in my mind.
 

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Right, the demand is going to severely outweigh the supply of EV trucks for several years.

Until then, I'm not sure people should put a lot of stock in # sales. Any EV truck that is not complete garbage is going to sell out and have a waitlist, but that does not really equate to a winner in my mind.
The winner will be the first vendor to release to customers more trucks than the competition with the combined highest # of remaining reservations *plus* whatever that same competitor has also released. There is your first winner.

This would demonstrate the agility and sourcing to produce vehicles and the demand for them vs their competitors.
 
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Ogre

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Right, the demand is going to severely outweigh the supply of EV trucks for several years.

Until then, I'm not sure people should put a lot of stock in # sales. Any EV truck that is not complete garbage is going to sell out and have a waitlist, but that does not really equate to a winner in my mind.
There is more to it then that.

They have to make money on the trucks they sell. And they have to be able to make enough to make a difference.

Rivian selling trucks at $80k is not super interesting because they will never hit enough volume at that price to make an impact. Likewise, the Hummer at $110,000 or even $85k is not really interesting or practical.

That’s why to me the F150 and the Cybertruck are the real “players” in this market.
 
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Crissa

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Right now there are less than 200 electric pickup trucks in existence.
Oh, there's more than that, there's the EV Rangers from years past and those Chinese trucks and all those NEV trucks and there was a Japanese EV kei truck... and almost two hundred Rivians ^-^

-Crissa
 

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Covers the case for rear-wheel steering expanding the market for the Cybertruck,
Full Self Driving as a value add (even for renters)
Etc.

It's been awhile since we saw him!

-Crissa
(Carrying a motorcycle is one of my use cases! A truck will make traveling with my EV motorcycle easy.)
Batteries and charging or discharging has always been the hardest problem to solve. There have been great improvements and there will need to be more before an EV will be viable. I am confident that this issue will be resolved hopefully sooner than later.
 

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Elon has said that Tesla’s long term advantage is manufacturing. Tesla will be able to get more batteries, which is the limiting factor, and will be able to out produce Ford and Rivian for the foreseeable future.
 

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Batteries and charging or discharging has always been the hardest problem to solve. There have been great improvements and there will need to be more before an EV will be viable. I am confident that this issue will be resolved hopefully sooner than later.
"Viable"? What you're saying is that you don't think EVs are viable yet. Am I getting that right? You don't think there is confidence in our currently available EVs. Ok.

So would I be crazy to tell you how over-the-top happy, ecstatic really, we are with our two EVs now? We have a Tesla Model 3 and a Nissan Leif that we've already owned for a few years? I can't wait for my CT! I'm just really excited about it. I know it will blow away so much smoke when it's released on day 1. Just glad I'm in the first 1/10 of reservations. But also ordered a Model Y for a friend to use a few days ago. Can't wait to see how happy she will be with it.

What would make you think that EVs are not yet viable?
 

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is having only one customer bad if they buy everything you make?
NO but not customer at fault. The only bad customer Tesla has proven to be, is maybe on Panasonic’s co-development insistence. Interestingly, GM laughed at the engineering hubris of Tesla to sell a battery with 1000’s of connections by using 18650’s.

Panasonic only had one buyer that wanted 18650 cells to begin with - Tesla. Hence, the co-development partnership which Tesla structured to its purposes. Panasonic have their “chemistry”. Panasonic seem to have been rewarded sufficiently to remain in GigaNEVADA.

AND Tesla seems to have disproven GM sufficiently that its on a 3 generation cell battery scheme - 4680. Tesla have also moved-on to Li sourcing, cell design and manufacture.

Last laughs are the sweetest!
 
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