John from Cleanerwatt - "The initial pricing of the CyberTruck will be $90,000 - $120,000"

[cvalue13]

The tri-motor was $69,900 and production was to start late in 2021, so if you want to play this game use these numbers. Then it is $75,250. Even that isn’t correct because the end of 2021 is really 2022 and then your calculator says the price is almost unchanged. Very interesting.

I’m not ‘playing a game,’ nor was the post intended to be the entirety of any concerted discussion

But flesh it out only one more double-click:

when thinking about CT pricing, it sometimes seems people’s minds and value judgments are keyed to a 2019 mindset. Maybe I’m wrong.

But to the extent people’s context for the CT pricing is locked into some 2019 mindset, they say in effect “because in 2019 expected to pay $69.9, anyone believing the top trim CT could could be near $100K is asinine”

the $79K I meant to be a price I think people (I don’t think) would blink at for a top tier trim level. and to the extent they accept a $79K top trim price but their thinking is stuck in 2019, $91K is the new $79K

I’m not saying $100K is right or likely. I’m only saying that I don’t know how anyone asserts with such contempt and Ferber that anyone worried about it being $100K in 2023 dollars is being so unreasonable as to be labeled asinine

not taking any position on what the price will be. But noting just one way that it’s not asinine that someone could *worry*about it within reason

just the same, I think it’s not crazy, but rather optimistic, for someone like yourself to think that in 2019 Tesla’s unveil prices were modeled on BOTH:

• 3X interest rates, and​

• what turned out to be the fastest increase in inflation in history the last century​

The only place I really come down is that anyone with pricing views so strident they feel comfortable expressing contempt with people having opposing opinions are probably deluding themselves into some view or another

Even if Tesla keeps the headline MSRP the same as 2019 unveil, Tesla is selling a FAR more expensive vehicle in real world terms (due to interest rates) with FAR less affordability (due to economic uncertainty) - that’s a challenge for Tesla mitigates towards keeping headline MSRP low

But meanwhile, the offerings in the CT have increased since 2019 (eg4w steer etc), inflation is higher than anyone could have rested their base case model upon, and - it seems - the early production ramp is making it “extremely difficult” to make - which are challenges for Tesla mitigating towards increasing MSRP

anyone that can look at the above playing field and walk away with the hubris to tell others that their pricing worries are asinine is being unreasonable

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[intimidator]

I genuinely don’t know what I will do if Tesla cannot deliver the range they unveiled at. I am fine if they start with a single or dual trim as they promised lower ranges for those trims, but they promised 500+ (read MINIMUM) and the one thing Tesla has never done is to underdeliver from an unveiling to a production vehicle. That alone would cause more damage to the brand than anything else.

I agree with you.

Back in 2019, I reserved the 500 mile range Tri-Motor, and never gave thought to Tesla NOT being able to deliver on the 500 mile range.

Of course 4680 battery development and production ramp has been a real alligator for Tesla, so I don't know how they get close to 500 miles without just stuffing in a 2000 lb battery pack.

IMO they have to spin the initial version they release somehow. "Here is our 2024 Dual-Motor with 375 miles of range at a starting price of $79,999" is not going to cut it amongst the 100,000s of reservation holders.

It will be interesting to see what they announce in Sept/Oct.

PS I drive a 2023 Ford Lighting with 320 range as I wait for my CT. Love it. Didn't love the price, and wish it had 400+ miles of range, but an EV pickup is a joy to use and drive. The CyberTruck has a lot of potential....DEPENDING ON PRICE.

 

[cvalue13]

PS I drive a 2023 Ford Lighting with 320 range as I wait for my CT. Love it. Didn't love the price, and wish it had 400+ miles of range, but an EV pickup is a joy to use and drive.

same, though mine’s a ‘22

the Lightning has only made me more excited for the CT, precisely because a BEV truck has been all-things-considered a net revelation

if it’s the right truck for your use cases, it’s lightyears beyond any ICE competition, and in ways both expected and unexpected

 

[HaulingAss]

IMO they have to spin the initial version they release somehow. "Here is our 2024 Dual-Motor with 375 miles of range at a starting price of $79,999" is not going to cut it amongst the 100,000s of reservation holders.

Oh man! I would buy that in a flash if it came with all the other cool stuff we have heard about as standard:

-Fully adjustable suspension on the fly
-3mm cold-roll hardened stainless steel exterior
-"MetalGlass" windshield that is super durable and acts as part of the chassis
-On-board compressed air
-On board 120V/240V outlets
-Superior manueverability in tight spaces due to 4-wheel steering
-3500 lbs. cargo capacity
-Standard cargo loading ramp
-Lightbar integrated into top of windshield out of airstream standard
-Standard motorized tonneau cover strong enough to stand on
-Full Supercharger Network access

I'll stop there but the value offered here is just incredible! If you have ever bought a new legacy truck you have seen how the price can go through the roof just adding a few "boring" options and with no ability to add most of the really cool stuff that will come standard on the Cybertruck.

PS I drive a 2023 Ford Lighting with 320 range as I wait for my CT. Love it. Didn't love the price, and wish it had 400+ miles of range, but an EV pickup is a joy to use and drive. The CyberTruck has a lot of potential....DEPENDING ON PRICE.

I see the bare-bones 2023 XLT Lightning with only 320 miles of EPA range costs $83K (assuming thousands are not tacked on because they are made in such low numbers). And the only thing it includes from the list above as standard are the 11 electrical outlets. You can't even add on the high cargo capacity (1800 lbs. limit is pretty low considering you have to count the occupants' weights). 5 guys could leave you with only 800-900 lbs. of remaining cargo capacity.

You can't add on a lightbar out of the windstream or fully adjustable suspension on the fly. Or metal glass windsheild. Or full Supercharger access. Or cold-roll hardened exterior shell without fragile paint. Or the superior handling.

In short, for more money than $79,995, you get a heavier, soft, fragile weak truck with less range, less cargo and towing capacity, inferior handling, no access to the Supercharger Network, and none of the cool Tesla only features.

If the dual-motor Cybertruck comes with the expected features and construction, the value offered would blow the Lightning out of the universe at only $79,995. But I doubt it will be that much for a dual motor version with more range than the Extended Range Lightning. We will see but I think any rational person will be shocked at the value offered by Cybertruck.

I expect the dual-motor to be priced significantly under the price of the Lightning and any level-headed truck buyer will see that it's actually priced $20-$30K less than the Lightning once the value of things like the super tough windshield and hardened shell and adjustable suspension ride height/loading/unloading are factored in. The Cybertruck will not even be comparable to a traditional truck.

If the Cybertruck is as expected, I would buy as many $79,995 dual motor Cybertrucks as I needed, as soon as I could get them due to the far superior value and the fact that the Cybertruck is far, far superior to any other truck built to date. Cybertruck moves automotive technology forward by a gigantic leap and will revolutionize, not only the capability of this class of truck, but also the efficiency of manufacture and how much value can be delivered to new truck buyers.

Watch and see. We don't have long to wait now.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I’m not ‘playing a game,’ nor was the post intended to be the entirety of any concerted discussion

But flesh it out only one more double-click:

when thinking about CT pricing, it sometimes seems people’s minds and value judgments are keyed to a 2019 mindset. Maybe I’m wrong.

But to the extent people’s context for the CT pricing is locked into some 2019 mindset, they say in effect “because in 2019 expected to pay $69.9, anyone believing the top trim CT could could be near $100K is asinine”

the $79K I meant to be a price I think people (I don’t think) would blink at for a top tier trim level. and to the extent they accept a $79K top trim price but their thinking is stuck in 2019, $91K is the new $79K

I’m not saying $100K is right or likely. I’m only saying that I don’t know how anyone asserts with such contempt and Ferber that anyone worried about it being $100K in 2023 dollars is being so unreasonable as to be labeled asinine




just the same, I think it’s not crazy, but rather optimistic, for someone like yourself to think that in 2019 Tesla’s unveil prices were modeled on BOTH:

​

• 3X interest rates, and​

​

• what turned out to be the fastest increase in inflation in history the last century​

The only place I really come down is that anyone with pricing views so strident they feel comfortable expressing contempt with people having opposing opinions are probably deluding themselves into some view or another

Even if Tesla keeps the headline MSRP the same as 2019 unveil, Tesla is selling a FAR more expensive vehicle in real world terms (due to interest rates) with FAR less affordability (due to economic uncertainty) - that’s a challenge for Tesla mitigates towards keeping headline MSRP low

But meanwhile, the offerings in the CT have increased since 2019 (eg4w steer etc), inflation is higher than anyone could have rested their base case model upon, and - it seems - the early production ramp is making it “extremely difficult” to make - which are challenges for Tesla mitigating towards increasing MSRP

anyone that can look at the above playing field and walk away with the hubris to tell others that their pricing worries are asinine is being unreasonable

I was only commenting on those exact numbers, the year, and the interest rate, and nothing preceding it.asI mentioned before, to me I am not certain how I would/will react to a price increase because, again to me, it is about the company; it’s stated policy of delivering better than promised and it’s integrity with its buyers.

 

[HaulingAss]

Back in 2019, I reserved the 500 mile range Tri-Motor, and never gave thought to Tesla NOT being able to deliver on the 500 mile range.

I'll be bummed if they have to push the 500+ mile range version into 2024 but such a staggered launch would not be the end of the world. I would rather buy a 300 plus mile version first, than get a 500+ mile range version that had been pushed out the door before the battery was fully vetted. There's a reason Tesla has a very strong track record with battery reliability relative to any other manufacturer.

Bleeding edge technology doesn't come without potential delays and snags. When it's ready, Tesla will release it. I don't see any other manufacturer beating (or even meeting) Tesla at their own game. The F-150 Lightning is a nice effort. But that's all it is, nice. Cybertruck will be superlative, like it comes from another planet. I'm particularly enthused with the possibility of it being equipped with the Brembo Sensify brake by wire system.

A 500-mile version at release would be the icing on the cake! A 300+ mile version will actually be the better truck, and the better value, for most use cases. It cannot be emphasised enough how fast the Supercharger network is growing and how quickly the newer units can pump big miles into a Cybertruck. There is quite an advantage not carrying another 40% battery weight around everywhere you go.

I've off-roaded my AWD Model 3 (stealth Performance) into some pretty steep and rugged remote terrain (rugged relative to the capabilities of the design), on a regular basis, and it's amazing how far an electric car can be "crawled" into steep mountains without running the battery down. At slow crawling speeds the thing can be driven all-day long and still have plenty to get back out. It's not like a gas car/truck where your gas tank just disappears as soon as the going gets steep and rugged and the speeds get down to nearly walking speed. Gas tanks do not get fuller on descents, they keep getting emptier. The electric drivetrain just loves this kind of silent crawling with the occasional scuff of a tire fighting for traction. The climbing ability of my AWD Model 3 and it's ability to just keep going on one charge is rather shocking. It's main limiting factor besides ground clearance is its lack of wheel articulation since its chassis is so rigid and suspension travel is very limited relative to the Cybertruck.

I bring this up so Cybertruck buyers who want maximum off-road capability don't buy a heavier, more expensive battery than they need. I would be tickled with a 350-mile EPA range for local off-roading and camping even though I plan to also buy a 500+ mile range for exploring far from home and the SC Network. The lighter weight of a 300 plus mile version will actually be a huge advantage, both in terms of on-road handling and off-road prowess, especially in soft ground situations (but also in hard-scrabble conditions).

 

[intimidator]

I'll be bummed if they have to push the 500+ mile range version into 2024 but such a staggered launch would not be the end of the world. I would rather buy a 300 plus mile version first, than get a 500+ mile range version that had been pushed out the door before the battery was fully vetted.

Since I don't expect many CTs built in 2023.....maybe only 5000 or so ....probably for employees...The 2024 model year to me is the first version.

Battery realities. NO ONE on planet earth currently has a lightweight, 500 mile range battery. Rivian now has a 400 mile range pickup....and the battery is heavy and huge. Lucid has managed to get to the 500 mile mark, but a lot of that has to do with the shape of the car, and a large heavy battery.

Since Tesla went all in on the 4680 battery for the Cybertruck, it will be interesting where they end up with range for the CT. I think it is too late to switch to a different battery supplier, but we shall see.

 

[HaulingAss]

Since I don't expect many CTs built in 2023.....maybe only 5000 or so ....probably for employees...The 2024 model year to me is the first version.

Battery realities. NO ONE on planet earth currently has a lightweight, 500 mile range battery. Rivian now has a 400 mile range pickup....and the battery is heavy and huge. Lucid has managed to get to the 500 mile mark, but a lot of that has to do with the shape of the car, and a large heavy battery.

Since Tesla went all in on the 4680 battery for the Cybertruck, it will be interesting where they end up with range for the CT. I think it is too late to switch to a different battery supplier, but we shall see.

Agreed. I think the design of the Cybertruck is married to the 4680 battery format so, ultimately, the 500-mile version is likely dependent upon Tesla's battery development and how fast it's been progressing. We have zero visibility into 4680 chemistries and production accomplishments beyond the relatively low energy density 4680 that has already been released in the TX Model Y because it's all being done on the side, behind closed doors. Tesla does not make an improved 4680 and instantly put it into a new version of the Model Y, it needs to be validated first.

The energy density and manufacturing efficiency are two different development tracks. Tesla has the current 4680 and are ramping it to higher production efficiency and higher yeilds. And you can bet they have been developing a higher energy density version on the side, that's the part we have zero visibility into. I would venture the development of that battery determines the timing and actual range of the longest range Cybertruck. I think many of the manufacturing learnings of the current chemistry 4680 will transfer directly to the new chemistry so there is hope this could all come together on schedule. All we can do is wait and see.

 

[Richard V.]

Off-roading to the extreme with a Tesla car. Nothing here was impossible really! WTF...
Now think of the CT and what it could do!

It will be a GOAT!

 

[Cyberostachu]

Yes, the SALES TAX is $3500 to $4000 when you register your CyberTruck at the DMV, and you also pay an EV Registration Tax of about $200.

Plus, yes after that you pay an annual PPTax on the vehicle. It would be about $4,500 the first year, slowly going down each year as the truck depreciates. Once your Cybertruck has depreciated to $50,000, you would "only" be paying $2,500 a year.

Conclusion: Cybertruck may just be for the rich.

 

[cvalue13]

Now think of the CT and what it could do!

like....

... just reverse?

even neutral would do

 

[intimidator]

Agreed. I think the design of the Cybertruck is married to the 4680 battery format so, ultimately, the 500-mile version is likely dependent upon Tesla's battery development and how fast it's been progressing. We have zero visibility into 4680 chemistries and production accomplishments beyond the relatively low energy density 4680 that has already been released in the TX Model Y

Remember Tesla's initial intent was when they finished Giga Texas and started building Model Ys at that factory they would all have the 4680s.

Obviously they had to change course and reverse back to building them with 2170s (as well as some with 4680s).

I hope, hope, they have made progress on the 4680 energy denisty and efficiency. We haven't even heard wee rumors about progress though.

 

[HaulingAss]

Remember Tesla's initial intent was when they finished Giga Texas and started building Model Ys at that factory they would all have the 4680s.

Obviously they had to change course and reverse back to building them with 2170s (as well as some with 4680s).

I hope, hope, they have made progress on the 4680 energy denisty and efficiency. We haven't even heard wee rumors about progress though.

Tesla is pretty good about keeping leaks to a minimum.We might not hear anything significant about a higher energy density 4680 until the cells are ready to ship.

 

[Trbizwiz]

Remember Tesla's initial intent was when they finished Giga Texas and started building Model Ys at that factory they would all have the 4680s.

Obviously they had to change course and reverse back to building them with 2170s (as well as some with 4680s).

I hope, hope, they have made progress on the 4680 energy density and efficiency. We haven't even heard wee rumors about progress though.

This comment is very underrated!!
4680's are the keys to production ramp and range, and probably cost. I assume Tesla developed the 4680, to be lower cost than 2170, and 18650. IF the 4680 energy density has not improved, there is no way it will be ready for Cybertruck. So Cybertruck may get 18650's like the X plaid, but maybe 30% larger. Or maybe they can make the 2170's work. Either way, it's likely they will put them in high output quad motors, to keep the cost high, and thus keep the preorder crowd patient, while they work out the 4680's. I think they must be close on the 4680's or they wouldn't be building the battery plant at Gigatx, and they wouldn't be installing 4680 lines in Berlin. I fear the 3rd quarter roll out may be like the TX Y roll out, and only to employees, and no pricing announced. None of those employees will post videos or anything and we are still left hanging.
On the other hand, they may not do that, because Cybertruck is the most recognizable vehicle int he world. the first owners should desire to be Kardashian level attention seekers, because they will be approached constantly.
So maybe the first releases will be quad motor, founder series, uber expensive, rare models, just to make us patient, and to make sure they aren't intended as daily drivers.

 

[intimidator]

This comment is very underrated!!

So maybe the first releases will be quad motor, founder series, uber expensive, rare models, just to make us patient, and to make sure they aren't intended as daily drivers.

Very good thought. That is what Tesla may have to do - initially. Sigh.

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