No 800v for Model 3/Y, but maybe for Cybertruck?

ajdelange

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As for sharing a common breaker, we pay for our own electricity but the owner pays for some utilities (flat fee to us) so it wouldn't be out of the question if he was able to position charging stations in common areas. He sees it as a feature that would benefit his renters. Is this something other landlords even think of????
The Tesla HPWC can communicate with each other through WiFi. I'm not sure how much of this has actually been implemented yet (simple sharing has) but if your landlord wanted to offer charging at a flat rate he can put individual chargers anywhere (i.e. in each individuals house/condo/appartment AS LONG AS THEY ARE ALL ON THE SAME WiFI NEWORK and share them.
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Crissa

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As for sharing a common breaker, we pay for our own electricity but the owner pays for some utilities (flat fee to us) so it wouldn't be out of the question if he was able to position charging stations in common areas. He sees it as a feature that would benefit his renters. Is this something other landlords even think of????
Oof, street parking. Well, that's what having shared breaker EVSE is good for. Some towns are into helping install them on streets, and units that can share breakers means that it's less of a problem that one isn't being used.

But no, most landlords are in the 'how long can I let this rot under my renters' mindset. I'd have loved a landlord who was looking to keep the place up to date.

-Crissa
 

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The Tesla HPWC can communicate with each other through WiFi. I'm not sure how much of this has actually been implemented yet (simple sharing has) but if your landlord wanted to offer charging at a flat rate he can put individual chargers anywhere (i.e. in each individuals house/condo/appartment AS LONG AS THEY ARE ALL ON THE SAME WiFI NEWORK and share them.
Good thing about Anacortes, WA, is we have city-owned fiber internet. I'm in the old part of town, the first to get it. It's been expanding throughout the city. $70/mo, gigabit speeds, no ISP. In my area, the fiber is attached to the utility poles. It would be easy to locate the primary fiber modem, then extend with generic WiFi routers. This part would be easy to implement. Locating charging stations would be a little tricky.
 

ajdelange

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I doubt very much that your land lord would want to do that. It is more probable that if you wanted to use this feature you could get around the 200A limitation by installing at your house two or more HPWC on individual 60A breakers. The inspector looking at your panel sees 120A of vehicle charging station on a 200A panel and his eyebrows go up until your electrician explains to him that these are Tesla EVSE programmed to share no more that 48 A between them.
 
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Crissa

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Locating charging stations would be a little tricky.
If they can dial home on the urban wifi, then they can tell a website which ones are being used and which have open spots. Some European companies are making street chargers that do this.

Been awhile since I've been up there. It's so pretty along the sound.

-Crissa
 


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That's why Porsche did use 900v. It's about getting the right balance of cells, equipment costs, and math.
Youtube presenter in AUS Viking URL:

In his video it states Tesla is software-defined. This is cool. In a build once use many idiom, Tesla hardware is 900v compliant simply verifying during handshake with its Charger what voltage it’s supplying and asking the car what it expects. BMS does the rest.

The batterypack mumbo must be the jumbo cluster of EE compromise at varying voltages. SO the real question is how smart is BMS, at what granularity and can it min/max cells? Minimize the compromises. Maximize the number of cells(read range).
 

ajdelange

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Tesla hardware is 900v compliant simply verifying during handshake with its Charger what voltage it’s supplying and asking the car what it expects.
No. Current Tesla architecture is 400V. If you intercepted the com link between a SC and a current Tesla and asked fo 900 V and the charger complied the battery would draw way too much current and its protective fuses would blow. The motors are designed for 400V. The insulation is suitable for 400 V. The semiconductors are 400V etc. As Musk noted in his recent presentation much redesign of hardware and software would be needed to change the architecture to an 800 V architecture and the cost of that would not be offset by the small gains in profitability that would result.
 

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Tesla hardware is 900v compliant simply verifying during handshake with its Charger what voltage it’s supplying and asking the car what it expects.
No. Current Tesla architecture is 400V.
I believe we have a typical misunderstanding based on people assuming vague terms. "Tesla Hardware" and "Tesla architecture" are vague terms because Tesla makes a lot of hardware etc. When I read @rr6013's post I assumed he meant Tesla Super Chargers when he said "Telsa hardware is 900v compliant..." the reason I made that assumption was that it makes sense in the context of the post.

@ajdelange's assumption that @rr6013 is wrong only makes sense if he assumed "Tesla hardware" (that he renamed Tesla Architecture) meant a current model Telsa EV. (Models S3XY).

Suggestions:
1. Try to use more specific terms.
2. If someone's post seems wrong to you, reread it and see if an assumption you are making could be wrong before assuming they are.

PS- I made some assumptions here. I could be wrong.
 

ajdelange

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In his video it states Tesla is software-defined. This is cool. In a build once use many idiom, Tesla hardware is 900v compliant simply verifying during handshake with its Charger what voltage it’s supplying and asking the car what it expects. BMS does the rest.
Yes, the contradictions here are plain. To beging with nothing was said about this in the video. It was about battery production by various manufacturers. In the second sentence it talks about handshaking with its charger which makes it sound like he's talking about a car and then in the same sentence he talks about asking the car what it expects which makes it sound as if he's talking about the car. And finalizes with a comment on the BMS which is in the car.

The thing I responded to was the fear that readers might think that the cars are capable of charging at 900V simply by sending a "go to 900V mode" command. That's not true. They are 400 V machines.

Now the chargers themselves, if they are CHarIN compatible, and I think they probably are if they are going to charge Lucids, will be capable of up to 920 V. The way charging works is that the charger tells the car the maximum the car can ask for and the car tells the charger how much voltage it wants. The charger delivers that voltage as long as it is within the charger's envelope. The car measures the current and if it wants more asks the charger to increase the voltage thereby "adjusting the voltage to control the current".

Now a V3 SC can deliver 250 kW to a 385 V battery which makes it clear that it can deliver more than the 500A which is the current limit of the CHarIN HPC350 envelope. Thus the V3 SC exceeds CHarIN spec in terms of current.

Suggestions:
I should have simply realized that the sentence in question contains internal contradictions that can't be resolved and either asked for clarification or ignored the whole thing. The important thing here IMO is that I want readers to understand that the current Tesla portfolio (no Roadster, CT or Semi) is 400V architecture and that it cannot be changed to 800 or 900V by changing a few lines of code as the post seems to suggest. Considerable hardware and software redesign would be required.
 
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Crissa

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Tesla's equipment does suggest higher abilities in the version 3 Supercharger. Which will be required to be CCS compatible, anyhow.

But the certifications are all local, and there are many revisions of the hardware, so it's hard for us to know.

And the voltage supplied by a Fast charger or Supercharger varies depending upon the battery pack and state of charge. Every battery has a different optimal charge curve, and modern thermally managed packs have multiple - which is why the charge curve supplied now changes based upon ambient and car internal temperatures.

-Crissa
 


TheLastStarfighter

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All the houses, duplexes and apartment have plenty of power to the house. I already discussed it with the owner who said it would be easy to run a conduit from my panel (North side of house) through the attic (accessible) to the south side where the charger could be placed. That's where I park. It would be a little tricky for most of the other houses since they use street parking.

As for sharing a common breaker, we pay for our own electricity but the owner pays for some utilities (flat fee to us) so it wouldn't be out of the question if he was able to position charging stations in common areas. He sees it as a feature that would benefit his renters. Is this something other landlords even think of????
I currently have one residential rental unit. My plan is to do a big Reno when I can afford it and add two more. At that point I also want to go fully solar, and have every unit with its own private garage with ev charging. It will cost a bit extra, but I think it’s worth it to get better tenants. I also think it’s the right thing to do, and keeps you future proof as gas get phased out.
 

ldjessee

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I currently have one residential rental unit. My plan is to do a big Reno when I can afford it and add two more. At that point I also want to go fully solar, and have every unit with its own private garage with ev charging. It will cost a bit extra, but I think it’s worth it to get better tenants. I also think it’s the right thing to do, and keeps you future proof as gas get phased out.
And with solar (even without battery) if the unit is empty, you could potentially be earning money/credits, depending on local utility setup, from the energy being produced but not used.

Are you considering battery storage?

I have seen some apartments look into becoming a microgrid. Put solar panels on buildings, covered parking, garages, and batteries in the basement. They charge the tenants and profit on the difference between what they charge the tenants and what they pay for power as well as to pay off the solar panels, batteries, etc.

I have seen apartments do the same thing with internet service (but that was like a decade ago).

I know if I was moving back into rental, it would be something I would look for (solar and EV charging).
 

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And with solar (even without battery) if the unit is empty, you could potentially be earning money/credits, depending on local utility setup, from the energy being produced but not used.

Are you considering battery storage?

I have seen some apartments look into becoming a microgrid. Put solar panels on buildings, covered parking, garages, and batteries in the basement. They charge the tenants and profit on the difference between what they charge the tenants and what they pay for power as well as to pay off the solar panels, batteries, etc.

I have seen apartments do the same thing with internet service (but that was like a decade ago).

I know if I was moving back into rental, it would be something I would look for (solar and EV charging).
I am. Our utility has a pretty good net metering program where you sell back at the same rate you pay, so battery value is low at the moment. But I don't trust them to change that, and they recently applied to kill it - they also own a Florida utility that did the same thing. Our Province thankfully intervened here and blocked the end of net metering, but who knows down the road. Also, I like the idea of energy independence and protection from surges. I've had some electronics killed by that here.

I currently include everything for tenants: heat, power, internet, etc. I've found people like that even if they pay a premium. Getting an account, moving, uncertainty is a hassle. They also know the landlord isn't renting out a drafty heat suck. By having solar instead of utility power I'd be insulated against further increases from the power company and long-term it would be more profitable. And I think tenants would love having power when everyone else around them is having an outage. In the end I hope to have 3 shops, 3 apartments and my own home and business office basically as a microgrid as you say, though I doubt we'd ever fully disconnect from the mother ship for security.
 

TheLastStarfighter

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A "bit". Have you run any numbers?
I have. My last two working roles were as a city manager, and then CEO of a renewable energy development organization, so this stuff is kinda my jam. I've managed multiple solar installations of various sizes.

Specific to my personal project, there are multiple reasons why the costs are justified. For a little more info, my property is a downtown building built by the power company, ironically enough. It's an L-shape, on a corner lot with the hallow part of the L facing the side street and providing around 9 parking spots. Since we're about a block from the very center of town, the land and parking are at a premium and valuable. My plan is to in-fill the L and build up. It's a steal and brick structure, so addition is no issue. In-filling is desirable in downtowns from a city planning perspective to both add population density, and to make the main streets more "cozy" and walkable. People don't like walking by parking lots.

Some issues we deal with at our location are:
-snow removal. The building density means there's no where to put snow. By the end of winter we've usually lost several parking spots and/or have to get snow trucked out. Fairly costly.
-Crime. Violent crime is fairly rare, but we do get drug addicts hanging around sometimes being a hassle and/or looking to steal or break things. Secure parking would help be rid of this problem and make downtown living that much more cool.
-energy costs. We've previously eliminated two oil burners which provided the main heat for the building. We've replaced with heat pumps, and while they are about 3X more efficient, the property does use a lot of electricity now.
-No outdoor space. My kids need a place to run.

So, in one shot as a solution to all problems we plan to build out and up. A rooftop addition for my family with a patio, entertaining space and greenspace(roof), a garage for each unit including my own, and a couple additional apartments above those. The addition for my family and each new unit will have a 45 degree sloped roof facing south, ideal for solar. My hope is that Tesla Solar Roof is available here by then, the math on it is good for new construction and it looks super cool.

I've talked to other landlords who pinch pennies to create rentals like a meat market. They have an exact cost per unit worked out to stay under (usually $30k) to maximize profits. That's not how I role. This project is a mix of things for me, it's my home, my business. It's also a bit of a pet project, where I get to use ideas that may have been vetoed working for others. People take pride in their downtowns, and I want my neighbors to say our property is the most beautiful in the community. People tell us how pleased they are as we improve what was a bit of a run-down older building. By building units that are secure, beautiful and sustainable you'll attract the best tenants and likely have less hassles as a landlord.
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