No Resale Agreement?

[Deleted member 3316]

Of course I only said this to point out the hypocrisy of people who oppose a Tesla buy-back option to prevent scalping (my original proposal) and those who would equally oppose Tesla auctioning the vehicles. The buy-back right is a contractually simple and workable system for preventing scalping. Methinks people who do no like it are wannabe scalpers.

Don’t you think removing the incentive to engage in arbitrage would be more effective?

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[Ogre]

This just in, Jan. 2024: Based on your policy, the cheapest of the first 220,000 CT's was auctioned for $114,000. The cheapest. Thanks Bob!

Just curious.

Of all the vehicles sold in the US over the past year, how many sold for over $100,000?

Maybe 50,000 total? Less than 1% of the population can afford cars that expensive and many of them don’t want a Cybertruck.

The idea that Tesla could sell 200,000 trucks for more than $120k in a year is nonsense.

How many Rivians were flipped for over $100k? 500-1000? Certainly not more than a couple thousand. Likely less.

The numbers people are tossing around here have no basis, it’s just “Make up Numbers” Mumbo Jumbo.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Just curious.

Of all the vehicles sold in the US over the past year, how many sold for over $100,000?

Maybe 50,000 total? Less than 1% of the population can afford cars that expensive and many of them don’t want a Cybertruck.

The idea that Tesla could sell 200,000 trucks for more than $120k in a year is nonsense.

How many Rivians were flipped for over $100k? 500-1000? Certainly not more than a couple thousand. Likely less.

The numbers people are tossing around here have no basis, it’s just “Make up Numbers” Mumbo Jumbo.

This is hilarious Ogre… You really should read the post and interpret the intent before you respond… you’re demonstrating Poe’s Law perfectly ?

@Cyberman was using a sarcastic counterfactual in an effort to demonstrate an extreme consequence of an incomplete solution.

 

[HaulingAss]

People reselling for a profit is a very short term issue. Tesla has measures to mitigate large scale abuse, and putting more draconian limits up screws with owners and will almost certainly cost Tesla more to implement than it’s worth.

Once Tesla has 50,000 trucks in consumers driveways, the premium will come down fast. We’re about a year after Rivian and Ford put their first vehicles on the road and used prices are below new now even for very low mileage vehicles. While demand isn’t as high for these vehicles, supply has been quite tight on both. These other vehicles also give a good substitute vehicle for people who just want an electric truck.

Lots of people who thought they‘d be able to flip their Lightning or Rivian are crying right now. Similar situation will happen not long after Cybertruck is out.

Likely within ~6-12 months of first shipment used prices on Cybertruck will stabilize to something sane. Used cars get even crappier financing than new and interest rates are relatively high right now. Also, transaction costs are high, particularly in sales tax states. California flippers will pay 8% tax on their new truck, then the buyer will pay another 8% on top of that. All of this carves into profits fast.

Exactly this! I quoted this off the first page of this ridiculous discussion because it shows the answer to people who think scalping is going to be a big problem has already been explained. The number of Cybertrucks scalped for a high price is going to be inconsequential in terms of how many Tesla will be manufacturing within a few months of the start of high production.

Not only is the market very small for vehicles costing north of $100,000, but also, such a dynamic just can't last very long for a consumer vehicle manufactured in high volumes. Tesla plans to make huge numbers of Cybertrucks and to do it as quickly as humanly possible.

Scalping is inevitable but it's not a problem that won't be eliminated by a normal high-volume production ramp. I suggest that people who are concerned about scalping think more like a big automaker and less like small-time speculators. The former will make billions, the latter will be very short-lived.

 

[CyberGus]

My priority isn’t scalpers. It’s the price. Scalpers are a consequence of pricing below market clearance rates.

As has been repeatedly explained to you, this is simply not true.

You should care what other people do with their truck after purchase because it’s costing you more money.

This is also not true.

Maybe this is why I'm having a diffucult time understanding your goals, since you keep relying upon speculation as fact.

 

[Cyberman]

Of course I only said this to point out the hypocrisy of people who oppose a Tesla buy-back option to prevent scalping (my original proposal) and those who would equally oppose Tesla auctioning the vehicles. The buy-back right is a contractually simple and workable system for preventing scalping. Methinks people who do no like it are wannabe scalpers.

I understand your position. And maybe I am a wanna be scalper (I do have a second reservation) But my focus is on keeping the price of my CT as low as possible. I DGAF what anyone else pays, frankly. If I'm forced to buy my CT via auction, it would obviously cost me more. Tesla is going to sell the Cybertruck for the price they deem reasonable (I think $40,000 was a great deal). The secondary market has always existed, people are going to pay whatever they're willing to pay. I'm not concerned with that, I have a reservation. Anyway, I think the buyback idea is absurd. They can't buy back a used truck for full price. This is your brain.
And this is your brain on Cybertruck.
Any questions?

 

[Deleted member 3316]

As has been repeatedly explained to you, this is simply not true.


This is also not true.

Maybe this is why I'm having a diffucult time understanding your goals, since you keep relying upon speculation as fact.

This is just basic economics.

https://thismatter.com/economics/market-equilibrium.htm

http://www2.harpercollege.edu/mhealy/eco212i/lectures/ch3-17.htm

Please do enlighten me on the market mechanism Tesla is currently using.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Exactly this! I quoted this off the first page of this ridiculous discussion because it shows the answer to people who think scalping is going to be a big problem has already been explained. The number of Cybertrucks scalped for a high price is going to be inconsequential in terms of how many Tesla will be manufacturing within a few months of the start of high production.

Not only is the market very small for vehicles costing north of $100,000, but also, such a dynamic just can't last very long for a consumer vehicle manufactured in high volumes. Tesla plans to make huge numbers of Cybertrucks and to do it as quickly as humanly possible.

Scalping is inevitable but it's not a problem that won't be eliminated by a normal high-volume production ramp. I suggest that people who are concerned about scalping think more like a big automaker and less like small-time speculators. The former will make billions, the latter will be very short-lived.

I think the reason so many people are focused on scalping is because they intend to low key engage in it.

Scalping isn’t too much of a problem for Tesla because of their market strategy of “soaking” the market as @Crissa would say , limits the arbitrage available.

If you want a price more resembling reveal then Tesla must engage in a different market strategy until they can match their supply to the demand.

 

[Crissa]

*****, increasing production to meet demand is also a market strategy.

And they do limit scalping, because they can and do refuse to deliver cars to scalpers. And unlike other car dealers, you can't take ownership of a Tesla without them knowing.

-Crissa

 

[Deleted member 3316]

I understand your position. And maybe I am a wanna be scalper (I do have a second reservation) But my focus is on keeping the price of my CT as low as possible.

What a delightfully honest place to start, defining your priorities is very helpful. The problem is it’s base individualism that disregards the trust required for an equitable society.

I DGAF what anyone else pays, frankly

which this selfishness articulates

The secondary market has always existed, people are going to pay whatever they're willing to pay. I'm not concerned with that, I have a reservation.

and again…. “I’ll be ok, I can manipulate the system for my own ends”

No judgement here. Many people here agree with you, but it does make arguments against mitigation rather weak.

Anyway, I think the buyback idea is absurd. They can't buy back a used truck for full price. This is your brain.
And this is your brain on Cybertruck.
Any questions?

And now I have to commend you again for actually interacting with what the OP is suggesting.

I too think a simple contractual agreement to abstain for selling a product after it’s bought and paid for an expensive and difficult to prosecute mechanism to keep prices low. It’s an incomplete solution.

The buy back is not completely ridiculous if framed in a different way.

A better way is to emulate what GM has done with the Silverado WT. Tesla has enough cash in the bank to offer CyberTruck to reservation holders only at lease (for an equitable price). This completely removes the resale capacity for the length of the lease. But then people will complain using many excuses about not wanting this for whatever reason(mostly because they can’t flip their truck). The remedy to this is to simultaneously offer the Cybertruck to anyone with no resale restriction at the market clearing price.
Then Tesla need not with blacklisting people.

 

[CyberGus]

This is just basic economics.

https://thismatter.com/economics/market-equilibrium.htm

http://www2.harpercollege.edu/mhealy/eco212i/lectures/ch3-17.htm

Please do enlighten me on the market mechanism Tesla is currently using.

Supply and demand are matched exactly by pricing… in a perfect market.

There’s no pit of traders screaming Cybertruck bid/ask prices at each other. This is not pork bellies, or frozen concentrated orange juice, or Turbo-Man.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Supply and demand are matched exactly by pricing…in a perfect market

So what is Tesla going to do? They price it at market clearing rate… no where near reveal prices….

why are you arguing with me when we agree?
Oh that’s right you don’t want any possible impediments to your profiteering…

 

[Deleted member 3316]

every time I explain away what would appear to be a genuine concern you pivot through a cycle of misrepresentations ignoring my efforts to clarify your understanding and confirm base reality.

*****, increasing production to meet demand is also a market strategy.

And they do limit scalping, because they can and do refuse to deliver cars to scalpers. And unlike other car dealers, you can't take ownership of a Tesla without them knowing.

 

[CyberGus]

Oh that’s right you don’t want any possible impediments to your profiteering…

This is at least the third time you have stooped to calling me a “profiteer”. In addition to being a low-key ad hominem attack, it speaks to your hubris: you’re unable to accept that someone disagrees with you without having an ulterior motive.

 

[cvalue13]

you’re unable to accept that someone disagrees with you without having an ulterior motive.

the worse the idea, the more it implicates!

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