No Resale Provision is Back

[freakyguy666]

Ridiculously anti-competitive.

So do you really 'own' the Cybertruck you just bought?
If you can't freely sell it without restrictions, then NO.

Tesla is retaining a significant part of the legal ownership, so I say have Tesla pay some percentage of the personal property tax.

Extremely indefinite/broad provisions, for example: "will first be released in limited quantity."
"First?"
How many Cybertrucks constitute the first release, how many constitute the "limited quantity?"
Is it the first 100? 1000? 10,000?
The first month of production? The first year? The first 2 years?

WTF knows?

Will they be branded "Limited Edition?"
And what is so special about them that permits this non-sense?
Are they going to be different from the ones that will be later mass-produced?

Someone in the Tesla legal dept. better have thought all that out and be prepared to justify this clause in court if they try to sue someone who doesn't comply.

As for the charge of 'scalping,' well in most places scalping is LEGAL.

It's known as the 'free market' folks, something America likes to brag that we have.

This is especially ironic and hypocritical from a 'libertarian' like Musk who espouses that freedom should be almost unlimited, and then seeks to limit Cybertruck purchasers freedom to resell.

Go figure...




https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...cybertruck-buyers-who-try-to-resell-the-cars/

Agreed on virtually all you wrote, but keep in mind even if they lose the case (in arbitration as stipulated in the agreement) Tesla may still blacklist you.

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[WarpathTesla]

Ready to buy your Cybertruck right now! I flew from Siberia to Los Angeles - I rented a Tesla and drove from Los Angeles to Austin. Texas state and visited the giga factory there! I’m ready to buy a CyberTruck because I’m here just for this car and I’m looking forward to it! I made a pre-order back in 2019, an hour after the presentation, but I don’t receive an invite that I can buy a car, help! I am ready to give a price higher than what you will pay for Tesla because I am a crazy fan from Russia and the only one who shows its best sides in Russia... I am the only one! I had already driven the car and realized that I really wanted to buy it and bring it to the mountains of Siberia and show people how cool the cybertruck is! https://www.youtube.com/@warpath031

 

[HaulingAss]

Ridiculously anti-competitive.

How come people don't use words to mean what they actually mean?

So do you really 'own' the Cybertruck you just bought?
If you can't freely sell it without restrictions, then NO.

It sounds like you are saying you disagree with the right of consenting adults to enter into contracts that specify the specific rights of each party in a transaction. No one is forcing anyone to buy a Cybertruck and every Cybertruck reservationist agreed at the time of reservation, that they recognized Tesla was not a wholesaler of their products, but the sole retailer.

If you think contractual terms should be strictly limited, you would like the entire country to only recognize one type of purchase and sale agreement, one in which there are no additional terms to the purchase and sale agreement, even if additional terms of the sale would further the purposes of both parties? Again, no one is forcing anyone to enter into the agreement, you just seem butt-hurt that you can't buy a Cybertruck on your terms. Tesla concieved, designed and manufactured the Cybertruck without your assistance so they don't need you to approve the terms of the purchase and sale agreement to others, only to yourself, if you chose to buy one. You have every right to refuse those terms, just as I have every right to accept them.

It's a free country, you seem to be forgetting that.

As for the charge of 'scalping,' well in most places scalping is LEGAL.

It's known as the 'free market' folks, something America likes to brag that we have.

This is especially ironic and hypocritical from a 'libertarian' like Musk who espouses that freedom should be almost unlimited, and then seeks to limit Cybertruck purchasers freedom to resell.

Go figure...

You seem to have a real disconnect from reality with your statements here. Someone who believes in freedom believes that consenting adults can do as they please. That includes entering into agreements in which neither party was coerced into signing. You are free to choose not to enter into the agreement. It's almost as if you believe that if someone creates something wonderful, you have the right to take it from them on your terms. Should the buyer be able to set the price to what they find reasonable too?

What you are saying makes zero sense in a world where the creator of a product actually owns the thing they created and can do with it what they want. Why should they be forced to only sell it on your terms?

If I want to subdivide my property, so I can sell you a lot in front of my house while retaining my views of the water, can I write restrictions into the title? Restrictions that say you can never build a house taller than 28 feet above ground level, so as to preserve my views? Or do you believe that I cannot sell a lot to you without giving up my right to protect my views?

It just seems unnecessarily restictive to prevent consenting adults from entering into whatever types of agreements both parties find agreeable.

Again, if the terms of sale are not agreeable, don't enter into the agreement. It looks like you will not be getting a Cybertruck without entering into an agreement that you find repulsive! That means more for everyone else who is cool with not selling it in the first year!

 

[HaulingAss]

Agreed on virtually all you wrote, but keep in mind even if they lose the case (in arbitration as stipulated in the agreement) Tesla may still blacklist you.

The right for consenting adults to enter into mutually beneficial agreements is well established in law. So, why do you think Tesla would lose the right to enforce a no-resale provision? It makes no sense. It's not like Tesla lawyers don't know how to draw up legally valid purchase and sale agreements.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm simply pointing out that your hypothetical is extremely unlikely to happen. Courts have long upheld the right for these types of no resale clauses, and arbitrators are bound to base their decisions on how laws are actually interpreted, not on how they feel that day.

 

[HaulingAss]

Ready to buy your Cybertruck right now! I flew from Siberia to Los Angeles - I rented a Tesla and drove from Los Angeles to Austin. Texas state and visited the giga factory there! I’m ready to buy a CyberTruck because I’m here just for this car and I’m looking forward to it! I made a pre-order back in 2019, an hour after the presentation, but I don’t receive an invite that I can buy a car, help! I am ready to give a price higher than what you will pay for Tesla because I am a crazy fan from Russia and the only one who shows its best sides in Russia... I am the only one! I had already driven the car and realized that I really wanted to buy it and bring it to the mountains of Siberia and show people how cool the cybertruck is! https://www.youtube.com/@warpath031

My advice to you? Wait your turn! You have a reservation, use it!

 

[freakyguy666]

The right for consenting adults to enter into mutually beneficial agreements is well established in law. So, why do you think Tesla would lose the right to enforce a no-resale provision? It makes no sense. It's not like Tesla lawyers don't know how to draw up legally valid purchase and sale agreements.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm simply pointing out that your hypothetical is extremely unlikely to happen. Courts have long upheld the right for these types of no resale clauses, and arbitrators are bound to base their decisions on how laws are actually interpreted, not on how they feel that day.

Because there is precedent for it not being upheld as legal.

 

[cvalue13]

Wrong on both counts. What is wrong with purchasing the vehicle with the intent to keep it and then decide they would prefer to sell it after 12 months?

nothing

also irrelevant to the conversation

the ROFR only runs 12mo

Sonin effect you’re asking “what’s wrong with completely complying with the terms of the agreement” but yelling it

 

[cvalue13]

yeah it's cvalue13

I do not work for, or represent, Tesla

the people at Tesla monitoring this forum do not post, or hand out business cards, or choose any sunglasses style other than

 

[HaulingAss]

Because there is precedent for it not being upheld as legal.

How could there be? Tesla has only sold less than a hundred, so it's never been tested in court.

If you are talking about other purchase and sale agreements, you will find such clauses are almost always upheld in courtrooms around the country. So much so, that people tend to not even challenge them because they know they would lose.

 

[freakyguy666]

How could there be? Tesla has only sold less than a hundred, so it's never been tested in court.

If you are talking about other purchase and sale agreements, you will find such clauses are almost always upheld in courtrooms around the country. So much so, that people tend to not even challenge them because they know they would lose.

Incorrect. Many other resale agreements have been found unenforceable.

 

[freakyguy666]

nothing

also irrelevant to the conversation

the ROFR only runs 12mo

Sonin effect you’re asking “what’s wrong with completely complying with the terms of the agreement” but yelling it

Not according to others on this very board…

 

[cvalue13]

Incorrect. Many other resale agreements have been found unenforceable.

first, show some examples

second, note distinctions

third, see again prior comment RE “you may beat the rap, but not the ride”


Tesla would still apply and enforce this provision, even if they knew that in some state courts and certain fact patterns an arbitrator would find against them

because for the unlikely scenario that one of those people has the time and money to take this provision to a conclusion, there will be 10,000 people that change their behavior based on the mere threat/prospect


This thread discussion is largely void of the basics of contract or corporate strategy

which is fine and expected, until folks begin posturing like their walking-around armchair knowledge is relevant to anything

 

[cvalue13]

Not according to others on this very board…

9/10 times, the problem may be you understanding the discussion

 

[freakyguy666]

first, show some examples

second, note distinctions

third, see again prior comment RE “you may beat the rap, but not the ride”


Tesla would still apply and enforce this provision, even if they knew that in some state courts and certain fact patterns an arbitrator would find against them

because for the unlikely scenario that one of those people has the time and money to take this provision to a conclusion, there will be 10,000 people that change their behavior based on the mere threat/prospect


This thread discussion is largely void of the basics of contract or corporate strategy

which is fine and expected, until folks begin posturing like their walking-around armchair knowledge is relevant to anything

If the court doesn’t uphold the agreement how would Tesla enforce it?

 

[freakyguy666]

9/10 times, the problem may be you understanding the discussion

Based on that comment it sounds like you have a personal problem. Seek help.

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