JoeRod97

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I hope we (the ones who paid $100) and have had an order # for 4 years, don't need to get into this new queue for $250... right? They'll just let us choose one of these new options and keep our spot in line?
Not happy with new pricing! It could be more! Wont know until we get one.after tax,destination fees ,etc..final total closer to 90k for dual motor.lots of buyers might balk.others wont want to wait for 2025 for single.beast lovers are going to shell out 115k and more for range extender.makes it big $$$$$ just like Rivian .i hope its worth it all ,Elon!!
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JoeRod97

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Terrible. No respect for their original pricing, or interest in getting regular people interested in the truck. There is no way Tesla became 30k less efficient over the last 4 years - this is straight up price gauging since they know they can get it from their most loyal/rich customers. Very disappointing - hoped Tesla cared about their customers and the mission more than this.
I think once they saw the high demand for the CT they figured they could raise the price and would still sell a boatload
No worse rhan other car makers who get big $$$ for cars with price gouging.some corvette Z06 dealers are charging 100% over asking price....and GETTING IT!! Lots of regular corvette buyers are paying 20- 50k over sticker. Tesla sees this demand as a good reason to raise prices.at least theyre up front about it .still doesnt make it right..
 

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I'm guessing it wasn't new and it didn't have 4x4 (or an awesome stereo and seats, lol!).
It was brand new and a 4x4, and it has a towing package but it will only tow up to about 7500 lbs, because of it's age it has a cd player and overall I have been happy with it other than it is a gas guzzler. I find here in Canada that rust claims most of my vehicles so I get it rust proofed, paste wax it twice a year and touch up any surface rust so it is pretty much rust free too.

I guess it is going to have to last me a couple more years until the CT price comes down.

Tesla Cybertruck OFFICIAL 2024 Cybertruck Pricing, Specs, Mileage/Range, Dimensions, Weight, Info 1701782966092
 

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Initially, the Dual was supposed to $50K at release 2021. Two years late, 2023, the price is now $80K, an increase of 60%. Cannot blame inflation for 60% increase.
I just looked up the inflation rate since 2019 and it looks like around 6%. I am probably wrong. Explain the large increase in the cybertruck to me.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2022 was 8.00%, a 3.3% increase from 2021.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2021 was 4.70%, a 3.46% increase from 2020.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2020 was 1.23%, a 0.58% decline from 2019.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2019 was 1.81%, a 0.63% decline from 2018.
 

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I just looked up the inflation rate since 2019 and it looks like around 6%. I am probably wrong. Explain the large increase in the cybertruck to me.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2022 was 8.00%, a 3.3% increase from 2021.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2021 was 4.70%, a 3.46% increase from 2020.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2020 was 1.23%, a 0.58% decline from 2019.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2019 was 1.81%, a 0.63% decline from 2018.
I think your numbers are off. If you Google inflation calculator, the first hit is bls.gov which has a CPI calculator. $100 entered at 2019 is about $122 in todays dollars, so that’s a 22% inflation rate, which doesn’t include food or fuel costs. So actual inflation is MUCH higher.
 


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I just looked up the inflation rate since 2019 and it looks like around 6%. I am probably wrong. Explain the large increase in the cybertruck to me.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2022 was 8.00%, a 3.3% increase from 2021.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2021 was 4.70%, a 3.46% increase from 2020.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2020 was 1.23%, a 0.58% decline from 2019.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2019 was 1.81%, a 0.63% decline from 2018.
Inflation has never been put forward for a reason for the price increase. The reason the prices are 50-60% higher is because they can. Might as well make as much money as you can when the output is low. If Elon finds that the trucks aren't selling he can always lower prices - not like we haven't seen that before.

The price increases even took the analysts by surprise.

 

Roy2001

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Because the truck frame and suspension can only carry let's say 9500lb (gross weight). If the truck itself with 200kWh battery weighs 8500lb, then it can only carry 1000lb. If you change the battery to 120kWh and weighs 1000lb less, then payload is 2000lb.

That's why F150 Lightning Pro SR can carry 2200+lb and Lariat ER can carry 1600lb.
 

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And I will believe their prices when I see them truly selling
I bet they will change their design. It does NOT make sense to let the truck carry 200+ kWh battery daily. I think CT battery extender is the right direction. You only need to carry extra battery when you need (to tow or travle).

This will simplify the production line and inventory, it can provide great flexibility for customers as well. Instead of driving an 8500lb truck with 200kWh battery pack daily, you can leave the battery pack in garage, or even rent only when you need.
 
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ED_SFO

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I just looked up the inflation rate since 2019 and it looks like around 6%. I am probably wrong. Explain the large increase in the cybertruck to me.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2022 was 8.00%, a 3.3% increase from 2021.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2021 was 4.70%, a 3.46% increase from 2020.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2020 was 1.23%, a 0.58% decline from 2019.
  • U.S. inflation rate for 2019 was 1.81%, a 0.63% decline from 2018.
Inflation has never been put forward for a reason for the price increase. The reason the prices are 50-60% higher is because they can. Might as well make as much money as you can when the output is low. If Elon finds that the trucks aren't selling he can always lower prices - not like we haven't seen that before.

The price increases even took the analysts by surprise.

it’s obvious you both are missing the point of the pricing increase. Inflation is just one broader factor. Here are some other factors that play a bigger role to pricing:

- Elon priced the truck too low to begin with
- Cost to manufacture the truck increased ie.
* new custom tools to bend stainless
* new glass manufacturing line for windshield
* newer system for 48v low voltage
* rear wheel steer
* steer and brake by wire
*power frunk

these has nothing to do with inflation directly but inflation did make the parts for these features more expensive. Stop thinking about inflation as linear. Stainless steel is still 50% more expensive now than in 2019. Then extrapolate that out to 8000 individual parts. Is Tesla going to make money on the CT? Of course!!! They invested probably close to a billion dollars into the development of CT. They want some of that money back first.
 


cvalue13

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I just looked up the inflation rate since 2019 and it looks like around 6%. I am probably wrong. Explain the large increase in the cybertruck to me.
it’s obvious you both are missing the point of the pricing increase. Inflation is just one broader factor. Here are some other factors that play a bigger role to pricing:

while inflation and vehicle complexity no doubt plays some role in this pricing, these micro-influences are on one view ancillary to the core and cartoon level reality:

You can't sell a cheap Cybertruck until you can produce a LOT of them, efficiently.

Once you can do that, you don't mind that Cybertruck sales will cannibalize your other Model 3, S, X, Y sales - at least you're still getting a sale of a Cybertruck.​
But if instead you advertise low MSRPs on the Cybertruck, and can't produce that many units, then people will sit on the sidelines, waiting - rightly or wrongly - on their Cybertruck deliver that is "just around the corner."​
It's not really an option, optically, to try and have it both ways by saying "yes, the Cybertruck is cheap, but you might have to wait a couple years before you get yours." (As close as you can get to that, optically, is to send an email to the hopeful that says "while you're waiting on your Cybertruck, we'll give you a discount on another model - *wink wink, nudge nudge*).​
So, you price the Cybertruck in a way that rationalizes the buying pool towards your expected production volumes that are well below your cost-blind demand. And you ramp, and ramp, and ramp, until you're selling enough trucks with enough production efficiency/margin to be able to lower the price and not care that it will cannibalize sales of your other models.​
What you absolutely cannot do is price the Cybertruck so low, and make so few, that it causes people to sit on the sidelines and not buy anything while they wait for a Cybertruck.​


Meanwhile and concurrently, if you're not building a lot of Cybertrucks, you can't squeeze your margin or else your corporate financials will get screwed.

The day Tesla start arms-length retail sales of the Cybertruck, all the currently off-balance sheet costs of Cybertruck production will move onto Tesla's balance sheet. You're gonna have to take some of that hit to the financials no matter what. But you mitigate that hit by not starting retail sales until you have line-of-sight on producing a sufficient baseload rate of units, and for each of those units maximize the MSRP, so that this Cybertruck revenue helps offset the realities and optics of the balance sheet effects of starting production.​




These overarching dynamics above have been variously overlooked or underplayed for some time, at least around here, due in part to overly-optimistic assumptions about the Cybertruck ramp. Afterall, if you're producing a lot of them efficiently, inflation etc. isn't enough to justify such a material price hike. This was the basis of a lot of arguments about MSRP prior to Nov. 30 - but we shouldn't forget that further back, like 9 months ago, some were trying to figure out how many tens of thousands would be sold in 2023, and how many hundreds of thousands would be sold in 2024. The xwitter influencers just 4 months ago were making bets that the Cybertruck would outsell ICE F150's in the course of 2026.

The reality has set in that, to the extent the hype is true regarding how the Cybertruck is efficient to build, getting to that efficiency point is difficult. It's a wildly new product, being built on a line unlike prior Teslas.

If you're still incredulous that the Cybertruck ramp may be not so different from other prior Tesla models, I think all you have to do is look at these MSRPs.
 

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it’s obvious you both are missing the point of the pricing increase. Inflation is just one broader factor. Here are some other factors that play a bigger role to pricing:

- Elon priced the truck too low to begin with
- Cost to manufacture the truck increased ie.
* new custom tools to bend stainless
* new glass manufacturing line for windshield
* newer system for 48v low voltage
* rear wheel steer
* steer and brake by wire
*power frunk

these has nothing to do with inflation directly but inflation did make the parts for these features more expensive. Stop thinking about inflation as linear. Stainless steel is still 50% more expensive now than in 2019. Then extrapolate that out to 8000 individual parts. Is Tesla going to make money on the CT? Of course!!! They invested probably close to a billion dollars into the development of CT. They want some of that money back first.
CT price will go down once production volume is up.
 

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I don't think the physics is with you on this one



first, not to quip, but a "200% increase" of 340mi is 1,020 miles

but in any event, literally doubling the pack size does not double the range.

the truck becomes ~1,000lbs heavier just from the pack. Then the structural elements of the vehicle have to be made more robust, which increases weight. Then the steering, breaking, and other operational componentry has to become more robust, further increasing the weight, etc. So you do not get double the range by adding double the pack, even before accounting to a change in frontal plain.

But, moving just one click past talking in crayolas here, to a sharpie:

Current frontal plain height of production CT:
  • Height at medium is 70", with 9" of ground clearance, meaning the height of the frontal plane is 61"
Current frontal plain width of production CT:
  • we'll even assume that Tesla can increase the height without increasing the width, to avoid making the design look aesthetically like a stretched version of the truck
  • current width is 80"
Current frontal plain area of CT:
  • 61" x 80" = 4880 square inches
New frontal plain area of CT after becoming 6" taller"
  • 67" x 80" = 5,280 square inches
  • a 7.5% increase to frontal plain f(and so drag force) from current production frontal plain/drag force (assuming variables stay constant)
Drag Coefficient:
  • we'll even assume that Tesla can change the height of the CT's frontal plain without changing the Cd of the vehicle
  • Cd of current production CT is 0.345 (so we've seen/been told)

I have to run to appointments - who wants to complete the maths here?
C,

A couple things... I think the Cd is 0.335 as per the delivery event. Also, adding 6" to the ride height doesn't add 6" to the frontal area. The frontal area of the truck remains the same. The frontal area of the tires adds 6" to those. And what is not present in the plain drag formula is the interaction with the ground. This is where the lower ride helps. In some ways, your interaction with the payment affects your total Cd. When they were getting the ThrustSSC up to speed, a major concern was the interaction of the shock wave and the ground.
 

cvalue13

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C,

A couple things... I think the Cd is 0.335 as per the delivery event. Also, adding 6" to the ride height doesn't add 6" to the frontal area. The frontal area of the truck remains the same. The frontal area of the tires adds 6" to those. And what is not present in the plain drag formula is the interaction with the ground. This is where the lower ride helps. In some ways, your interaction with the payment affects your total Cd. When they were getting the ThrustSSC up to speed, a major concern was the interaction of the shock wave and the ground.
setting aside and agreeing for obvious reasons with the various cartoon-level simplifications made in the discussion above, one key clarification:

the discussion being had was double-stacking the pack, without encroaching on the interior volume of the truck, and the suggestion was made that the double-stack below the current altitude of the existing pack - e.g., make the truck body itself 6" taller, not just raise the truck 6" (though they'd have to do that, too, if they wanted to maintain same ground clearance)


So, maybe I missunderstood something, but I was responding to the suggestion that increasing the frontal plain of the vehicle (by making the truck body itself 6" taller) could have surprisingly large effects on efficiency

(PS: as for the Cd, you may be right - but i was holding constant between two variants, so)
 

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setting aside and agreeing for obvious reasons with the various cartoon-level simplifications made in the discussion above, one key clarification:

the discussion being had was double-stacking the pack, without encroaching on the interior volume of the truck, and the suggestion was made that the double-stack below the current altitude of the existing pack - e.g., make the truck body itself 6" taller, not just raise the truck 6" (though they'd have to do that, too, if they wanted to maintain same ground clearance)


So, maybe I missunderstood something, but I was responding to the suggestion that increasing the frontal plain of the vehicle (by making the truck body itself 6" taller) could have surprisingly large effects on efficiency

(PS: as for the Cd, you may be right - but i was holding constant between two variants, so)
Ahh, I see your point. Yes, a double stack would increase frontal area (and Cd!). But I get you're keeping the number of variables to a minimum for the purpose of simplicity and clarity.

Sorry I didn't make the connection. Too many new posts the past few days!
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