Perhaps they could produce a smaller Cybertruck, given how well the truck is accepted

prl99

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2021
Messages
151
Reaction score
172
Location
Anacortes, WA
Vehicles
2013 Toyota Tacoma, registered for dual motor CT
Country flag
Ford F-series production has been hit pretty heavily by the semiconductor shortage AFAIK. Still, 414k vs 162k is a significant difference, I know it encompasses all F-series truck sales but the F-150 makes up the lion's share. I'm also not seeing any Chevy or RAM trucks in that list so it's definitely not comprehensive.
Yes, Ford sells 2.5x more F-series trucks than Toyota sells Tacomas. Not my website so not sure why they weren't included in the first chart. Keep scrolling down and you'll find RAM trucks. Ford must not be listing model types because F-150 isn't found, only F-series on entire page. Tundra sales adds another 50K so actually F-series only sells 1.95x more than Toyota. Numbers can be manipulated all over the place so my takeaway is while Ford sells the most trucks, Toyota isn't a bit player.

As for the semiconductor shortage, Toyota would have been hit hard as well. Appears only Apple and Tesla figured out a way to keep getting them.
Advertisement

 

ElectricCat

Member
First Name
Uri
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
7
Location
Oxnard, CA
Vehicles
2018 Model 3 LR RW FSD, 2020 Model S LR
Occupation
Systems Middleware Engineer
Country flag
In California, your HOA or condo association must make allowances so you can charge.

-Crissa
I am with you on that. I have 2 Tesla cars and I charge them in my garage overnight. If you read my notes, It is all about charging at night , nothing else really. 🛻. So far, I do not have any solution to this challenge.
 

RVAC

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 11, 2021
Messages
77
Reaction score
101
Location
-
Vehicles
-
Right, but my point is full-size vs mid-size truck sales not Ford vs Toyota or any other manufacturer. You are right in that Ford does not report F-150 sales on their own, just cumulative F-series numbers but as already mentioned the vast majority will be F-150's.

Yes, Toyota as a whole would have been hit as well but it doesn't necessarily mean Tacoma sales would have been affected.

I'm not trying to say that Tesla shouldn't do a mid-size truck, because they totally should, however going for a full-size truck first is undoubtedly the right choice as the addressable market is significantly bigger.
 

prl99

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2021
Messages
151
Reaction score
172
Location
Anacortes, WA
Vehicles
2013 Toyota Tacoma, registered for dual motor CT
Country flag
Right, but my point is full-size vs mid-size truck sales not Ford vs Toyota or any other manufacturer. You are right in that Ford does not report F-150 sales on their own, just cumulative F-series numbers but as already mentioned the vast majority will be F-150's.

Yes, Toyota as a whole would have been hit as well but it doesn't necessarily mean Tacoma sales would have been affected.

I'm not trying to say that Tesla shouldn't do a mid-size truck, because they totally should, however going for a full-size truck first is undoubtedly the right choice as the addressable market is significantly bigger.
I presume you're commenting on my comment. What determines a majority to be vast? 2x, 3x, 10x? Maybe just one more than the other. Double the number of sales isn't really vast unless you're talking about large numbers, like 2M vs 1M. Ford sells more that's true but not as much more as people want to believe.

As for semiconductors, every vehicle and model has been affected.

I know, go big or go home. The problem is the change to EV is supposed to be about clean air, reducing waste and conservation of natural resources. Building wasteful huge pickup trucks doesn't really fit into this scenario. Tesla's first vehicle was a little sports car. None of their vehicles, so far, have been over sized, like the tanks in the 60's-80's. So why is Tesla, and others, introducing their first EV trucks to satisfy the oversized boy-toy generation? Here's a website showing Ford wheelbases over the years.
https://www.blueovaltrucks.com/tech-articles/ford-truck-van-suv-wheelbase-chart/
As anyone can see, they've steadily been growing for no real reason. Again, I don't like even being in a large truck and I have sat in an F-250. I'm shrinking but was 5'11" and even I would need a step ladder to get into the cab. That makes this vehicle wrong for people with disabilities, shorter height and older people. Just like older people shouldn't have stairs in their house because of potential accidents and not having a complete living space on a single level in case they need a wheelchair. Very few people really need the huge trucks, they're mainly being purchased as a status symbol.
 

RVAC

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 11, 2021
Messages
77
Reaction score
101
Location
-
Vehicles
-
When I say the vast majority it refers to the make up of the reported F-series sales, to put a number I'd say at least 3/4's will be F-150's. So that's roughly x2 the amount of Tacoma's sold by Toyota in a period where they've had significant production issues.

No, Toyota hasn't faced substantial shortages of semiconductors in the North American market ... at least up until now: https://www.motor1.com/news/527908/toyota-chip-shortage-production-pause. Even then, as the article highlights, Tacoma's will be prioritized over other models given their higher margins, which is what I was hinting at in my post. Plus given the lower volumes compared to the F-series it is easier for them to keep the line running at full steam.

You could make that same argument about energy efficiency for Sedans vs CUV's, but ultimately Tesla is a business and should do what makes most economic sense. If we look at the last normal year (2019) the addressable market for mid-size trucks was 639,251 units, full-size trucks 2,481,330.
 

Ogre

Well-known member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Messages
4,183
Reaction score
8,891
Location
Ogregon
Vehicles
Model Y
Country flag
Truck manufacturers are getting to the point where they feel they can only sell monster trucks when people only need smaller ones.
The way regulations are structured has a lot to do with that. Smaller vehicles have different fuel economy requirements than larger ones.
 

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
7,587
Reaction score
10,774
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
The way regulations are structured has a lot to do with that. Smaller vehicles have different fuel economy requirements than larger ones.
Yeah, that's a huge driver in the American growth in cars. Big SUVs were excluded from CAFE, CARB, and got bigger tax deductions.

Pretty crazy, honestly.

-Crissa
 

prl99

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2021
Messages
151
Reaction score
172
Location
Anacortes, WA
Vehicles
2013 Toyota Tacoma, registered for dual motor CT
Country flag
The way regulations are structured has a lot to do with that. Smaller vehicles have different fuel economy requirements than larger ones.
Found this website, https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/corporate-average-fuel-economy and it's typical government double-speak. Tried to find definitions of a light-truck, which might not mean what we think it does. Somewhere in all the definitions, I think the trucks we're talking about are all under 10K lbs so they're either considered automobiles or light trucks. I lost track of where I was trying to find the regulations you're talking about. Either way, "NHTSA is proposing to amend the CAFE standards set in 2020 for passenger cars and light trucks manufactured in model years 2024-2026, so that standards would increase in stringency at a rate of 8% per year rather than the 1.5% year set previously." would mean "larger" vehicles would be subject to (maybe) the same regulations as smaller ones.

Problem is, more SUVs and light trucks are being sold than small cars so the average is hurting companies like Toyota when carbon credits come into play. These proposed changes will hurt even more so your comment might get out of date real quick. Continuing to build larger vehicles won't offset these standards, they might make them worse, especially when you take into account the higher energy requirements of larger vehicles (even EVs) delivering lower MPGe numbers that have been used to offset ICE MPG (low) numbers.

I mentioned double-speak at the beginning, that's the key word when dealing with all this garbage and how companies like Toyota can get away with continuing to use ICE engines because they've gotten credit for the worthless little batteries in their Prius. Tesla is the only full-EV company currently producing vehicles that are truly 100% EV. The Big 3, European and Asian companies are so far behind it's silly to even include them in any conversation about EVs. They're not even at the hobby level yet.
 
Last edited:

prl99

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2021
Messages
151
Reaction score
172
Location
Anacortes, WA
Vehicles
2013 Toyota Tacoma, registered for dual motor CT
Country flag
Fun story of the day. Hyundai announce a ripped open crossover and is calling it a truck. The 2022 Santa Cruz is 196" long, 75" wide (about same width as my Tacoma) with a 4.5-ft bed. Getting only 23mpg I wonder how they can even release it. 3500 lb towing. Now this is a small truck!

I'd be a tiny bit interested if they were announcing this truck as an EV. Wait, no I wouldn't.

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/2022-santa-cruz
also https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a37274532/2022-hyundai-santa-cruz-drive/
 

Ogre

Well-known member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Messages
4,183
Reaction score
8,891
Location
Ogregon
Vehicles
Model Y
Country flag
Getting only 23mpg I wonder how they can even release it. 3500 lb towing. Now this is a small truck!
What is repulsive to me is the fact that this vehicle is no better than the Subaru Baja which was released 19 years ago with exactly the same fuel economy.

I love the idea of this, but honestly don't get how they can relaunch this concept so many years later with the same mileage and not get laughed out of the room.
 

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
7,587
Reaction score
10,774
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
Geez, and my Mazda gets far more power (and has more internal space) than my Sentra did but gets the same gas mileage. And the new Mazdas get even better fuel mileage and have more performance (and the new Maverick will do better, even in the all-gas version).

That's a cute truck, but... I need an EV.

-Crissa
 

Ginger

Member
First Name
Virginia
Joined
Jul 28, 2021
Messages
5
Reaction score
5
Location
La Quinta, CA
Vehicles
Lexus hybrid
Occupation
Medical
Country flag
I would like to see a smaller version also. Easier to park. I am unfortunately one of those despised people that don't really need a truck, but gotta have this because it is so damn cool looking! Elon, please consider a smaller version. CyberSuv PLEASE!
 

prl99

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2021
Messages
151
Reaction score
172
Location
Anacortes, WA
Vehicles
2013 Toyota Tacoma, registered for dual motor CT
Country flag
I would like to see a smaller version also. Easier to park. I am unfortunately one of those despised people that don't really need a truck, but gotta have this because it is so damn cool looking! Elon, please consider a smaller version. CyberSuv PLEASE!
I'm an in between driver. I needed something more powerful than a 2000 4Runner to pull the ultralight trailer I bought (since sold) so I got a 2013 Tacoma double cab. It worked better but still sucked pulling a 2600 lb load (trailer and stuff in it). I've since downsized to a rooftop tent and 5x10 cargo trailer, which my Tacoma can pull fine. I also use my Tacoma to haul rock, potting soil, and other gardening things along with too heavy pavers and retaining wall bricks. My roof/bed rack has hauled all kinds of plywood, sheetrock and dimensional lumber more than several times. I can park in some compact parking spots since my front end can go over the wheel and plater curbs, which is very helpful.

I don't ever see myself pulling a large travel trailer, a horse trailer or a large flatbed or cargo trailer (pulled a friend's 12-ft utility trailer with over a ton of old cement in it to a recycling facility--over my GVWR). My 5x10 cargo trailer can tow lots of my things and I can see around it without mirror extensions even though I have Dodge-style flip-to-extend mirrors on my Tacoma. I have filled my Tacoma 5-ft bed with plenty of camping supplies and would welcome a longer bed as long as the overall length of a CyberSUV isn't any longer than my Tacoma (208" vs 192" of the shortened and dropped CT I created for a different forum article--included below, also see https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/what-about-a-three-seater.3723/#post-66427).

Screen Shot 2021-08-30 at 7.36.33 AM.png
 
Advertisement

 

TSLA Stock

Advertisement
Top