Possible explanations of the low tow rating?

[cvalue13]

Cybertruck's max payload is 2,500 lbs which is a full ton and way more than 3/4 ton or 1/2 ton.

come again? What did you intend to say here?

2,500 is not a full ton or way more than 3/4 or 1/2 ton *trucks* (which for decades hasn’t mean literal tonnage of payload)

However I trust Tesla's 11,000 tow rating more than I'd trust any legacy auto maker's 14,000 lb tow rating at this point.

come again? What did you intend to say here?

can’t grasp how’d you start to formulate this opinion

Sponsored

 

[Rutrow]

Has anyone seen whether there is an integrated trailer brake controller?

The Top Gear reviewer opened the "trailer and towing" menu (cued up in the video below) to reveal "trailer brake gain" settings and three settings for the "trailer brake aggressiveness". I'm afraid that means that instead of having an infinitely variable manual brake slider, the amount of manual emergency trailer braking you'll be able to do will be a momentary electric switch that applies a set amount of braking with the pre-set button push.

I have wondered what one of the steering wheel buttons is (right-hand, top left). That may be the manual trailer brake, but it's a weird icon that I can't make real sense of.

 

[Keeney]

I have wondered what one of the steering wheel buttons is (right-hand, top left). That may be the manual trailer brake, but it's a weird icon that I can't make real sense of.

According to the screen shot of the towing settings, it appears that trailer brake control can be displayed on the touch screen while towing, or assigned to the Right Scroll Wheel:

 

[Rutrow]

Thanks! I didn't even catch that!

 

[cvalue13]

Given the impressive towing demo, how is it possible that the official towing capacity number is so low? An F-350 Diesel can tow 18k-30k (per Ford). Any ideas?

I’ve got a pretty good guess

That F350 Diesel might lose the sled pull for a few minutes, But it can go all day long at its rated towing capacity without overheating.

While this was a far better demonstration than the 2019 tug-of-war, I think it was still pretty silly and misleading - and also showed some bizarre thingsthat left me with question marks

like, did anyone else notice how the CyberTruck’s tail end seemed completely swamped - and ANYTHING but load-leveled?

watch the video at the ~2seconds just before and at point the CyberTruck begins the pull, and the tail end goes from raised to swamped in a not ideal way

and whether intentional or unintentional, the video sort of conspicuously doesn’t give a good side-view of just how leveled and composed the F350 rear end looks in comparison

the way the CT behaves with that weight in the back is surprising to me for what is supposed to be a load-leveling air suspension

my guess: this air suspension is a compromise between towing and other behaviors (eg ability to lift the truck to dumb heights), which arrives at the 11K limit

put differently, people shouldn’t be confused that *this* adaptive air system is analogous to the types of adaptive leveling air systems seen on big haulers. Just like the word “bicycle” doesn’t mean all bicycles are similarly purpose-built, neither does “air suspension”




Otherwise, more generally, I’ll very much look forward to a good independent reviewer replicating this test

In particular, put all the trucks in identically spec’d tires (including PSI) and *then* run the test


All these trucks are so powerful they can pull such a sled very well.

Ultimate results, however, come down significantly to being traction-limited and contact patch dependent. (Notice Tesla didn’t run an F350 dually)


So, I’m not surprised (or too shocked) to see a truck on 35”x12” mudd-ish tires (with unknown PSI at test), do better than all the trucks 🛻 on their stock tires.



Not to mention, the CyberTruck as spec’d is over $100K

Lots of F350 dually’s at that price, if your day to day involves sled pull competitions


But hey, companies all do their own BS marketing stunts

 

[Dave Miller]

I’ve got a pretty good guess



While this was a far better demonstration than the 2019 tug-of-war, I think it was still pretty silly and misleading - and also showed some bizarre thingsthat left me with question marks

like, did anyone else notice how the CyberTruck’s tail end seemed completely swamped - and ANYTHING but load-leveled?

watch the video at the ~2seconds just before and at point the CyberTruck begins the pull, and the tail end goes from raised to swamped in a not ideal way

and whether intentional or unintentional, the video sort of conspicuously doesn’t give a good side-view of just how leveled and composed the F350 rear end looks in comparison

the way the CT behaves with that weight in the back is surprising to me for what is supposed to be a load-leveling air suspension

my guess: this air suspension is a compromise between towing and other behaviors (eg ability to lift the truck to dumb heights), which arrives at the 11K limit

put differently, people shouldn’t be confused that *this* adaptive air system is analogous to the types of adaptive leveling air systems seen on big haulers. Just like the word “bicycle” doesn’t mean all bicycles are similarly purpose-built, neither does “air suspension”




Otherwise, more generally, I’ll very much look forward to a good independent reviewer replicating this test

In particular, put all the trucks in identically spec’d tires (including PSI) and *then* run the test


All these trucks are so powerful they can pull such a sled very well.

Ultimate results, however, come down significantly to being traction-limited and contact patch dependent. (Notice Tesla didn’t run an F350 dually)


So, I’m not surprised (or too shocked) to see a truck on 35”x12” mudd-ish tires (with unknown PSI at test), do better than all the trucks 🛻 on their stock tires.



Not to mention, the CyberTruck as spec’d is over $100K

Lots of F350 dually’s at that price, if your day to day involves sled pull competitions


But hey, companies all do their own BS marketing stunts

The trick is in the quickness off the line. The key is going further before the load moves closer to the hitch and the truck. So since the diesel takes a while to spool up the weight has shifted up the trailer closer to the truck before it hits top speed. With the instant tourq of the Cyberbeast it's way down the track before that weight hits.
I think Tesla should offer a tow package maybe heavier weight rated tires and bigger breaks that might add a thousand pounds or more to the rating.

 

[cvalue13]

So since the diesel takes a while to spool up the weight has shifted up the trailer closer to the truck before it hits top speed.

Yeah, the instant torque of BEV is always going to crush an ICE pull off the line

it’s later in the power curve the ICE can make up ground in real world

sled pulls will be forever ICE-disadvantages for the reasons you state

 

[Rutrow]

The trick is in the quickness off the line. The key is going further before the load moves closer to the hitch and the truck. So since the diesel takes a while to spool up the weight has shifted up the trailer closer to the truck before it hits top speed. With the instant tourq of the Cyberbeast it's way down the track before that weight hits.
I think Tesla should offer a tow package maybe heavier weight rated tires and bigger breaks that might add a thousand pounds or more to the rating.

Quickness won't help. The speed of the weight tray is driven/determined by the wheels of the sled. The weight travels forward slower for slower vehicles, faster for faster vehicles.

The inertia of the trailer will help for vehicles that get the sled moving faster, but the CyberTruck isn't farther down the track when the tray makes it to the end of the run.

 

[Keeney]

While this was a far better demonstration than the 2019 tug-of-war, I think it was still pretty silly and misleading - and also showed some bizarre thingsthat left me with question marks

like, did anyone else notice how the CyberTruck’s tail end seemed completely swamped - and ANYTHING but load-leveled?

watch the video at the ~2seconds just before and at point the CyberTruck begins the pull, and the tail end goes from raised to swamped in a not ideal way

and whether intentional or unintentional, the video sort of conspicuously doesn’t give a good side-view of just how leveled and composed the F350 rear end looks in comparison

In a fair sled pull, there is a specified drawbar height (typically 20") The tow vehicle is not supposed to be pulling upwards on the front of the sled more than that angle.
If CT is running its air suspension to raise the connection point up above 20", its pulling upwards on the sled more than is allowed.

Lowering the back or letting the rear suspension go soft might also be a bit of a gimmick as it moves the virtual tow point ahead of the rear axle. Not sure about the physics of that, but reading typical sled pull rules, its not allowed.

Also, in competitive sled pulling, there are weight classes. and all the trucks/tractors are ballasted up to the same weight (else they are just throwing away their chances).
If its stock v. stock and not weight equalized, the results will be skewed by which truck is the heaviest out of the box.

So if the pull is a fair contest, the CT may just be setup better for sled pull because of its high torque at low wheel speeds and flat torque curve, its tow point being closer to its rear axle and its overall weight distribution. The locking front Diff likely helps a bit, too.

There are good reasons locomotives are electric.

 

[Bill D]

I was toying with the idea of using a weight distribution hitch for an RV...just for added safety. Do you think Cybertruck will accommodate this? I hadn't thought about frame attachment points.

BTW, I did see somewhere in the UI an electric brake controller

Here is a picture I captured from a You Tube

video showing the CT using a Weight Distrobution / Anti Sway system on a trailer.

 

[lowtek]

Has anyone seen whether there is an integrated trailer brake controller?

There is, it's on one of the screenshots somewhere ... a typical brake gain controller

 

[cvalue13]

In a fair sled pull, there is a specified drawbar height (typically 20") The tow vehicle is not supposed to be pulling upwards on the front of the sled more than that angle.
If CT is running its air suspension to raise the connection point up above 20", its pulling upwards on the sled more than is allowed.

Lowering the back or letting the rear suspension go soft might also be a bit of a gimmick as it moves the virtual tow point ahead of the rear axle. Not sure about the physics of that, but reading typical sled pull rules, its not allowed.

Also, in competitive sled pulling, there are weight classes. and all the trucks/tractors are ballasted up to the same weight (else they are just throwing away their chances).
If its stock v. stock and not weight equalized, the results will be skewed by which truck is the heaviest out of the box.

So if the pull is a fair contest, the CT may just be setup better for sled pull because of its high torque at low wheel speeds and flat torque curve, its tow point being closer to its rear axle and its overall weight distribution. The locking front Diff likely helps a bit, too.

There are good reasons locomotives are electric.

thanks for all that

shouldn’t we also not forget the 35”x12” mudders it’s on, and PSI?

 

[Keeney]

thanks for all that

shouldn’t we also not forget the 35”x12” mudders it’s on, and PSI?

Probably those tires/wheels help a bit, yes.

I notice in the video that they use a receiver hitch setup with adjustable height. Presumably they are setting them all to 20" from the ground. Sothey seem at least somewhat aware of the rules.

The squat of the CT may be more a function of its longer travel rear suspension and spring rate vs a 1 ton F350that likely is setup with much stiffer rear springs and shorter total travel (not adjustable height suspension). Maybe they disabled the auto-leveling functionality of the CT?

Sponsored