Honoring Original Estimated Pricing

[Deleted member 3316]

You quoted the reason in your above post.

Here’s a refesher:





Starting to see why you avoid numbers.

This is entirely unrealistic. After a year, there will be a healthy used market for the truck. That’s not “Scalpers”, that’s people who own a Cybertruck but can’t afford it, or who lost their job, or just can’t park it.

In any case. If there will be scalpers after 250,000 trucks are sold, inserting a bunch of rich people with wads of cash in front of me will make even less difference.

This is getting ridiculous… do you honestly this 2nd hand prices are going to be less than new after just 12months? When there is a reservation backlog of probably 1million people? Plus people without reservations….

Let’s forget about the validity of whether I’m wrong or not, it’s not worth us discussing the probability and definition of scalping.

What is your understanding of the market strategy I’m suggesting because it doesn’t appear you actually read what I’m suggesting.

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[CyberGus]

Do you think Tesla understands how to fulfill a reservation?

 

[Crissa]

Scalping has zero impact on my deliver date and zero impact on what I pay. You are tilting at some bizarro windmill with no basis.

This is actually wrong: If Tesla does nothing against scalpers, they will buy as many vehicles as possible and pocket the difference. Scalpers will also do their darnedest to slow the delivery process to extract the most profit.

So scalpers do push back your delivery date.

What scalpers can do to delay/ slow delivery is—not-a-fucking-thing.

No, they can put in lots of reservations (and as we know, did) and they can slow-boat their pick up dates. They've totally done this in the past, which is one reason why Tesla cuts people off.

Do I think they'll be a big problem? No. Are they no effect? No, they have an effect. They raise the cost to Tesla by being annoying.

For other things which don't have such high transfer costs - like event tickets - scalpers reduce the per-sales costs. But this is the opposite when it involves transferring titles and such that can't be done in bulk.

So should Tesla cut off resellers? Yes.

Should they raise the prices on reservation holders? Definitely a bad idea. Because it won't hurt scalpers.

-Crissa

 

[Crissa]

*****, maybe you shouldn't thumbs up my posts 'cause I definitely don't agree with you on this topic.

The plans you've put forward would only hurt Tesla, whereas a 'one per customer' and then checking where the money comes from and if those end up on the resale market and cutting them off if they do will probably be sufficient.

Will some get scalped? Sure.

Should they encourage it? No.

Do they need to screw us over to do it? Definitely not.

-Crissa

 

[Deleted member 3316]

They've totally done this in the past, which is one reason why Tesla cuts people off.

Exactly, however this is a retroactive response, it does little to stop people doing it once. What does the person with 2 reservations care if they are cut off from buying a product if the second paid for the first? They are already cut off they couldn’t buy within 3 years anyway.

They raise the cost to Tesla by being annoying.

This is the issue I’m trying (and failing) to highlight.

I’m suggesting a way for Tesla to retain value of revenue usually taken in the second hand market.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

*****, maybe you shouldn't thumbs up my posts 'cause I definitely don't agree with you on this topic.

The plans you've put forward would only hurt Tesla, whereas a 'one per customer' and then checking where the money comes from and if those end up on the resale market and cutting them off if they do will probably be sufficient.

Will some get scalped? Sure.

Should they encourage it? No.

Do they need to screw us over to do it? Definitely not.

-Crissa

What don’t you agree with exactly?
Why do you think I’m suggesting Tesla should screw us over? There is some very deep misunderstanding here.

 

[Ogre]

This is getting ridiculous… do you honestly this 2nd hand prices are going to be less than new after just 12months? When there is a reservation backlog of probably 1million people? Plus people without reservations….

There are a million reservations for the Cybertruck, but not all of those people can afford the higher prices. Interest rates for used car loans are higher, further limiting the number of potential buyers. As more people become owners of the Cybertruck, the supply of used vehicles increases, and the premium for flipping them decreases. The idea that a million people are willing to pay a an huge premium for a Cybertruck is silly.

The whole reason there is such a huge order book for the Cybertruck is because it is affordable. Take that away and all of the demand vanishes.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

The whole reason there is such a huge order book for the Cybertruck is because it is affordable. Take that away and all of the demand vanishes.

This is infinitely debatable depending on how you define affordable. It’s really not worth us discussing because we have not been able to discuss counterfactuals up to this point. I’m pretty sure we agree that a linear decrease in price leads to an exponential increase in demand.

As you are still responding, there’s two ways this discussion can go;

What price would Cybertruck sell for if supply was infinite instead of demand?

Or

What is your understanding of the market strategy I’m suggesting because it doesn’t appear you actually read what I’m suggesting.

 

[Ogre]

This is actually wrong: If Tesla does nothing against scalpers, they will buy as many vehicles as possible and pocket the difference. Scalpers will also do their darnedest to slow the delivery process to extract the most profit.

Not sure why you are repeating this nonsense.

“Slow the delivery process” HOW? They can slow their own delivery process. Aside from having an existing reservation ahead of me, there is no way they can slow my delivery process. This is all fear and paranoia.

No, they can put in lots of reservations (and as we know, did) and they can slow-boat their pick up dates. They've totally done this in the past, which is one reason why Tesla cuts people off.

You are talking about things in the past.

I am talking about things in the future.

There is a difference.

I hope Tesla does what they can about scalpers. In particular I think they should limit the number of deliveries that go to the same person/ household. But I’d prefer they did it without screwing over other reservation holders as the ideas under discussion at the moment do.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

I hope Tesla does what they can about scalpers. In particular I think they should limit the number of deliveries that go to the same person/ household. But I’d prefer they did it without screwing over other reservation holders as the ideas under discussion at the moment do.

Can you not see the hypocrisy in this statement?

Limiting to one per customer is not honouring the reservation list.

You hope Tesla does what they can about scalpers without screwing over genuine customers… here’s an idea….

https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/cybercatch22-demand-vs-delay.8179/

 

[Ogre]

This is infinitely debatable depending on how you define affordable. It’s really not worth us discussing because we have not been able to discuss counterfactuals up to this point.

Everything with you is infinitely debatable.

The number of people who can afford the monthly payment on cars of particular prices is fairly well established. You can look it up if you take 30 seconds. Caution: It involves numbers.

What price would Cybertruck sell for if supply was infinite instead of demand?

Again. There is not “Infinite supply” this is your inane construct.

Your question doesn’t have enough information. Is there competition? Is there potential competition? What is the cost of manufacture? What is the motivation of the person who owns the resource?

What is your understanding of the market strategy I’m suggesting because it doesn’t appear you actually read what I’m suggesting.

How about you spell out your idea using numbers and we can get at least a vague idea of what that is?

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Again. There is not “Infinite supply” this is your inane construct.

Your question doesn’t have enough information. Is there competition? Is there potential competition? What is the cost of manufacture? What is the motivation of the person who owns the resource?

You clearly don’t understand the point of the question so there’s no point in discussing it. Counterfactuals are just too hard for some people I guess.

How about you spell out your idea using numbers and we can get at least a vague idea of what that is?

How about you read it first.

The numbers are an irrelevant strawman because you can put whatever numbers you like into to it.
We are working from unknowns, any number I give you, you will debate incessantly.

This is clearly beyond your comprehension. You should either go read through the thread and think about it or ask a friend to explain what you don’t understand.

I’m not going to spoon feed a child that just spits out their vegetables.

 

[charliemagpie]

1. There is a limit to the top end market segment. There will be record-breaking deals newspapers like writing about. It will be exhausted quick enough.

2. If there is a long wait time, good luck to existing owners who want to sell early for genuine reasons. as the second hand market will be strong.
I wouldn't sell to pocket 10 grand .... Maybe some might...but the numbers imo are relatively small. Moot

3. What happens in the second hand market has no effect on Tesla production plans.

The best way to avoid a fiasco is for Tesla to say if required, they can easily scale to 500,000+ as they ramp. That will slow scalping.

 

[Ogre]

How about you read it first.

No numbers.

You just need to fill in the blank: Tesla should auction the first ___,___ trucks to Johnny come lately with a fat wallet.

PS you apparently don’t know what a straw man is either.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

No numbers.

PS you apparently don’t know what a straw man is either.

A strawman is a type of logical fallacy where someone misrepresents their opponent's argument in order to make it easier to attack or dismiss.

In this context, if someone asks for quantifiable numbers when discussing a strategy, it could be an attempt to create a strawman by implying that their opponent's argument is not valid or complete without specific numerical data.

The person making this request may be attempting to shift the focus of the discussion away from the broader merits of the strategy and towards a narrow aspect that may not be central to the issue at hand.

This can be a way of avoiding a more nuanced and complex discussion of the topic, or of simply dismissing an opposing viewpoint without engaging with it honestly.

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