Range Extender take rate ~25%?

[HaulingAss]

for the most part, most truck owners need to tow, not to mention Tesla seems very quiet on the details of the truck such as specs and dimensions. Most people are finding these details from “leaks or these Tesla fanboys” and not from Tesla directly.

No, most truck owners don't tow anything on a regular basis, in fact, most never tow anything further than around their local area. The Cybertruck will have superior tow dynamics due to it's inherent stiffness vs. a traditional mild steel ladder frame.

Tesla does publish specs here (scroll to the bottom of the page):
CYBERTRUCK | Tesla

Weights, dimensions, ranges, performance figures, volumes, charging speeds, etc. What do you want to know?

the only thing this truck has going for it is that it is made by Tesla, and it is so polarizing at the moment.

No, people want the Cybertruck primarily for it's specs, durability and capabilities. Sure, the fact that it's made by Tesla gives buyers confidence the software will be the best in the industry, and that it will be a well-engineered piece of kit, but other than the confidence the Tesla name imparts, and the easy access to Superchargers, most people don't care who actually makes it.

I think the fact that it's polarizing is a minor component of why most people want one for themselves. The polarizing appearance probably dissudes as many buyers as it attracts.

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[greggertruck]

@Jhodgesatmb

from another thread by gregger but relevant to our discussion above from yeaterday




but for clarification from @greggertruck :

Are you certain he was talking about Foundation units and not the showroom unit?

because I saw on xwitter you saying the showroom units are Foundation units, but they’re not

The Mesa truck, and all these recent trucks, are FS trucks

They’re production.

 

[cvalue13]

The Mesa truck, and all these recent trucks, are FS trucks

They’re production.

I’m just not clear what you’re talking about

contrary to what you just wrote in the quote above, your quote from the other thread reads “The guy at Mesa told me the foundation series truck isn’t a production truck yesterday.”

meanwhile, the 20 original showroom trucks, are definitively not FS

Unclear how that fact relates exactly to your references “all these recent trucks” or “Mesa truck”


Very discombobulated

not at all helped by the background state of you having flexible ideas of what “production” means - you’ve continued to maintain that ‘production’ began back in June

 

[greggertruck]

I’m just not clear what you’re talking about

contrary to what you just wrote in the quote above, your quote from the other thread reads “The guy at Mesa told me the foundation series truck isn’t a production truck yesterday.”

meanwhile, the 20 original showroom trucks, are definitively not FS

Unclear how that fact relates exactly to your references “all these recent trucks” or “Mesa truck”


Very discombobulated

not at all helped by the background state of you having flexible ideas of what “production” means - you’ve continued to maintain that ‘production’ began back in June

Production began in April, when the first machines came online. I was corrected on that at the event.

These FS displays are what I’m strictly referring to. Those are production trucks. Mesa has an FS truck. The guy at Mesa claimed it isn’t production. Even though it’s an FS truck.

 

[Gigahorse]

80 miles? Towing some Russian tanks?

280 miles of range. subtract towing efficiency loss. it is currently December and not very warm.
hook up something that is close to tow capacity and I think 100 miles is optimistic. which unless you are towing something around the block is bad

 

[cvalue13]

Production began in April, when the first machines came online. I was corrected on that at the event.

"pilot production," sure

but that is not "production"

the person speaking to you at the vent appears to have been speaking in as loose and non-technical terms as you seem to stubbornly clung to

"production" is a technical/industry/financial reporting term of art, and there is a reason that even as of Q3 earnings call the Cybertruck line was not listed as "in production" but instead "pilot production"

And the discussion being had, is that it seems possible that technical production still has not begun.

What I know independently and for certain, is that the production line still is not commissioned and wont be until sometime in or past Q1, nor are current builds yet utilizing all production parts or installation. Tesla hadn't even built an in-house CT battery pack until last week.

 

[cvalue13]

These FS displays are what I’m strictly referring to. Those are production trucks.

Again, I can't make heads or tails of either (A) what you're intending to say, or (B) your ability to understand what you've been told, until you find some interest in understanding the basic terminology at issue here

First, I dont know what you mean by "FS displays" - those original display units are these:

Showroom (1200-1219)

20

20

They are all AWD, with white door/dash trim, but not all of the trim features of a FS unit - they are one-off hybrid builds for showrooms, that dont have all the same trim as a Foundation Series


And we've established that you're unclear or unable to describe or interpret from others what a 'production' truck is


the only thing that's left seemingly somewhat clear is when you say:

Mesa has an FS truck. The guy at Mesa claimed it isn’t production. Even though it’s an FS truck.

so does the Mesa truck have the engraved stainless, suede dash, and is it an AWD or a Beast?

because when the guy at Mesa says it isn't production, because according to your tweet:




the Mesa unit is vin 5XX within the Foundation Series, which your guy is saying isnt a "production" unit

which takes us back to the original point: I do not think Tesla is yet into technical production, and that Tesla is orchestrating these FS builds as somehow not yet triggering technical production for purposes of regulatory and financial reporting purposes

 

[greggertruck]

Again, I can't make heads or tails of either (A) what you're intending to say, or (B) your ability to understand what you've been told, until you find some interest in understanding the basic terminology at issue here

First, I dont know what you mean by "FS displays" - those original display units are these:

Showroom (1200-1219)

20

20

They are all AWD, with white door/dash trim, but not all of the trim features of a FS unit - they are one-off hybrid builds for showrooms, that dont have all the same trim as a Foundation Series


And we've established that you're unclear or unable to describe or interpret from others what a 'production' truck is


the only thing that's left seemingly somewhat clear is when you say:



so does the Mesa truck have the engraved stainless, suede dash, and is it an AWD or a Beast?

because when the guy at Mesa says it isn't production, because according to your tweet:




the Mesa unit is vin 5XX within the Foundation Series, which your guy is saying isnt a "production" unit

which takes us back to the original point: I do not think Tesla is yet into technical production, and that Tesla is orchestrating these FS builds as somehow not yet triggering technical production for purposes of regulatory and financial reporting purposes

Have you ever considered, even for a brief second…

You’re the ONLY one that’s calling the FS preproduction? Like literally no one else.

I know what the chart says from October… “pilot production”.

Dogg…. They’re selling production vehicles. These FS are production. I’ve never been talking about the 18 pre Thanksgiving displays. I’ve been referring to the FS displays from the last few days. Which I believe it’s clear.

Fwiw I’ve just thought it was not relevant here, second guy there later said that will eventually go to a customer but it’s a display for now.

First guy was who I’d talked to before it went up and it was in the wash bay

Guy: “it’s not a production truck, it will be on display tomorrow”

Me: “Even with the FS on the side?”

Guy: “Well… it’s not a customers truck”

Point is, in the entirely separate thread regarding “hey call the service centers, they can tell you when it’s coming”…. They can’t. And they do not know. Do not harass them.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I’m just not clear what you’re talking about

contrary to what you just wrote in the quote above, your quote from the other thread reads “The guy at Mesa told me the foundation series truck isn’t a production truck yesterday.”

meanwhile, the 20 original showroom trucks, are definitively not FS

Unclear how that fact relates exactly to your references “all these recent trucks” or “Mesa truck”


Very discombobulated

not at all helped by the background state of you having flexible ideas of what “production” means - you’ve continued to maintain that ‘production’ began back in June

You have said many times that there is a huge difference between vehicles being built at GigaAustin, especially in their naming.

- First there was the distinction between those on the low-volume line (beta prototypes) from the high-volume line (release candidates). I am leaving out all of the pre-production vehicles made elsewhere.
- Then there were the pre-production release candidates and manufacturing release candidates
- Then there were Foundation Series production vehicles but apparently not completely certified
- Someday there will be the fully-certified non-FS production vehicles

All of these were vehicles were made at GigaAustin so technically I suppose, by the definition that @greggertruck is using (and those on the line), they are production vehicles. They just aren't certified-for-sale production vehicles.

We know that all of the vehicles in showrooms prior to the delivery event, and for the most part still, were release candidates. It may be true that the truck in Mesa is an FS vehicle. All of these things could be true and @greggertruck could be completely correct and you would be correct. It is all about where the reference point is made.

For my money there is no longer a need to refer to release candidates or any vehicle made prior to the FS series. We are on the slow ramp to mass production and the only distinctions 'I' need to see is when the switch is made to fully-certified vehicles, and when the switchover is made to non-FS vehicles, though it is really more of a personal interest.

 

[cvalue13]

You’re the ONLY one that’s calling the FS preproduction

we're literally talking about how a Tesla rep at the Mesa store just told you that an FS VIN 5XX isn't a production unit

meanwhile...

Have you ever considered, even for a brief second…

You’re the ONLY one that’s calling the FS preproduction? Like literally no one else.

have *you* ever considered that people aren't talking about and don't understand this because influencers like yourself have been exclaiming "PRODUCTION HAS BEGUN" since back in July, and refusing to reconcile their incorrect statements with TESLA'S OWN DISCLOSURES...

in other words, people aren't discussing this principally because cats like you have spent 6 months confusing people and telling them something incorrect while playing "insider" ... often based on patently incorrect information

it's not at all surprising to me that people are confused about this, which is why for 6 months I've been telling you details and technical terms matter



to wit:

I know what the chart says from October… “pilot production”.

you do not appear to know what the chart says, because you just moments ago continue to claim that 'production started in April'

which if you knew what the chart says from October, you would know is both incorrect and impossible that production started in april if they're still in pilot production in October

long story short: you just consistently come across as confused, disinterested in accuracy, and all-together conflicted in motivation towards what's clickable more than what's factual

 

[cvalue13]

All of these were vehicles were made at GigaAustin so technically I suppose, by the definition that @greggertruck is using (and those on the line), they are production vehicles. They just aren't certified-for-sale production vehicles.

that's not the relevant distinction for technical 'production'

gregger uses the word 'production' as synonymous with "built at GFTX" - see eg his comment above that 'production' began in April, that a truck leaving GFTX in July was a 'production' truck (despite that truck being an early Beta built in Fremont back in 2022)



for your purposes, you don't and shouldn't really care about the distinction between a truck built in 'pilot production' vs 'production' - because all you understandably care about is, "when will i get an order for either an FS or a normal retail truck". All good

I separately care about, for regulatory and financial reporting purposes, when Tesla has or will begin technical production for regulatory and financial reporting purposes. That definitively had not yet occurred as of Tesla's Q3 report in October.

Regardless, not until after October did Tesla begin building FS trucks for the Nov. 30 delivery event. So the Q3 report doesn't tell us definitively about the reg/fin status of the FS trucks.

Which is why you and I have been discussing the various signals that make it unclear as to whether the FS units/GFTX line is yet treated for reg/fin purposes as 'production.' I don't know for certain, but I see various signals that suggest they're not.

which is why it was relevant to double click on a Tesla employee saying that an FS unit sitting in Mesa, with a 5XX VIn, was not a production vehicle. That person could just be as confused/non-technical as is gregger, and so it doesn't mean much.

or they are saying something intereting (to me, but maybe not you)

 

[greggertruck]

we're literally talking about how a Tesla rep at the Mesa store just told you that an FS VIN 5XX isn't a production unit

meanwhile...



have *you* ever considered that people aren't talking about and don't understand this because influencers like yourself have been exclaiming "PRODUCTION HAS BEGUN" since back in July, and refusing to reconcile their incorrect statements with TESLA'S OWN DISCLOSURES...

in other words, people aren't discussing this principally because cats like you have spent 6 months confusing people and telling them something incorrect while playing "insider" ... often based on patently incorrect information

it's not at all surprising to me that people are confused about this, which is why for 6 months I've been telling you details and technical terms matter



to wit:



you do not appear to know what the chart says, because you just moments ago continue to claim that 'production started in April'

which if you knew what the chart says from October, you would know is both incorrect and impossible that production started in april if they're still in pilot production in October

long story short: you just consistently come across as confused, disinterested in accuracy, and all-together conflicted in motivation towards what's clickable more than what's factual

Weird, because I have a pretty great track record all together of bringing solid information. You and I do not agree on what production means, clearly. It is what it is. But the employees working on it, not assembly guys - engineers corrected me when I said June a few weeks ago, and said “no we have been doing some level of production since April. That’s when the first machines came online.”

Agree to disagree. But over all trying to discredit me is kind of insane man.

 

[greggertruck]

that's not the relevant distinction for technical 'production'

gregger uses the word 'production' as synonymous with "built at GFTX" - see eg his comment above that 'production' began in April, that a truck leaving GFTX in July was a 'production' truck (despite that truck being an early Beta built in Fremont back in 2022)



for your purposes, you don't and shouldn't really care about the distinction between a truck built in 'pilot production' vs 'production' - because all you understandably care about is, "when will i get an order for either an FS or a normal retail truck". All good

I separately care about, for regulatory and financial reporting purposes, when Tesla has or will begin technical production for regulatory and financial reporting purposes. That definitively had not yet occurred as of Tesla's Q3 report in October.

Regardless, not until after October did Tesla begin building FS trucks for the Nov. 30 delivery event. So the Q3 report doesn't tell us definitively about the reg/fin status of the FS trucks.

Which is why you and I have been discussing the various signals that make it unclear as to whether the FS units/GFTX line is yet treated for reg/fin purposes as 'production.' I don't know for certain, but I see various signals that suggest they're not.

which is why it was relevant to double click on a Tesla employee saying that an FS unit sitting in Mesa, with a 5XX VIn, was not a production vehicle. That person could just be as confused/non-technical as is gregger, and so it doesn't mean much.

or they are saying something intereting (to me, but maybe not you)

Please quit trying to imply I’m stupid. Getting a little weird.

 

[cvalue13]

Weird, because I have a pretty great track record all together of bringing solid information.

you tell people that, and yourself that - but only based on the fact that you neither understand nor correct your errors

just for one example: the substance of this thread... you continue to say nonsensical stuff like 'production began in April' and have refused to ever correct your exclamations from back in July that production began

to wit:

But the employees working on it, not assembly guys - engineers corrected me when I said June a few weeks ago, and said “no we have been doing some level of production since April. That’s when the first machines came online.”

you don't seem to be able to grasp that i havent disagreed with the above - but instead made the distinction that what THEY are saying and what YOU are understanding are two different things

but now you clarify they said "some level of production"

no duh.

they've been building things at GFTX .. including the pilot line itself, since then

But over all trying to discredit me is kind of insane man.

I'm not *trying to discredit you*... I'm pointing out the inconsistencies and errors in things you say

what discredits you, if anything, is your disinterest in those errors/inconsistencies ... that's your choice

lease quit trying to imply I’m stupid. Getting a little weird.

I'm not implying you're "stupid", and to suggest that is more of the same

I'm saying exactly the words and concepts I intend:

confused, disinterested in accuracy, and all-together conflicted in motivation towards what's clickable more than what's factual

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Please quit trying to imply I’m stupid. Getting a little weird.

Aren't we all on the same side here? Is there something wrong with saying that trucks made in the GFTX factory are production vehicles? They were 'produced' at GFTX. If it is a naming thing @cvalue13 is concerned about then can we agree that a production vehicle, henceforth at least, would be a vehicle with a Monroney sticker? @cvalue13 is right that, for me at least, it is about what truck can I order, purchase, and drive, because that is what most of us out here care about. He has other interests and that is fine. And yes, your information has historically been great. Both of you.

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