Range getting better and better

[henchman24]

I like the OEM All-Terrain tires for my summer usage because I don't change my tires between different environments (only seasonally). So, for the summer they are a good all-rounder, smooth and quiet with good road manners, good efficiency, more flat resistant than the All-Season and I can make them work quite well off-road during the dry months without much concern for sidewall cuts and punctures.

I've heard people who have had both on a Cybertruck say the OEM All-Seasons have a harsher ride quality (vs. OEM All-Terrain) on less than perfect roads. And I do a lot of rugged roads and trails in the summer. To be honest, I don't think the OEM All-seasons would be suitable for the kind of surfaces I would take them on.

In the end, tires are always a compromise, you have to pick tires that make the most sense for your driving environment and how you use them.

I 100% agree all tires are a compromise and they need to be tailored to each use case. Never a one-sized fits all situation. I personally took off the AS tires ASAP since I deal with a lot of snow, ice, and ~20% of my miles are off pavement. I wouldn't want them for any of those situations. Though crusing around town or on the interstate, they are a far better tire than any AT option (they look horrendous though).

AT have higher load rating than AS though...

The AS have enough load rating for the vast majority of activities while being better on-road for pretty much everything else. For on-road stuff, a lower load rating might actually be preferable. Not as stiff for a more compliant ride and more predictable grip. Lighter for more efficiency and even smoother ride. Tend to wear a bit better too (though that difference is minimal). The load rating really matters for heavy payloads or a lot of tongue weight (only one of these applies to the CT). Which the CT can have a lot of payload and you can go beyond that capability on AS tires... but it would take ~1900lbs of payload plus people to do so. Most won't be pushing things that far. We're talking a whole bed full of rock and 3+ people to hit that number. On tongue weight, you shouldn't be adding any more than what AS tires can handle anyway... that limitation is far lower than what either tire will allow.

Sponsored

 

[mongo]

The AS have enough load rating for the vast majority of activities while being better on-road for pretty much everything else. For on-road stuff, a lower load rating might actually be preferable. Not as stiff for a more compliant ride and more predictable grip. Lighter for more efficiency and even smoother ride. Tend to wear a bit better too (though that difference is minimal). The load rating really matters for heavy payloads or a lot of tongue weight (only one of these applies to the CT). Which the CT can have a lot of payload and you can go beyond that capability on AS tires... but it would take ~1900lbs of payload plus people to do so. Most won't be pushing things that far. We're talking a whole bed full of rock and 3+ people to hit that number. On tongue weight, you shouldn't be adding any more than what AS tires can handle anyway... that limitation is far lower than what either tire will allow.

Reax axle capacity and total payload
Beast AS: 1,482 with 2,000
AWD AS: 1,662 with 2,220

Beast AT: 1,702 with 2,270
AWD AT: 1,883 with 2,500

There are alternative tires with high load ratings.

 

[henchman24]

Reax axle capacity and total payload
Beast AS: 1,482 with 2,000
AWD AS: 1,662 with 2,220

Beast AT: 1,702 with 2,270
AWD AT: 1,883 with 2,500

There are alternative tires with high load ratings.

I acknowledged that lower rating. I'm saying that the vast majority of people will never approach those load ratings with the AS tires (2000lbs is quite a bit of payload) and that compromise is worth it if you primarily drive on-road. There are AS tires with higher load ratings too. All tires are a compromise, and people should select what fits their use case the most.

 

[mongo]

I acknowledged that lower rating. I'm saying that the vast majority of people will never approach those load ratings with the AS tires (2000lbs is quite a bit of payload) and that compromise is worth it if you primarily drive on-road. There are AS tires with higher load ratings too. All tires are a compromise, and people should select what fits their use case the most.

Sure, I was pointing out (poorly) that no variant can handle 1,900 in the bed. AT is a 20% axle capacity for Beast.

 

[henchman24]

Sure, I was pointing out (poorly) that no variant can handle 1,900 in the bed. AT is a 20% axle capacity for Beast.

I stated payload, which people have a misconception of bed… but is all weight (including people). No vehicle is rated solely in the bed for payload and those amounts are a lot. Vast majority of people won’t approach those weights.

 

[mongo]

I stated payload, which people have a misconception of bed… but is all weight (including people). No vehicle is rated solely in the bed for payload and those amounts are a lot. Vast majority of people won’t approach those weights.

We're on the same page, but "a whole bed full of rock and 3+ people" is probably gonna overload it.
6'x4'x1' of gravel is 2,000 pounds on its own (tailgate is ~20 inch height).

 

[henchman24]

We're on the same page, but "a whole bed full of rock and 3+ people" is probably gonna overload it.
6'x4'x1' of gravel is 2,000 pounds on its own (tailgate is ~20 inch height).

Yeah we are, I was giving an example there of what would do it there. For all trucks it is pretty rare that people even get close to these capabilities.

 

[HaulingAss]

I stated payload, which people have a misconception of bed… but is all weight (including people). No vehicle is rated solely in the bed for payload and those amounts are a lot. Vast majority of people won’t approach those weights.

We don't need to select a tire that's good for most people, we need a tire that's good for our individual uses. And any individual's uses can vary widely and unpredictably from load to load. Just because my typical load is less than 1000 lbs. doesn't mean I never need a load capacity greater than that.

Here's the thing: My 2010 F-150's payload limit is only 1750 lb. and I've had it loaded beyond that by 400-1000 additional lbs. at least 15 times. Sure, it's driving dynamics with plain steel springs were substantially affected, but I had tires that were rated for the load. The tires are the most important part of any truck and I'm not about to change out the tires just because I need to haul a heavier load - the tires need to be up to the task that presents itself or I would have to make two trips.

The 2500 lb. payload capacity of the Cybertruck is high enough that I don't see the advantage of over-spec'ing the tires as much as I did on the F-150, but I also wouldn't want to nerf the truck with tires that had less capacity than the truck itself!

I've already exceeded the rear axle capacity of the Cybertruck at least two times while approaching the GVWR limit or slightly exceeding it. Thankfully I had the AT tires on both times and I could barely feel the load, even on a steep, curvy and rugged road. I've never experienced that before in any other truck. I also didn't have to worry about the tires being able to handle it. That's worth a lot to me because I don't swap out tires just because a heavier load than the tires can handle presents itself. I generally don't know a day in advance that I will want to haul a heavier load than the tires can handle. Why nerf the truck with under-spec'ed tires?

 

[soonerdy]

I have the core wheels with aftermarket ATs. I have a trip I make every couple weeks that is about 450mi. The core wheel covers vs open wheel with a center cap is about 6% more efficient at ~80-85mph with what I've experienced. Enough where I keep the core covers on now.

In my experience two things matter most with CT efficiency. Speed and temperature. With speed, simply keeping below 70 does a ton. Simply physics there, but the truck is remarkably efficient at lower speeds. With temps... if you're consistently above ~55-60, the truck is a lot more efficient. It doesn't tend to care about hotter temps, but low temps really hurt efficiency. The truck will work to keep the battery warmer as the chemistry used doesn't like the cold... as a tip, when below ~50 and certainly as you get into the 20s and 30s, chill mode helps efficiency quite a bit. It allows the pack to stay a bit colder.

You have me wondering if I need to prioritize putting the CT in the garage during the cold months (Oklahoma)?

 

[mongo]

You have me wondering if I need to prioritize putting the CT in the garage during the cold months (Oklahoma)?

If it's an attached garage, it could help.

 

[henchman24]

We don't need to select a tire that's good for most people, we need a tire that's good for our individual uses. And any individual's uses can vary widely and unpredictably from load to load. Just because my typical load is less than 1000 lbs. doesn't mean I never need a load capacity greater than that.

Here's the thing: My 2010 F-150's payload limit is only 1750 lb. and I've had it loaded beyond that by 400-1000 additional lbs. at least 15 times. Sure, it's driving dynamics with plain steel springs were substantially affected, but I had tires that were rated for the load. The tires are the most important part of any truck and I'm not about to change out the tires just because I need to haul a heavier load - the tires need to be up to the task that presents itself or I would have to make two trips.

The 2500 lb. payload capacity of the Cybertruck is high enough that I don't see the advantage of over-spec'ing the tires as much as I did on the F-150, but I also wouldn't want to nerf the truck with tires that had less capacity than the truck itself!

I've already exceeded the rear axle capacity of the Cybertruck at least two times while approaching the GVWR limit or slightly exceeding it. Thankfully I had the AT tires on both times and I could barely feel the load, even on a steep, curvy and rugged road. I've never experienced that before in any other truck. I also didn't have to worry about the tires being able to handle it. That's worth a lot to me because I don't swap out tires just because a heavier load than the tires can handle presents itself. I generally don't know a day in advance that I will want to haul a heavier load than the tires can handle. Why nerf the truck with under-spec'ed tires?

I'm not saying nerf anything. Utilizing factory AS tires would give plenty of payload for most people and be a better on-road tire than pretty much an AT tire. As you say, we need a tire for our individual use cases. Most people don't fall into needing good off-road tires or the most payload (which you can get AS tires that would max out the payload rating of the CT too).

On the CT the main difference in the payload ratings are the motors and tires, but there is far more that goes into the rating than just that. While you can get away with far exceeding these ratings on all vehicles (there is normally a large safety margin), it is never advisable. Frame/casting, brakes, cooling, etc all play a role. Just specing up a higher load rating tires doesn't mean payload increases.

You have me wondering if I need to prioritize putting the CT in the garage during the cold months (Oklahoma)?

I'd imagine that you'd get some benefit. Tesla keeps changing the snowflake temps, but certainly if it shows up, your battery is too cold for maximum performance and will work to heat up the pack. If you see a blue bar in the app or on the battery screen without the snowflake, the battery is also likely too cold (though this isn't 100%). This is where chill mode simply heats it up less.

Now real world, we're talking maybe 7-10% less efficient. If you're not utilizing the most of the range and going say 200+ mi in a day, I doubt it matters all that much. If you're going farther, after the first DC charge the battery will probably stay warm after as long the outside temps aren't super low. Simple factor of the 955 chemistry used.

 

[HaulingAss]

I'm not saying nerf anything. Utilizing factory AS tires would give plenty of payload for most people and be a better on-road tire than pretty much an AT tire.

Reducing the payload capacity is nerfing the payload capacity.

Maybe you don't know what it means to "nerf" something. The fact that YOU don't utilize the full capacity doesn't mean it wouldn't nerf it. When I was pointing out why I appreciate the all-around summer goodness of the OEM All-Terrain tires, I was speaking to your claim that the OEM AT tires "are not very good tires". Yes, they are good tires, you just don't need their range of capabilities.

It's not easy to make a tire that is this smooth and quiet, efficient, tough over sharp rocks, corners so well, and has such a high payload capacity.

 

[henchman24]

Reducing the payload capacity is nerfing the payload capacity.

Maybe you don't know what it means to "nerf" something. The fact that YOU don't utilize the full capacity doesn't mean it wouldn't nerf it. When I was pointing out why I appreciate the all-around summer goodness of the OEM All-Terrain tires, I was speaking to your claim that the OEM AT tires "are not very good tires". Yes, they are good tires, you just don't need their range of capabilities.

It's not easy to make a tire that is this smooth and quiet, efficient, tough over sharp rocks, corners so well, and has such a high payload capacity.

I know what nerf means. There are two ratings and Tesla has built the vehicle around the ratings.... they are just a different spiderweb. You can also get all seasons with a higher load rating than factory all terrain tires. Also, by your definition, you are nerfing drivability and safety by running all terrains over all seasons. They have less dry and wet traction afterall.

I utilize the capacity and I have a tire with a higher load rating than the factory all terrains (and are actually triple peak rated all terrains with kevlar bands, far more capable tires than the factory ATs). The factory all terrains are simply a very compromised tire that have the lowest possible capability of an all terrain. I clearly struck a chord with you on that and it must have offended you. Obviously that tire works for you, but that doesn't mean they are a great tire... there are far better and more capable all terrain options out there. Ones with better on and off road traction, better durability, can actually last more than 25-30k mi, tougher, more efficient, and actually can drive in mud/snow/ice conditions.

The statistics are very strong that the vast majority of truck buyers never approach these payload ratings. Thus if the capability is not used, it is better to have the spiderweb tilted to drivability, traction and range. For people who don't go off-road, they are better staying away from any all terrain option, especially the factory one.

 

[HaulingAss]

Obviously that tire works for you, but that doesn't mean they are a great tire... there are far better and more capable all terrain options out there. Ones with better on and off road traction, better durability, can actually last more than 25-30k mi, tougher, more efficient, and actually can drive in mud/snow/ice conditions.

LOL! It's all relative to what you need them to do! It's definitely a good tire for all the things it does competently. When you said, "the OEM ATs are not that good of a tire", comparing it to the All-Season, I can only assume you were looking at it from a passenger car perspective, I was looking at it as a truck. Yes, for doing truck things, for hauling heavy loads, towing or for travelling rugged mountain roads, the OEM All Terrain is the better summer tire. For softer, lighter use on paved roads, in the city without heavy loads, the OEM All-Season is the better summer tire. It's all relative to how hard you are going to use them.

The statistics are very strong that the vast majority of truck buyers never approach these payload ratings. Thus if the capability is not used, it is better to have the spiderweb tilted to drivability, traction and range. For people who don't go off-road, they are better staying away from any all terrain option, especially the factory one.

I'm a practical and experienced motorist. So, for me it's more about what works for my usage and can command a high level of trust to handle what's thrown at it. So, even without considering the differences in payload capabilities, I still like the OEM AT's for their toughness. In terms of being vulnerable to a bit of rough usage, the AT's have a lot more resistance to cuts, tears and flats (relative to lighter All-Season radials). I want my tires to be resistant to flats in general, and especially sidewall cuts. The All Season radials don't inspire as much confidence with how I would be using them in the summer, especially with a heavy load or on a steep, rugged road with sharp, loose rock. It sounds like they are fine for you, and that's great!

You are making the mistake of thinking everyone uses the truck as lightly as you. The All-Season OEM tires are great if that's all you need. That doesn't make the OEM All Terrain a worse tire or, as you put it, "not a very good tire". Every tire has it's uses. If you want to change tires all the time so the tire is always perfectly suited to each day's usage, that's fine by me, I want a good tire that works over the range of what I need it for, and I willing to make seasonal tire changes to achieve that.

 

[henchman24]

LOL! It's all relative to what you need them to do! It's definitely a good tire for all the things it does competently. When you said, "the OEM ATs are not that good of a tire", comparing it to the All-Season, I can only assume you were looking at it from a passenger car perspective, I was looking at it as a truck. Yes, for doing truck things, for hauling heavy loads, towing or for travelling rugged mountain roads, the OEM All Terrain is the better summer tire. For softer, lighter use on paved roads, in the city without heavy loads, the OEM All-Season is the better summer tire. It's all relative to how hard you are going to use them.



I'm a practical and experienced motorist. So, for me it's more about what works for my usage and can command a high level of trust to handle what's thrown at it. So, even without considering the differences in payload capabilities, I still like the OEM AT's for their toughness. In terms of being vulnerable to a bit of rough usage, the AT's have a lot more resistance to cuts, tears and flats (relative to lighter All-Season radials). I want my tires to be resistant to flats in general, and especially sidewall cuts. The All Season radials don't inspire as much confidence with how I would be using them in the summer, especially with a heavy load or on a steep, rugged road with sharp, loose rock. It sounds like they are fine for you, and that's great!

You are making the mistake of thinking everyone uses the truck as lightly as you. The All-Season OEM tires are great if that's all you need. That doesn't make the OEM All Terrain a worse tire or, as you put it, "not a very good tire". Every tire has it's uses. If you want to change tires all the time so the tire is always perfectly suited to each day's usage, that's fine by me, I want a good tire that works over the range of what I need it for, and I willing to make seasonal tire changes to achieve that.

at the bolded.

You're making the mistake of assuming I don't use the CT hard and as a truck. I'd be shocked if more than ~5% of people use the CT as hard as I do. I have an off grid cabin that is pretty much up a 4x4 trail to get to it. Sharp rocks that puncture tires (funny enough, a buddy of mine with the AT tires on his CT punctured a tire on the road to my cabin just last month... though he was probably at 5-6/32 tread), need clearance, need to haul ~250 gallons of water from ~6,000' elevation to just under 11,000' (do the math on that payload with an IBC tote, 2 people and 2 dogs), tow side by sides, going through a ton of snow in the winter (consistent 200+" of snow a year there), etc. I don't tow cars a ton anymore, but 4-5 times a year I'll pull an enclosed trailer with tools, tires, and a ~3500lb car (>8000 lbs total) for a few hundred miles. My truck is used harder than the vast majority of owners. I acknowledge that my use case is not everybody else's use case. I'm the outlier, not the norm.

While I use my CT hard (and have the tires for it), 60% of truck buyers never tow. 96% never tow 10k pounds. Under 20% actually have payloads, ever, above 1000 lbs. Most people will never see road rougher than a county maintained dirt road (which any all season is fine on). The vast majority of truck buyers don't push trucks anywhere near their capabilities, especially as half ton trucks have gotten so capable. This well known and studied about truck owners. If a person never drives on anything past a class 3 trail and doesn't ever have ~2000 lbs of payload, they are better off staying away from any AT tire. If they experience winter conditions, dedicated winter tires or finding an all weather tire is the best path.

None of this changes that the OEM AT tire is a compromised tire though. It is designed to give the minimum amount of capabilities to be classified as an AT tire while fitting the looks, noise level allowance, and hitting a range target (which is the top reason they have the tread shaved to 10/32" as the testing methods hate tread depth). I'm glad it fits your use case, but don't mistake that for it being a good AT tire compared to the overall AT market. It doesn't have good puncture resistance (low ply rating, 10/32" tread depth, no kevlar or similar material bands), it doesn't have comparatively good off-road traction, it isn't triple peak rated, it has poor tread life... good AT tires are something like K02/K03s, Wildpeak A/T3W, Open Country A/T III... or my own bias Nokian Outpost NAT. These tires are night and day compared to the OEM AT tires. The OEM AT tire is a slightly more capable tire than traditional all seasons, but isn't in the same realm as a good triple peak rated all terrain. The best designed ATs are as good on the road too. Now when you get to RTs or the most aggressive ATs, they have major on-road compromises that should factor in.

Sponsored